Atago

Argh! What's up with this mission? I FINALLY beat it, with a marginal but still it was a vicotry and I go back one? Does the next mission after that big town attack just look similar to the one with the trucks having to cross the "field"? Do I have to win big to progress to the next mission? Waaaaah! :confused:

I don't know what thread it was in, but yesterday I saw a response that said that vehicle pathing in one thing that is on the must fix list. I don't have time to find the thread and link it, but it's here or over in the tactics forum somewhere!

I got SOOOOO close! Draw - managed to take one of the two central positions and the one on the back right hand side. I don't know how to deal with the mine fields, and so ran out of time having lost too much getting past them (mostly the hard way :eek:). SPOILER!!! The back right objective is empty until mid game when Syrian forces come in and occupy it. They had a very rude surprise when they came in this last time I played (very satisfying!). If I can figure out the mine issue I'll be set to get 2 of the 3 objectives at least.

I did a bit of experimenting with mortars against troops in buildings. My results are not scientific by any means, though I have found them interesting enough to use the knowledge in my own battles. 81mm mortars - if you have enemy troops in a building try to get the rounds to go off in front of the building, not right on the roof. Use general - anti infantry rounds do not appear to work as well. IF the building is single story then anti-armor appears to work reasonably well, though it doesn't seem to hurt or suppress the guys in a building as much as general does. In multi story buildings the 81mm mortar seems to work less well the higher up in the building the enemy is (which makes sense). I tried air burst (anti-infantry) on troops in a 4th floor building thinking the blast may go off right in their faces. It does, but the effects appear to go down not out so the infantry was only marginally impacted. 120mm mortars work about the same way, though you can sometimes bring down the house with them. If you can drop a few rounds out the front door of a building the bad guys inside are usually pretty unhappy. 120mm seems to go through the roof better than the 81, but I didn't see that it went through multiple floors so if it's a 2 story and the bad guys are on the bottom floor - land the rounds next to the building not the roof. Disclaimer! This is my take on what I've seen through a few hours of putting together mini-games and taking the side of the guys having the mortar rounds dropped on them so I can see clearly what happens to them. I haven't done a whole bunch of tests to see if some of my results may be fluke occurrences! I don't think they are though.

It sounds like I've been using them right. I often try to set them up in a good upper story position behind where my troops will be advancing, then use them to pepper buildings with fire before my guys move forward (and as they are). Then if something more interesting shows itself I'll shift to specific targeting or just let the MG crew choose.

4 man team, works at longer range when set-up. What is the best use? I assume that putting them in an over-watch position before moving troops forward is the way to go. I assume you don't send them up with the squad? Never quite sure what the best use of these units are...

I have tried this baby a couple more times now. Still can't get sufficient results to move on, always get tossed back to the scenario before it. I'm officially ready to cheat now. If I can get a save game that is near or at the end of this one from someone so I can move on I'll do it. Alternatively is someone can do a really good walk through of how they managed it that would even be better as I may learn something. Winning this one, even with hand holding would feel better than outright bypassing it - but I'm stuck and will have to just shelve it if I can't get past or through. Yes, I'm weak and impatient and totally annoyed at my inability to get through this. If ya can't climb the mountain get a helicopter.

I expect that that bad guys hiding in ambush are probably very, very hard to spot. I think the problem probably comes form the artificial time limit that the game demands. It doesn't often give you time to really look over the approaches and set up a good, proper "sweep" of a building or building area. What I seem to run into most frequently is enemy troops that are ice cold and seem to know exactly when to start firing - doing a lot of damage before what's left of my troops start to return fire. The other problem is that they'll have spots to ambush from where only the squad moving in is can fire at them, overwatch units can't help. Even with pretty green enemy troops, it seems they don't give themselves away very often (if at all) before they're told to fire. So after reading the various responses and thinking a bit - I'm not so sure that the ambushing ability is necessarily off. I do think that the ambushing troops - if green - should have some potential for giving themselves away early through a mistake on their part (peaking out a window too early, jumping gun, etc). I know my sacrificial humvee tactic isn't very realistic, and probably no one's going to tell a humvee crew to go drive out in the open and get shot at. It works though, and until I find other tactics that suffice... well - they're not real Marines or Soldiers .

Just curious, not griping... In CMSF you can often spot vehicles quite a ways out by seeing dust trails appearing. At some poin the vehicle appears as well, dust trail in tow. In "real" life - can you spot the dust that well even when the source isn't visible? Sometimes it's like there is an invisible truck or something moving along.

Hmm, I see the problem - yes it would be much easier to hang out in a building and watch what's outside than vice-versa. On the flip side however, I can't see just plastering away at every building on a street as you move down it. Granted this is a game, not a simulation as such, and will not be realistic in all areas - but is that how it's really done in a combat environment, in a town where bad guys and RPG's can be in any window? To me the situation is more annoying when you are watching a building for suspected bad guys, but they can still get an RPG up and into your Stryker before infantry can blow their little pee brains out. Maybe it's the same thing though, they are inside the window, standing back a bit and hard to see? I like the Hummer Idea. Let them pop the hummer and give themselves away! I now use them as bait far more than I should probably for realism purposes. It seems that the bad guys can't resist taking pot-shots at them though and revealing themselves often missing with the ATGM or RPG too - if you keep the hummer moving fast.

Good way to find RPG's and ATGM's too - though there are never enough sacrificial Hummers to go around

Well, I tried the up the middle idea and got TOTALLY creamed, LOL! I put almost all my initial forces on the right side and went up and took the annoying building cluster from the enemy, destroyed a couple BMP's and a tank that were up there. So far So good. My first battlegroup arrives, I send them forward toward the main, center objective and find that at least one ATGM over on the left side has a view (ouch #1). I take the two multi-story buildings and set up a firing position on the central objective. Enemy tanks arrive... I bring down a bombardment on them (155mm) from my one spotter on the hill to the left. My trucks arrive. Well now, appears they "teleport" in right where a couple enemy tanks can see them. All but one truck is toast before I can even react. I was doing fairly good toward the center, had blasted a hole in the wall and was about to get some troops in there - taking fire form the right though, needed some arty fire. When virtually my entire truck convoy was toasted the enemy won a morale victory and I surrendered in disgust. Guess next time I need to leave a tank or two over there to make sure no bad guys can see them when my trucks "beam down".

that's what I'm gonna do - soon as I figure out how the pre-planned bombardments work. I'll set-up some Syrians in buildings and try various bombardments to see what happens. I can start the game as Syrian and be on the receiving end - that should tell me what I want to know. Stay tuned, I will report what I find, and try to make the experiment as scientific as possible to limit variables.

There is a difference in what I am trying to find out. I know they don't work against buildings, what I'm asking is if they work at all against people IN buildings. Bring down the shells on the roof would possibly do unpleasant things to people in a one story building or on the top floor of a mult-story building. Bring the rounds down out front and you'd expect splinters and shrapnel to impact any bad guys in the side of the building on which the shells are falling. I could care less if the building falls down or continues to stand if the enemy inside is either killed, wounded or just pinned so that my troops can more safely get inside (or on top, if it's only rubble). CMSF has a lot of depth but lacks some basic tutorial or guide in what works on what and what doesn't.

I agree to a point. If you are stationary peaking up from a trench, through the bushes or out the corner of a window you are going to be hard to spot. On the other hand, a trained sniper or observer should eventually be able to see something fishy if they watch for it. All I would like is for the target arc command to also allow for an increase in spotting for the particular unit. That way if I have a sniper for example, and want him to carefully check out a building through his scope - he has a good chance (or better chance) to spot bad guys. If one leans out the window to point an RPG I'd like him to get a shot before the bad guy does.

Exactly - so if they're in a building 81mm or smaller mortars are useless except for laying smoke? I think I need to test this all out to find out, it appears no one knows for sure.

Oh yeah, know that one. But if all you have is 81mm or smaller mortars and the bad guys are indoors - what then?

Hmm, I've been trying to be sneakier and make end around runs but maybe the blast up the middle idea will work. Nothing to loose for me, I'm still totally unable to win this one and move on.

I was watching a show about the M1A1/A2 on the Military channel this weekend. One tanker said he liked fighting at night much better than during the day as the thermal sights caused enemy vehicles and infantry to show up much more. I'm not positive, but I don't think this is the case in CMSF, or at least it's not obvious if it is.

I had a thought (it happens sometimes) - would this scenario be easier to do WEGO instead of realtime? Maybe that's what's causing me trouble.

Figured that one was true, it's buildings I wonder about. With the 155 it's pretty easy to just slag the place, with smaller stuff it's less clear whether to send it on the roof hoping it will penetrate to the bad guys, or try to detonate the rounds next to the building hoping that stuff will KO who's inside. I'd think that general out front would work, but don't know. Heh heh, maybe I should test it and set up a mini-scenario both ways and play the red side to watch the havoc. Hmmm, come to think of it that may be a good way to test lots of things.

I thought it was fairly clear I'm not asking how to USE the missile which should be on the tactics thread, I'm pointing out that in the game the firing man stays up and vulnerable to fire until he's reloaded and THEN ducks. I'm not a Marine or Army man, but it seems to me that once you fire the missile and announce your location to the world - Ducking for cover would be the first priority (self preservation) - then reload the silly thing before deciding if it's safe to pop up and fire it again at a different target. Try the original campaign mission 1 - the berm. You can sneak an ATGM team up on top to fire at targets beyond without drawing fire. Fire the ATGM and you draw fire. The firing Soldier stays up and vulnerable for a time, even with a hide order - I assume to reload the launcher.

Infantry in a building - obviously you can sometimes blow the entire structure to Hell using 155mm ammo, but if you just want to suppress or better yet kill the enemy inside... 60mm mortars - use air burst or general with a target area ON the building or in front of it? 81mm - same question - will it go down through the roof at all or is it better to try to aim impacts slightly in front of where the enemy is situated? Enemy in trenches - air burst (infantry target) right overhead I assume is best? Armor - do 81mm mortars do anything to tanks but force them to button up? 'Copters - if you have enemy infantry in a building - target medium on the building? What about in a trench - area fire? Thanks! Still trying to decide how to best use the support assets...

Hmm. I must be doing something very wrong. I had multiple squads badly smashed up trying to take that cluster of buildings (the scull-n-crossbones). The bad guys have places they can hide in there where my AFV's can't fire without exposing themselves to tanks and/or infantry AT weapons fire. When I DO get in there the tanks typically seem to know, and fire at the infantry before I can sneak in an a Javelin. I end up spending half the tiem I have just digging out the ticks so I can get on with assaulting the center. I'm lucky if I can get the center before the time runs out, let alone getting the other 3 objectives! I run out of artillery & have only the 2 helo's left to help and virtually half the map to go through still. I see little hope to get through this. If I go back to the previous mission and go the 'other' route (there are 2 choices) - will I bypass this "winnie the pooh of death" mission entirely?

My main problem is time. I find the pressure of having to move fast inevitably forces me to get guys killed too fast. In the central objective for example, I sent 2 full squads in and they all got destroyed by Syrian forces that were inside. I don't have nearly enough artillery to 'nuke' all the areas I end up having problems with! Last go round (embarrassingly enough, 7th try ) I DID manage to actually get one acceptable! That's improvement. I did not secure ANY objective (again). Bad guys in the back corner objective were managing to get ATGM's on target, and I was out of Arty to do anything. Do the Helo's work at all in an area fire mode vs infantry? I want the Iowa! Leveling a few buildings would at least make me feel better. Jeez but I'd love to see how someone got through this one! Question - if I play on 2nd level difficulty (can't remember what it is) - do the question marks remain on an area even if the target originally sighted there isn't in view? That may actually help me get at some ATGM and RPG firers. I need some way to put a mark on a suspected bad guy - not having to remember where they are all at.