db_zero
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Posts posted by db_zero
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That intersects neatly with the demographics that BFC is interested in and they may reach through Steam. I have been tracking the Steam forums for Command: Modern Air Naval Operations, and yes, there's a lot of butthurt trolls with staggering amounts of self-entitlement who have been bombing the forums with threads complaining about the price, calling names at people buying it and at the developers.
Funny thing about Steam is that you can actually check those trolling persons profiles and you see curious things. Like the guy - "Liam Neeson Punching Wolves" or something like that, check it out yourselves - with 605 titles in his Steam Library, who has written over 80 "reviews" of games which are usually shorter than a paragraph and you can see he plays each title for an average of 5 to 6 hours.
Is people like that representative of the kind of people who hang out on Steam? Not really - many here do hang out on Steam and we are able to handle ourselves in a more intelligent way in this digital environment where one can get stuff - sometimes at outrageous prices -on a whim. Looks to me that there's a quite vocal minority of people with a very ugly consumerist addiction hanging out there, who go to great lengths to "police" those developers that "dare" to put their products at a price point beyond their reach (or not really, 605 games is an awful LOT of cash and indication of someone having a problem).
What I also see are former servicemen - or active ones - coming forward to the forums flabbergasted at finding something like Command on Steam. And who don't mind the price point and never had heard about Command before.
A similar thing I can see in some simulators, like IL-2 Battle Of Stalingrad. Leaving aside that those devs are alienating their potential audience in weird ways, a great deal of the noise on those forums were people coming from that War Thunder thing, complaining about the game being a scam (!!!). Now, do those forum antics matter at all? I don't think so - it's way too cheap to rant on Steam forums, not so cheap to rant on a Steam review (that requires you to buy the game).
Once again people don't seem to be listening to what Battlefront has said time and time again. They looked at Steam and it doesn't fit their needs or desires. Making comparisons and saying Command is on Steam so CM should be on there too because Command is a hard combat sim like Combat Mission demonstrates a lack of due diligence.
Look at the Company largely behind Command:Modern Air Naval Operations. Its Matrix Games. They have a much larger collections of games-many of which they never developed-but acquired. They bought the rights to Close Combat. They work in conjunction with Slitherine to put out games. In essence they operate like Microsoft does. The develop some software-but also acquire other software titles and go into partnership deals with other companies. They operate like a corporate entity and have the back end to deal and make all this happen. Steam fits their needs and they have the staff, procedures and business model to support this.
Battlefront on the other hand operates on a smaller scale and on a more craftsman like level. They are not the Budweiser model who mass produces, markets and sells on a large scale. They are more like the craftsman beer who operates on a smaller scale.
BF could scale up and try to operate like Matrix, but they have decided not to. Why they choose to operate like this is their business. They have their reasons-it may just be personal and something they decided amongst themselves.
You can choose to respect their decision and support them or you can choose not to, but really trying to force them into something they wish not to is just a waste of time.
Its also very inconsiderate.
IMO: Its time to lock this thread like the gun control ones.
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Some need to keep in mind the overall context of their arguments. BF already said no.
I agree with last post. Its time to let this thread die...
Over and out...
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I totally understand and even agree... Hence why I only have posted in one thread regarding this, have not attempted to contact BF multiples times directly through other means, and am not even directing my comments toward BF at all.
All of my posts have been responses to others engaging me with responses- hence the 'discussion topic'. I don't see anything wrong with that, do you?
Depends. Direct response to other people engaging you can be viewed as "combative".
Keep in mind too that you and others could be viewed as representative of what to expect on Steam-right or wrong that may happen. Put yourself in the shoes of BF who is already predisposed to not favoring Steam.
If they get this much flak here, then how much might they expect if they did migrate fully to Steam and be forced to respond to demands for this and that?
If I were BF and got this sort of flak here I would become even more resistant because responding to calls for this and that takes away from doing what i do best...design games.
Steam and games modded have issues from time to time. Will all the modders too be forced to join steam workshop?
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Its one thing to make a suggestion to a business owner of how they might improve their business, but to constantly pester them especially after the fact crosses the line.
You then enter the realm of telling a business owner how they Should be running their business. That will almost always envoke a stern response.
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We're just a bunch of crusty old gronards who refuse to join the rest of the civilized world on Steam. We sit in our exclusive world sipping $10,000 bottles of scotch, lighting cuban cigars with 100 bills.
Steam will change all of that. It will bring Combat Mission to the masses. Now everyone can have quick and cheap access to Combat Mission. The world will be a better place.
but don't worry. If you like your Combat Mission the way it is now, you can keep your current Combat Mission, because going to Steam and having BF pay 20-40% to a middleman and catering to the whims of Steam users who refuse to look at or purchase Combat Mission because its not on Steam isn't going to have any effect.
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I don't own a single Combat Mission game. I'd like to own them all.
If they were on Steam, I would probably buy them all right this moment. But they are not. Thus I will continue waiting.
So no matter what people may try and claim, not being on Steam is losing sales. It is not just a matter of product awareness but actual decision making on part of potential customers. I like Steam's convenience and game management and do not want to be bothered with BF's asinine 1990's sales model.
I will keep checking back every couple of months to see if they choose to be customer friendly or not, but until then I will not be buying their games.
wow 1 post and the first one is this....
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I visited the boards at Matrix. Doesn't seem to be much activity, but I did notice the game is discounted to $59 so I went ahead and got the download version directly from Matrix. I wouldn't recommend the full boxed version as the manual is way out of date.
The devs are promising a big surprise soon. I suspect its multiplayer. I've seen a few people mention morale and doctrine which would be a good step in the right direction.
Too bad its not like CM where you zoom in and actually see real vehicles and grunts. That would be nice.
There was a thread where someone mentioned that dropping the price and going onto to Steam is a bad idea. Keeping the price high assures that only those who really want the game will get it. Dropping the price will generate alot of people who will buy it at the discounted price and then demand a return and generate bad buzz when they get frustrated with it.
Being a hardcore ex-harpoon layer I'll probably have some fun with it, but if I had to choose only 1 I would pick Combat Mission without hesitation.
I have to wonder at a discounted price of $59 and Steam taking 20-30% off the top that must be like taking an Exocet up the backside when it comes to profit margin
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Well, this whole Steam debate should be answered fairly soon. Matrix just put up Command Modern Air/Naval Operations on Steam. Not only will the price completely freak the Steamers out, but so will the complexity. That is one bad ass game in terms of learning curve. One way to measure its future success or failure will be to see if there is a big drop on the Steam forum discussions after a month or so. Most games that have died on Steam show little or no forum activity after a while. No big secret there.
I don't think Command will move BF to steam either way. We'll just have to wait and see.
Heard good things about Command Modern Air/Naval Ops, but I pretty much stick to CM these days - even though I spent countless hours with Harpoon-both pre-computer version and beyond.
While CMANO boasts to be the most realistic I think it has a huge flaw in that boast. There are no morale, experience or training factors involved. A flight of F-16's from a third rate country pretty much behaves and fights like a flight of F-16s from a first rate country.
The weapons modeling is impressive, but the training, experience, motivation and morale of the people who operate the weapons makes or breaks a military.
I hear the ground component needs some work too.
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Doing an AAR, or something else?
Playing a game where the tank on tank action is the most intense either of us have seen and I'd like to capture it and send to some friends. Some of the turns were just unbelievable.
Don't know if I could do an AAR and I would want to ask opponent first if it would be ok as that was never planned. Its also a mirrored game so not sure if an AAR is a good idea.
Its Wittmans Demise and I went Tiger hunting. I just hope my opponent doesn't return the favor on the mirrored game where I'm the Germans.
He's giving me a real thrashing in another game. Unfortunately my British tankers didn't do so well and left my 82nd Airborne troopers in a bad situation. One or 2 shell hits on the German assault guns that gone a different way and that game would have went differently...my tankers got off the first shots and hit, but didn't knock out the Stugs
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Steam is no mystery to BF. They've already looked into it and determined it was not for them. I'm sure they are tired of responding to requests as to why they don't belong to Steam.
In my experience when someone says they are not interested constantly pestering them just makes them more resistant to the idea.
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BF has repeatedly stated they are doing fine as is and they have plenty n the works to prove that. If Steam isn't right for them, then it isn't right for them.
As for Eugene and Wargame being a big hit on Steam, what does that have to do with Combat Mission? They are hardly in the same category. I have Wargame too and it the sort of game that would appeal to the Steam crowd. Its an RTS, with life bars. Saying Wargame is grounded in realism is laughable. Its hardly realistic. Try playing a tank battle in Wargame and compare that with tank vs tank battles in Shock Force. If Wargame was grounded in realism the naval combat would be closer to Harpoon, than Rome Total War.
As for players who won't try out Combat Mission because its not on Steam, I would have to question whether they are the sort of players worth the bother. If they lack the initiative to investigate a non Steam game or too lazy to type in a search n google or just visit the Battlefront website to see for themselves, then they probably are not going to take the time and effort to learn the Combat Mission system and become and good.
I don't know exactly how Steam handles business. They are not publicly listed to my knowledge so you don't have to deal with shareholders or a board of directors, but even if privately held you still have to deal with individuals who may have control issues or certain ideas of how things should be done and that may not be in BFs interests.
Oftentimes when you enter an agreement with a big entity like Steam you have to bring in the lawyers as you will most definitely be signing a lot of legal documents and you better know whats in the fine print. Maybe BF just does not want to have to deal with this sort of baggage.
My impression of BF is they are passionate about their craft and are content with making a decent living while doing what they truly love and just don't want the headaches that come along when you have to deal with corporate types and you can be sure that once you join steam you're going to have to deal with the legions of people on Steam demanding this or that.
Nothing is free in this world and sometimes becoming "big" and making more money isn't all that its cracked up to be and the headaches that accompany it just isn't worth it.
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Whats a good video editing software to use with FRAP? I had Premier 5.5 , but can't find it. I use the free Microsoft video editing program.
I don't want to spend a fortune.
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Its all relative. When it comes to Combat Mission head to head against another human I win some games, lose some games.
When I played Company of Heroes online they said I sucked. Wargame online was the same thing.
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Guys, it is more likely another case of 'what you see is an approximation of what is happening in the game code'... Tanks can clip buildings, infantry jump empty air then run through the wall...
Not an AI cheat I suspect - AI doesn't get special code on the whole. we all use the same TacAI
This is a h2h game.
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I can understand why things are they way they are, on the other hand it makes for strange behavior. I've witnessed even more strange results that involved walls and it kinda ruins a well designed scenario.
Instead of focusing on tactics I'm now asking myself how can I circumvent the game behavior so it doesn't screw me.
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I have steam on my computer and if it wasn't for Total War, which I hardly play anymore and Wargame, which I've barely touched, I would get rid of.
Combat Mission is the only thing I play these days and the fact I still have steam on my computer when I don't use it is just another reason to NOT go there. Its just another piece of crap that gets loaded onto your system and who knows what or where your personal data ends up.
Yes I hate steam. When CA started using it begining with Empire Total War I was pissed. I bought a dvd thinking I could just install off the dvd only to discover I had to sign up with steam and be tied down to them.
Steam now sits in offline mode 99.9% of the time and if I don't get interested in Total War again, may just get uninstalled.
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I'm playing Whitmans demise and I discovered something that needs to get looked at.
My opponents Tiger sticks his barrel through one of the small openings in the tall wall. My Sherman hiding behind it fires 2 shots that go sailing over the Tiger-thats ok, but then the Tiger rotates his turret depresses his gun and kills my Sherman-the problem here is the wall was higher than his gun and the opening is too small for a tank to move through.
Basically the Tigers barrel magically rotates through walls...
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What does that mean?
Usually means bootie...and a nice big fat one at that. Then kind that creates visible shock waves when you slap it.
Kinda odd use of the word.
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I think most Russian tanks besides command vehicles had radio receivers only. They were basically told to start the attack and events unfolded from there. I'm not claiming that's how CM models it.
I knew in 41 most Russian tanks had no radios. If the above was true in 44 I would say Red Army players in RT have too much flexibility. I know I've reacted and executed tactics with Russian tanks that would have required good 2 way communications.
Poor radios would also affect spotting as one tank that spotted an enemy would have no easy way to relay info.
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What type of radios if any did Russian tanks at this stage of the war? We're they as well maintained as Western armies? I don't think they were and were they using throat microphones?
Conventional wisdom is by this stage of the war the Red Army was a lot better than it was in 41 to 43.
Still I can also say that in h2h I have seen my opponents Mark IVs beat up on my T34/85 at range.
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I had a lot of bad results with Russian tanks at first in my h2h games, yet on other games completely trashed my German opponents Panthers, Tigers and other tanks with my T-34's and SU's.
I'm leaning towards the doctrine of KISS (keep it simple, stupid) when playing the Russians. Always use them in mass when possible and keep the objective simple.
Playing the Western armies I don't hesitate to send off a tank or pair of tanks to do something, but with the Russians I send 3 to 6 to do the same task.
I can't say if the spotting is worse for the Russians, but I have had my opponents trash a lot of tanks at range before I could shoot back. I just figured it was more a case of me not knowing how to best employ Russian forces and being patient and learning the best way to do so
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Nice AAR. I'm gunna have to download and try this one out.
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Got 3 h2h MG games going on and I recently restarted the Campaign with 3.0 update.
Market Garden is a very enjoyable module, but I hate facing the paras with their sten guns.
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I've had all of the above and just learned to deal with it. I had an 81mm shell explode some distance from a MG and kill it while others have fell nearly on to it and done nothing.
I have a mirrored game going on and my Firefly shell hit and do nothing, while my opponent Firefly fires from the same position and kills 2 of my tank with 2 shots.
Its just the way things go sometimes.
In an ideal world we would have proper infantry spacing and ability to move spread out and shells that are not nerfed, but we're not yet there.
Combat mission and steam.
in Combat Mission Red Thunder
Posted
Battlefront has already replied in the past regarding Steam and made its position clear. To constantly badger them when they have indicated they are tired of responding to the steam issue is what i was referring to.
I didn't like it when CA released Empire Total War and I had to install Steam. I had a choice. Either not install it or accept the necessary evil of steam. There was no option to return for my money back.
Going to the steam boards and demanding things change would have gone nowhere. Thats pretty much the boat those who want CM on steam are in.
Get a few million dollars or more and offer to buy the rights to combat mission and see if they will sell the rights and then those who want CM on steam can run BF as they see fit. Till then its their company and they own the rights and they pretty much call the shots.
Now its back to youtube and CMNO videos that I bought directly from Matrix, not through Steam