LemuelG

You were only just complaining about the movie being 'a string of WWII cliches'... yet the biggest deviation the movie makes from traditional WWII cliches is one of your moans, methinks you might be hard to please...
 
So, clearly they respect Pitt's character as a leader and a fighter, but he's also not the man they think he is - he speaks German too well for it to be merely 'a tool of war', and as man who derides his comrade's religiosity he sure can place a biblical quote, he waits until they are no longer watching then weeps and vomits in a corner alone - and instead of looting and whoring after a conquest he secretes himself away from the others to 'play house' with the enemy and the new guy and clearly resents their loutish interruption to leer at the women and **** the place up like pigs. They're angry he seems to think himself above them, that he still secretly percieved himself to be better than the savagery around him - hence they drunkenly arrive to remind him of the time they turned thousands of Germans into hamburger, and the indelible marks they all share which bonds him to them more closely than the civilized decent world Pitt still tries to hold on to. To say they didn't care for each other seems to contradict the actual script - the army is like a family, you don't get to choose your comrades, and the familial bond does not automatically mean you always get along well personally with them, that you never quarrel or resent - quite the opposite.

76mm,

Not so. The Lend Lease Act was a legitimately passed and signed into effect law. It was intended to supply war materiel, not production means. It was intended to supply the fruits of science and technology, not the know-how underpinning them. Hopkins deliberately intervened in situation after situation and forced well-informed military authorities and civilian enterprises to hand over exactly those things. Hopkins stretched Lend Lease beyond all recognition, allowing Russia access to technology areas in which Russia had no real base; allowing Russia to conduct large scale military-industrial espionage (Major Jordan caught some particularly egregious examples but was overruled and forced to let them through) with impunity. In a very real sense, Hopkins helped create the Russian military-technical-manufacturing infrastructure which bedeviled us during the Cold War. This isn't to say the Russians weren't very sharp and ingenious in their own right, but life is so much easier when someone else has done the work already and you can capitalize on it. The Bell case saved Russia an estimated three years of development time and avoided any number of wrong radar engineering paths as well, over and above the huge ruble outlay which would've otherwise been required.

Clearly we disagree and will almost certainly continue to do so. I've made a strong case. You won't budge an inch. I'm still concerned Steve may opt to lock this thread. I therefore suggest we return to the issue of the Lend Lease AFV and their employment by the Russians.

Regards,

John Kettler

10Gbs in one file. One un-interruptable file. For maybe less than a hundred Mb.
 
Guess what? It was interrupted somewhere around 9Gb, and now the entire thing is gone, it seems my router just can't handle it.
 
Nearly a third of my monthly bandwidth - down the Goddamn toilet. Thanks a lot BF. In the history of hare-brained, half-arsed, user-unfriendly schemes, this takes the ****ing cake.
 
Remember when CMBN came out, and it was almost impossible for many of us to get the demo from the crappy host BF chose and we had to use bit torrent client to get it? Yeah, this is worse.
 
Can somebody please put this lunacy in reverse gear, give me the update I paid for in a manageable size or download - or give me my money back.
 
Am I fuming? You better believe it - unacceptable.

Remember CM:Barbarossa to Berlin and how it was just one title? I do. I'd trade all the pixels and polygons for some of that tactical crunchiness and vast scale we all loved; but wait - I don't have to, because I have CM:BB, and I'm not buying RT.
 
I still haven't gotten over CM:BN without French tanks or realistic USAB TOE (not gonna have that argument again, I proved it last time, and nothing happened). And earth-pimples.
 
I might buy CM:RT - Stalingrad/Summer-1942/whatever, if they code hand-to-hand combat. So few of the flaws of this engine have been rectified over multiple years and titles, why do you guys keep buying it?
 
It's nice they got flamethrowers in there, I guess.

You were only just complaining about the movie being 'a string of WWII cliches'... yet the biggest deviation the movie makes from traditional WWII cliches is one of your moans, methinks you might be hard to please...
 
So, clearly they respect Pitt's character as a leader and a fighter, but he's also not the man they think he is - he speaks German too well for it to be merely 'a tool of war', and as man who derides his comrade's religiosity he sure can place a biblical quote, he waits until they are no longer watching then weeps and vomits in a corner alone - and instead of looting and whoring after a conquest he secretes himself away from the others to 'play house' with the enemy and the new guy and clearly resents their loutish interruption to leer at the women and **** the place up like pigs. They're angry he seems to think himself above them, that he still secretly percieved himself to be better than the savagery around him - hence they drunkenly arrive to remind him of the time they turned thousands of Germans into hamburger, and the indelible marks they all share which bonds him to them more closely than the civilized decent world Pitt still tries to hold on to. To say they didn't care for each other seems to contradict the actual script - the army is like a family, you don't get to choose your comrades, and the familial bond does not automatically mean you always get along well personally with them, that you never quarrel or resent - quite the opposite.

I fondly(?) recall a former member here ripping into SPR because the chin straps on the para's helmets were wrong for that time period
 
It was at that point that I realised that wargamers complaining about war movies usually aren't actually complaining about the movie, they're just using it as a strawman against which to display their own superior knowledge of 70-year-old arcana. Yay them, I guess.

That wasn't my point and you should know it - the script deserves some praise for showing such intense animosity between comrades, rather than the typical mawkish best-of-buddies-everyone-loves-each-other schtick - and more, that you were specifically complaining about cliches in one sentence, then the next moaning about their absence, it's about consistency - for you the film is apparently damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. It can't logically be both too cliched and not cliched enough simultaneously. Choose one.
 
For me, judging on three categories: grog-factor (props, detail, minutia etc), production (sound, effects, music etc), drama (script/screenplay, acting, verisimilitude, etc), I wonder 'what soldier's movies are better overall than Fury'? Das Boot, Platoon, Thin Red Line... anything else? Saving Private Ryan? Great movie, has same flaws and strengths as Fury (fraudulent/implausible but 'enjoyable' final battle included), but with a fake-ass Tiger... after this point it all gets highly subjective - I love some Cross of Iron or Dirty Dozen as much as the next man, but they are lesser movies. Yes, Fury has definately benefited from being made well into the 21st century! But so?
 
I would, as a committed grog who nearly switched the film off after the opening text, heartily recommend Fury - the best parts are super-scary effects (those AP rounds... can we get some o' that in CM? Watch that PTSD) and really good performances from the whole cast - best role by Pitt in AGES. And a real Tiger. Of all things, the music was possibly my least favourite part - the extraordinary events for me were offset significantly by the overall authenticity of the props, effects etc; and the cliches not tedious because they were executed so well by the cast.