VladimirTarasov

Novoluhans'ke was in the neutral zone was it not?

That sounds like some really bad propaganda coming from the Ukrainian side... They sucked, but their units weren't really that worse than thrown together locals, operating under say Russian advisers... Majority of the units were barely trained, motivation is what kept them working most of the times. And let's not forget Ukraine sent in not only motor rifle troops but VDV units as well. Let's not throw away the laws of war... If the DPR was better it would have done better than they did during the time. Ukraine did heavily outnumber the separatist forces. You see... If Russia actually through forth a legitimate motor rifle battalion into that battle It'd be over way quicker than 4 months. The battle for the airport is more different than you'd expect. we're talking about something the size of a legitimate airport. It could have gone way faster if it was a legitimate Russian unit that undertook the task. Sure the Ukrainians were able to repel small platoon attacks during the initial raids however not much to be proud of, the Defender has certain undeniable advantages... Anyways there were pauses and ceasefires which dragged out the battle longer than it should have. Then of course once the separatists controlled the terminal, the Ukrainians launched a final assault if you remember. DPR repelled that as well, which ensured the victory of the DPR... So it's not a small victory you make it out to be, it was hard fought for and a symbolic victory.

Waste of money on their end, but still interesting.

I'm glad they can't, the government isn't the only thing that's holding them back from coming.

@JUAN DEAG Okay I know this, but typically this aggressive patrols are followed by offensive plans. I don't even see a counter-offensive being launched by the DPR. It just doesn't fit in correctly. What was there that couldn't be identified by drones... The Ukrainians at the start of these hostilities; state that there was assault. I've still yet to see any evidence that there was; now it's that the rebels attacked with small arms. There are many ways intelligence could have been gathered in this situation... The high light from Soviet Army: Operations and Tactics, are not for every case. In this case it would make no sense to recon like this if you aren't going to gather intelligence for an offensive... Reasons being: 1) You just initiated a battle 2) You are risking much more than the worth for this scenario Of course, every side exaggerates. But some things aren't exaggerated obviously. I'm willing to go by Ukraine's casualty count, but I'm still very skeptical of the DPR launching an attack first... Anyways, time will tell.

Yes I know of this, but that's not what our Ukrainian colleagues have been proposing, they said there was an actual offensive. Even then, if the recon unit was sent forth to reveal positions, why are there claims that an offensive has been repelled because that would be a feint... Rarely I have my doubts, but that's for another forum . That too, but the concentration and shear violence from it is enough to take down buildings fairly quickly. In CMBS, SOMETIMES of course not all the times; buildings take quite a beating and the defenders or attackers inside even come out surviving sometimes.

Thanks for the info, very interesting to know.

Not going to matter if the goal was to capture the objective... Heavy artillery attack with BMP Tank combo would be way more effective than just sending in some guys through the ground. If you think it was a probe to just take out some targets, then instead of risking soft infantry, it'd be better to initiate an artillery duel. I mean let's put ourselves in the shoes of the commander, you'd rather dismount your troops and send them on soft ground through a forest to attack, or would you rather send your armored vehicles and get some cohesion going. Could be a possibility, but highly unlikely, what's weird to me is the DPR hasn't launched a counter-offensive yet. They have enough forces to effectively try to do something, but they aren't. Weird IMO, maybe because most of this battle is in the neutral zone. IMO also depends on the observer and unit's training, as well as the artillery systems used. Ukrainians and DPR/LPR have used artillery very effectively before, God is on the side with the best artillery. I actually think the CM artillery should be more destructive than it is now, I've observed real Russian artillery fire missions and those things look accurate and devastating. I'm sure Ukrainians have used the artillery effective as well. Sounds realistic considering the intensive bombardment from both sides. I have a question, didn't Ukrainian soldiers get encircled at one point, and some attempts to break them out failed? How come the losses are so low.

A night probe without armor could have maybe worked, however sending infantry during even low light settings on open terrain, at most with a forest to cover them is wrong. Even with the low depression of soviet armor, the terrain here could have been used. Steve's theory that the Kremlin wanted to test DPR guys isn't stupid at all, but it just doesn't fit during this time. Russia has alot to lose from turning the oven on for the conflict, speaking politically.

True, totally not. I think he summed it up pretty good IMO. I am not having a bias in this battle because it's for no reason, whoever launched the offensive I'd say are wrong in doing so. But the claimed assault didn't look like any normal Russian/DPR assault to me, there would be images of burnt out tanks and BMPs already on the open fields.

I know I wouldn't out in the open like that.

Sounds good DPR/LPR side has some bad sources where they claim outrageous stuff. I personally do not follow these sources.. However, I will go by Ukraine's claims for their own casualties even though I think they'd hide the total number of losses till say a later date which could happen. It's not that hard to hide losses for a while. Ukraine has done it and so has DPR/LPR, I think we can both agree hiding losses for a limited period of time could be helpful in a war effort, be it propaganda or so the other side doesn't know how effective they've been.

Was, if I am now I can't tell you anyways (just kidding) I was in the VDV but I've observed our regular motor rifles as well. A regular barrage varies on the target; for the sake of this post let's say a village was the target. A battalion usually has at least a battery of artillery with them, and if it is an important objective the brigade HQ can get some BM-21s to wreck havoc, as usually we rely on heavy fire support to smash through enemy defenses. I wasn't an FO, but I can tell you it doesn't really matter how long you are shelling if you will be assaulting, it can be as fast as 3-5 minutes where you can totally smash defenses into pieces with concentrated fire, and usually just before the barrage is over an assault begins. You need to be specific with the artillery systems used, we have many variants in service. I know I am not Haiduk but I can tell you how it is. Since world war 2, artillery would pose a threat to trenches, however as long as it didn't hit inside the trench (and Russian standards of trenches are pretty narrow) you should be fine. Air burst can ruin your day. It's better to use mortars against such targets, air burst or not it's way better from what I've observed. (not personally but you get what I mean) You can check separatist totally not rebellion army's videos there's quite a few style of trenches they use however they are usually narrow and dug into the ground deep. Probably.

Yeah no one saved us in world war 2, however we did get help and it's appreciated.

Almost there

Not trying to be funny or anything, but doesn't this remind you of the setting for that notorious Russian counter-offensive there?

Look without going off topic, this can be debated back and forth. I think we'll both agree that there are many evidences that the opposition uses Mosques, Hospitals, Schools for military purposes. I'll list some so people who don't follow up don't think I'm BSing. https://twitter.com/MIG29_/status/812427435518136320

Call me crazy, but why does this whole Debaltsevo thing look familiar.

Corrections, hospitals where the enemy has been hoarding ammunition and arms, as well as HQs. Aid convoys? No just no. Markets? Re: hospital cases. You know how much last hospitals there were in East Aleppo? like 30. Let's get a grip on ourselves. I mean don't treat your neighbors so harsh, we're basically next to each other. You guys have gone through the same process with terrorists using urban environments, including hospitals and schools as military zones. We've also targeted enemy tanks, armored vehicles, trench systems, tunnels, bunkers, ect. ect. My favorite one would have to be enemy HQs.

Experience from I believe 50 aircraft, plus special forces on the ground is really going to make Russia focus on COIN and MOUT? The amount of Russians in Syria cannot be compared to the amount that was in Afghanistan or Iraq by coalition forces. If Russia is going to smash the Baltics it's not gonna matter much if we did operations in Syria... Our forces are still very much geared for conventional war. The Syria experience was not only good for logistics but also for air force command. And mind you the war in Syria isn't much of a coin environment, rebel forces operate like conventional forces as well. Well... Minus the part where they blow their selves up for military success. The RuAF has targeted other things other than apartment blocks lol...

Steve, I'm just high lighting it because it's about the current event. No need to almost bash in my brains for that. Well it's still something. As I've suspected the Ukrainians are lacking in some areas still. Might be his particular unit however I'd expect the front line troops to be equipped better. They were able to penetrate some lines of the defense however that's not really a victory... They still need to go further to exploit the success. It does however show they can launch offensives and be successful at it somewhat. Putin's demonic army still has LOS to Ukrainian positions from those posts according to videos online. Ukrainians need to take those positions and I'd label this a success on their part.

I'll ignore the dead hobo part for the sake of your well being well aside from losing a few aircraft most of them due to stupid mistakes the Russian intervention in Syria was a success speaking strictly militarily. It has showed some of our weaknesses once again, but also it helped us gain valuable knowledge in the long run. I won't go into the politics of course, but I'd think militarily Russia has enjoyed success in Syria. The ageing air fleet is true for a portion of it, Russia is still trying to modernize its fleet. It wont be like the US air force of course... But we're working with what we have. Also flight hours actually vary... Nothing to criticize active Russian pilots in Syria there for. One plane from the SU-24 series had I believe a 100 stars which marks ten strike missions each.

Quick update: it appears Ukrainians have shelled and hit a church(hopefully not on purpose), locals aren't happy about it. Watched a video of a volunteer from the 25th battalion complain to the government about why the battalion is lacking needed logistical vehicles* for evacuating the wounded and dead... They're using personal vehicles apparently. He said ladas and minivans were being used... Poor guys even if I'm not with the Ukrainian side I still feel bad for them. Anyways looks as if the lines have been stabilized... I'd expect a counter-attack from the separatists sooner or later.

Not sure if you're trolling or... Experience is experience, I'm sure NATO has had the chance to attack a foe like Russia in total war right? C'mon now.

A SU-27 crashing into another SU-27 on a frozen runway does not show any lacking in the Russian training... It happens lol... Yahoo to get insight? Yikes... But good thing you mentioned Syria; the MoD said 83% of the VKS aircrew has been rotated into Syria. So actually a very large portion of the Russian air force is being constantly rotated into Syria to gain combat experience and training from it.