domfluff

The inevitable comment will be about truly worst-case scenarios - what to do when your squad is under fire from multiple HMGs, pinned down in the open and generally having a miserable day. To quote Prachett's General Tacticus - "How to Ensure against Defeat when Out-numbered, Out-weaponed and Out-positioned" "Don't have a battle" You need to put a lot of work into avoiding these situations before you get into them, and have a plan for extricating yourself once you are. Sometimes, it all just goes wrong. Some combination of smoke and running away might help, but if you're in a no-win situation, by definition you'll have limited available options.

Your platoon or company MGs aren't going to be much use deploying under fire. You can do it, but it's not ideal. MGs serve a number of purposes (and there's a lot of subtlety in their use), but one obvious one is that they can move to hold ground that a rifle squad has recently taken, freeing up the squad for a future task. Rifle platoons are designed for manoeuvre. Bil used to have a good tactical exercise here, with a Squad Attack: http://battledrill.blogspot.com/2013/09/infantry-tactical-problem-001-squad.html This file (and the armour one) is no longer available - if anyone has a copy, I'd appreciate it - but it involves a squad on the march and allows you to practice all of this quite effectively.

A rifle squad should, in theory, be able to take down a single HMG. Obviously circumstances may make this more difficult. How it would work in theory: The squad is on patrol to whatever location when contact is made. You've been following correct movement procedures, so the squad is split into three sections, travelling in line. The forward elements are scouting, possibly as a literal two-man scout team, but equally perhaps just the 3/4 man team you get with a basic "Split Squad". This scout element will be moving from cover to cover (and possibly using Move, to allow them to sprint whenever they need to), so contact will either be made in cover, or on the way to cover. How this happens depends on how cautious you need to be, and how fast you need to be - trade-offs are speed and risk. The trailing elements have line of sight to this scout team (this is why Iron mode is useful) at all times - this determines your possible spacing, since you'll be closer in close terrain. MG fire rings out, and your scout team goes to ground (or dashes to cover). You'll be unlucky to lose anyone on the first burst, but obviously that's the risk you take. your scout team may not be in a position to see where the enemy is firing from, but your trailing teams are close enough that they have a good chance to do so. Priority number one is to go to ground, move into nearby cover (very nearby - you don't want to be moving a lot here), and returning fire. Your goal in the first minute or so is to work out what just happened - what's firing at you, where they are, and how many of them are there. The second goal in this time is for the squad leader to start calling down indirect fire from any platoon assets available - this mission can be cancelled, but if the firefight goes long then you'll need the extra firepower. Situation now is that you have a cowering and possibly injured scout team, and two trail elements in covered positions, firing at the source of the incoming fire. You now need to work out if you need to break contact. If you are overmatched in firepower, and the HMG is in a well sited position, covering open ground, then you're screwed (and you've probably made a mistake to get into that situation) - your priority then is to withdraw. You use smoke grenades and possibly call on any platoon mortars to provide some cover as you extricate yourself from a bad situation. If not, then you have to determine whether you can manoeuvre onto the target. If there's a covered route towards the target, then you can plan for an assault. The rest of the squad divides itself into a base of fire and an assault element. The base of fire will contain the squad automatic weapons and rifle grenades, and the assault element will contain any SMG and most of the grenades. Splitting by "Assault team" can do this, but the basic "Split Squads" command will do a good enough job here. The base of fire Targets the enemy contact marker by area fire - this allows them to open up and they will pour as much fire as they can onto the target. The lead element will also target the enemy, and should recover from their suppression fairly quickly, assuming they're still in contact with their friends. If this element or two can suppress the enemy - i.e., the fire is mostly going one way - then the assault element can move along the covered route and attack the target (move to within 30m, hunt in the last few spots, throw grenades speculatively or at known targets). Smoke grenades (or smoke mortar rounds) may help the move onto the target, since you're unlikely to have a perfectly covered approach all the way in. If this element cannot suppress the enemy, then the whole squad sits in their covered positions and fires. It's then the responsibility of the Platoon leader to engage the target with another squad or two to try to remove the threat. *** So the whole thing is a series of escalating if-then decisions, where you're preparing to minimise the risk and you're engaging with the smallest amount of force that you can afford. You're trying to manage the engagement the whole time, and stay in control.

A couple of comments here - Strykers (and humvees) aren't combat vehicles. If your gunners are getting shot at, they're probably unbuttoned, or in situations which are not conducive to their continuing health. They can provide support from range, or hull down, but those are not their first intended use. Using a anti-air asset for spotting is not only an "exploit", it's also a waste of a BMP. The BMPs *are* fighting vehicles, and achieve their protection through a combination of range (they can engage effectively from 1km away) and excessive firepower. Typically you'll dismount later with BMPs than you would with Strykers, or even Bradleys. Javelins certainly overmatch them, but aside from that you want the infantry to be mounted and manning the forward MGs, until they're ready to assault the target. "Ready" in this case is usually when the target is fully suppressed - it's not about having a fair fight. The other issue with using AA assets in this context is that it takes room that could be used for more useful supporting fires - ATGMs, RPOs, AGL, MMGs, Engineers, whatever. It you're taking space with an additional squad member, then you're wasting space that could be used for something more productive.

Using the newer Withdraw order to make smoke screens is pretty exciting, especially with Red forces. Going to have a play around with that.

Cheers, appeeciate it.

Could you share the .btt file for this when you're done? It would be useful to see this being played out live.

Oh, I think you needed something there to avoid being repetitive, so it's understandable. I'm progressing with that mountain mission now - there's a lot of ground to cover on foot, but the main issue is going to be getting through the woods at a decent speed. I *think* I have plenty of time to finish it, and I'm about to start the actual attack. As a house-rule in general, I don't call in Fire missions onto known targets unless I have a spotting icon at the FO (I'm happy to do that blind if I'm genuinely speculating), that led to an interesting tactical situation where a squad from the blocking platoon was out-gunned from an enemy MG, and didn't have an easy way to deal with it (they had the spotting contact, but were too busy to share it with anyone). Solution was to break contact with smoke, at which point the hill could be lit up with artillery.

I enjoyed the town clearing a lot. Compound to compound fighting. There didn't seem to be any reason not to just level the place with indirect fire though, which might have been the sensible option. The relief mission that followed was probably too straightforward - I stayed mounted and just rolled into it, relying on firepower to win. Currently on the mountain clearing.

There are some patches due, to deal with some engine 4 issues. Should be soon. CMBS has a battle pack, but that's it so far. CMFB doesn't run all the way to the end of the war, so you'd expect some late-war stuff in there, with some of the crazier tanks. Some of those are presumably in the CMRT module, so it makes some logical sense as a next step.

What we're officially waiting for is: Engine 4 patches CMFI Module, taking it to the end of the war CMRT Module, taking it to the end of the war After that there has been no word, but CMBS and CMFB haven't had modules, and CMSF 2 won't get any, so those are the plausible next options. The next most likely *game* after that would be a 1943 Eastern Front game, which has been mentioned in passing. That's pretty much all of the official word we have, with all of the most plausible speculation. The next most likely, but certainly not mentioned, would be a 1943 North African game. Modern scenarios are always possible, but with CMBS and CMSF you're covered for symmetric and asymmetric, so there may not be a need.

Thank you. Obviously the question of a specific solution, versus a generalised "correct" one is a different one. My actual solution to the problem assumed that the correct way about this was to be bold, and to use the platoon to "attack" the left hill, and if there was anyone there, they'd make contact, find out what they could, then break. Route in: The "South Yard" is the only viable covered rally point, so that's where the "run" part of hit-and-run is going. At the orchard, using the low walls as cover for the low BMPs. Started to pick up contacts, which the BMPs opened fire on. Progressing the attack across the orchard and finding some AT-14's. The nice thing about the Russian smoke launchers is that the BMPs can cover the retreat of the recon platoon - their smoke will travel forward enough to give them cover. Obviously, this is accepting a large amount of risk for that asset, but it does give a very good picture of what forces are actually present. I think this kind of thing might actually be the way the asset is intended to be used, but that was the question really - what's the intended purpose of the infantry battalion recon platoon.

Notably, these work correctly (reload after five shots) in CM Black Sea, for both versions in the game.

The AT-3 version of the ATGM BRDM has six AT-3s racked on top of the vehicle, with 14 in total carried. The AT-5 version has five ready, with 15 total carried. The vehicle will fire off the readied ATGMs rapidly, then take a long time to reload. The AT-3 version will fire off six of these before reloading. The AT-5 will fire off... also six. Where did the sixth come from? Before and after screenshots: ( 14 - 6 = 8 remaining) (15 - 6 fired = 9. Where did the sixth one come from?)

Thank you for this, this makes a lot of sense. In terms of the CMSF 2 TO&E: Under Mechanised Infantry, there's a "Recon Company" and a "Recon Company BRDM", both representing detachments from the recon battalion, I believe. Recon Company is an HQ unit in a BMP, and two platoon as the above (2 BMPS, 2 recon squads, 1 HQ, 1 ATGM). The difference here is that all of the HQs have man-carried radios, which, combined with having an HQ unit in common, makes them far more useful for passing around spotting contacts through C2 links. Recon Company BRDM is the above BRDM unit, 1 BRDM HQ and two platoons of 3 BRDMs, with 1x HQ, 2x recon squads, with HQ radios. There's also a "Self propelled ATGM Platoon", which is an HQ recon BRDM, and three of the ATGM BRDM's with AT-5s (all of these are BRDM-2's). That's clearly from the same upper formation, which isn't depicted at CM scale, but obviously can work with that (either by adding single vehicles, or the whole platoon).

Nah, Paper Tiger did a three mission campaign called Perdition, as well as the 15 mission Road to Dinas (and tons more, obviously). Link here, if you want it: https://file.io/u91Chh

Actually, I think I've answered my question - Based on a few sources ("The Russian Way of War", "Blinding the Enemy: Soviet Tactical Reconnaissance in the Rear Area", and a couple more I've randomly dug up from the internet), it looks as though the battalion recon platoon is assigned on a fairly ad-hoc basis from the available infantry. Tactical reconnaissance then seems to have three main categories - observation, ambush and recon-in-force. Observation is something anyone with a pair of eyes or binoculars can do, strictly. This formation won't be terribly good at it, since they don't have man-portable radios, but it's a lot better than nothing. Ambush is where that ATGM really makes sense - being able to head fast and deep into the field and setting up an unexpected threat like that (and then packing it up once you've triggered the ambush) makes a lot of sense. Recon in force is the other part, and represents the kind of risky, bold approach mentioned above. The recon platoon, then, is not a disposable asset, but it's a high-risk job. I think they're supposed to head out fast and deep, and encounter the enemy head-on, forcing a response. The intention is hit-and-run.

See, that's what confuses me - the BRDM-equipped recon company (a higher level formation) looks more logical to me for pure observation - you've small vehicles, with high visibility, and a disproportionate amount of fire to get you out of trouble. More importantly, the BRDM recon company has two platoons of BRDMs, each of which has an HQ unit with a radio. Clearly then, this can observe mounted or unmounted. The company HQ doesn't carry a radio, so he has to hang around his vehicle, but that's fine. (What does confuse me here is that the BRDM company is full of RPG-7 ammo, and doesn't have any RPGs, but shrug). The singular recon platoon in a mechanised battalion seems like it's set up to perform a different job, especially since it has an embedded ATGM. One ATGM won't stop any serious enemy movement, but might over-match enough to get you out of trouble. So... my guess is that the intention is for this to be used for a recon-in-force - along previously observed routes, but before risking the main bulk of the attack. This way, they'd be used boldly, relying on the firepower of the BMPs and ATGMs to get them out of trouble if and when they find it. But I have no idea if that's correct, or if that represents the doctrinal intent of the formation.

Oh, and it's definitely much better for not having them, but you do feel the lack of them.

Spoilers below for the old Perdition campaign for CMSF 1, since it illustrates a point quite well. A Syrian and Russian Mechanised infantry battalion contains a single "recon platoon". This consists of two BMPs, two four man recon squads, an HQ squad (with SVD sniper rifle), and an ATGM - in this case an AT-4A. This Red vs Red campaign (made by Paper Tiger) is a good example of the situation I'm puzzling over, so I'm going to spoil part of the first scenario of the campaign. In this scenario, you're given the above to start with. There's an obvious area to leave the FO (with access to multiple 120mm mortar batteries), labelled as "Point 194" to the bottom of the below image. You're also given the above recon platoon, and tasked with finding the locations of the ATGMs overlooking the valley. Your follow-on T-62s and BMPs will ostensibly have to follow the road to the right, leading them into a kill zone. Even if you didn't follow the road, you're still going to be exposed to wherever the ATGMs are. This is where the ATGMs are, 1km way on facing hillcrests. The question is, how is the Recon platoon supposed to be used? They have no man portable radios, and limited access to advanced optics (you have the sniper scope and the AT-4A, and otherwise binoculars). You're tasked with using this recon platoon to discover the locations of the enemy ATGMs, so that your FO can put down mortar fire onto them. You're also tasked with not wasting them, since they're a valuable asset. What's the doctrinal method here? It can't be "go that way until you blow up", surely? It feels like a single recon platoon for a battalion should be a tactical, aggressive asset - being active and getting their face into danger, but using their firepower to pull themselves out. I'm not sure how this is intended to work in a world with no drones or javelin optics, since surely the AT-14s will spot you long before you spot them, all else being equal? Are you supposed to recon-by-fire and guess the locations?

Here's a thought - speed mapping? Going back to Doom, there have been "contests" where a theme was given, and the participants have a hour (or whatever is appropriate, might be one week over a forum) to make a map. There's no reason why something like that couldn't be done for Combat Mission.

Oh, I love the restrictions here, don't get me wrong. Still, it might be nice to experiment with different loadouts - is there still a campaign extraction tool floating around?

Also, I do think this campaign is a great advert for the Stryker - having just one of those knocking around would be tremendously helpful here, and you really feel it's absence. I think the British Jackal might also make a lot more sense that usual in this kind of scenario - certainly an upgrade from the humvees, anyway.

I actually think this is conceptually more like "The Devil's Descent" or "The Outlaws" for CMBN - there are obviously practical differences, but the main thing is that you have a campaign which is following a company-sized force, sometimes over the same terrain - that allows you to become familiar with your forces and the terrain in a way that most campaigns don't, and means you really feel any losses. I'm not really sure that's a period thing, so much as having a structure where it's plausible to see small unit actions.

It's also the case that the old stuff all still works - it doesn't take advantage of the new toys, and it might well have balance issues, but it's all functional.