rudel.dietrich
-
Posts
644 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by rudel.dietrich
-
-
I was really tired last night and completly forgot about C&C
I disagree with you somewhat of the control and formation of these units.
They would be lots of mixes, but they would be cordinated and have a clear leadership.
These men don't just wake up one morning and decide to join the organization.
They train and get to know one another and for many this is a full time job.
I also found very strong evidence that some radios are in use and mobile phones are heavily used.
Cheap pre-paid cell phones are used by the dozens to cordinate attacks and give out orders.
There would be a strong degree of control.
Hezbollah units should be better than regular Syrian army units.
Not as well eqiuiped but much much higher morale and better at what they do.
-
I take it this is just for Hezbollah and irregular units, correct?My plan was to create mixed formations with lots of individual units and not much in the way of command and control. Generally the rule of thumb is no more than 3-5 units per command element, but I'm going to guess that for large scale activity it is probably more like 10-20 per command element. At least for the more unconventional type forces. Militias, on the other hand, would attempt to emulate military organization. They just wouldn't do as good of a job at it
Anyway, the formations I was planning on would be a mix of units:
1. Light - contains light small arms and RPGs only. This simulates a more empoverished defense unit or one that was thrown together at the last minute.
2. Medium - has a sprinkling of heavier weapons, such as ATGMs, MGs, light mortars, etc. Still, the primary unit is lightly armed.
3. Heavy - well supported by ATGMs, MGs, mortars, etc. Much more like a mixed military task force than scrap fighters.
In addition to this extra arms and unconventional units (IEDs, Spies, etc.) can be mixed in.
Steve [/QB]
If so that sounds good.
I was happy to hear you guys adopted coding that would allow equipment to be doled out randomly.
Works well for regular US/Syrian army units and even better for non-regular units.
I hope that there is a big speed different between infantry.
One of my main complaints about CMX1 was infantry was just too damn slow.
I realize that the scale of games are different but they were still terribly slow.
If I have a unit of Hezbollah armed with only rifles and I choose to run with them, they should really haul ass.
How many small arms do you guys plan on modeling?
The ones listed above comprise most of what is used.
I could have named 15-20 more
-
If someone from the Baath party saw his name then he would get a bullet in the back of the head for his trouble as would his family.Originally posted by FAI:Anyone from Battlefront ever tried asking a Syrian general? I think they can find one that can be bribed with a beta testing account, an entry in the credits and a special edition CMSF signed by all Battlefront's crew
-
Hezbollah
This took a while, but im confident I have a clear and accurate picture as to the force structure of these fighters as well as what equipment they would use.
Instead of posting a pure TO&E im going to post some reccomended forces as well as confirmed small arms and hardware in their possession.
First let me state that I am of the opinion that these would be high quality forces.
Somewhere between Guards and SF/airborne quality.
Very high morale.
Training would be limited but experience would be high. These men have been fighting someone all their lives.
A basic Hezbollah team I believe is 6 men.
It can be more, it can be less but from the documents I have a 5 man team seems to be the norm.
These can be armed in thousands of different combinations.
But the six main rifle types are thus, in order of likelyhood they will have them.
AK-47
H&K G3
AK-74
FN FAL
M16A1
Some teams are simply armed with rifles and nothing else.
Others with rifles and heaps of gernades.
But most will be armed much like a regular army squad.
The 7.62mm PKM is the most common LMG
7.62mm RPD comes in second
5.45mm PKMs
FN FAL LMG
M16 SAW
M249
M-60
All those seem to be in use as well.
Most teams will carry a LMG.
Ammo load is very light and ammo for the rifles is very light as well.
These teams are made to be mobile and displacing after light contact.
Snipers and marksmens within squads seem to be common as well.
Bolt action rifles, SVDs and scoped assualt rifles all being weapons that are used.
RPGs seem to be in some squads but mainly relegated to dedicated teams.
Special weapons are varied and numerous and depends on what the squad can get ahold off and its purpose.
AT mines
Pole mines
Petrol bombs
Pipe bombs
Grenade budles
Grenade launches (40mm H&K seems to be the model of choice)
60mm mortars
A second LMG
Man portable SAMs
ATGMs
You name it, and they carry it withing a regular infantry team.
Have fun BF
A platoon is three such teams and what seems to be a 'Engineer' squad
These teams also seem to be six men.
Basic rifles and LMGs apply
Many times carry SMGs
MP-5s are common, as are old WW2 vintage British and German modles as well as Uzi knock offs and some Chinese stuff.
Carry large satchel charges either for planting or close assualt
Frag bombs which are modified artillery shells or very large pipe bombs
Petrol bombs
Quanities of AT and AP mines
RPGs
Mortars
These would have large quanities of such special weapons.
Comapanies don't really exsist formally but they do form from time to time for easier corrdination and to mass firepower.
A company would be four such platoons
So 4 platoons with 3 teams each with a single attached engineer squad
Teams seem to be formed and attached at will
These would include
Two or three man RPG teams
Mostly RPG-7 or RPG-7v
Could also be RPG-16s or RPG-29s
LAWs
Carl Gustavs
107mm or 73mm RR rifles could all also be seen
Man portable SAM teams
Three men
SA-7s
A few SA-16s
ATGM teams
Could be a number of weapons
Mostly ex Soviet stuff
Could also be Milans, TOWs or some Chinese stuff
Metis and Kornet are possible
Machine guns
7.62mm PKMS
12.7mm NSV
M-60s
FN-FAL LMG
MG-3s
AGLs
AGS-17
Vehicles
Mostly light stuff used for transport
Modified armoured trucks and cars
Many technicals armed with 7.62mm or 12.7mm machine guns
Can also be armed with
Recoiless rifles
Mortars
ATGMs (Soviet stuff and the HOT system and Milans)
Twin 13.2mm AA guns
14.5mm AA gun
23mm AA gun
37mm AA gun
AGLs
AT guns
So there you have it
Sorry I could not be more helpful, but info was very hard to find.
I know that is alot of weaponary to model, but it seems they purchase and use anything they can gets their hands on.
Here is how I would set up Hezbollah
I would give the player three choices
Light teams
Medium teams
Heavy teams
I would divde the weaponary between those three and make each class cost more.
Once a player selection say a medium company, the game would randomly select what a team was armed with using the 'medium' weapon classification.
Thus you could easily have thousands of combinations and have the motley rag tag realism intact.
I would build specific teams and let the player purchase them speratly as would I do with all the armed and unarmed trucks.
Hopefully some of that was useful.
That is most everything
If you need anything at all, let me know. I hope to tie up a few loose ends and answer some questions.
-
Light vehicles need it more than any vehicle on the battlefield.Originally posted by dan/california:I don't think anyone is suggesting it for Humvees. But unless the army is going to totally rewrite their tactical manual they would make a lot of senses on M1s. Let them continues to do what they do best, systematically blow the bleep out of the bad guys. Next priority would be Bradleys, and then Strykers. Some one said something in another thread about about not encouraging vehicles that aren't tanks to act like them. But for the actual tanks, that are going to be at the tip of the spear the next time some ^&^&$&^&^$&*(*)()&( government has got to go, they make a ton of sense.
The other huge issue is the U.S. desperately needs a breakthrough in mine detection. I''m not sure how much the money thrown at that has accomplished so far.
All you can really hope for is that the counter to your counter will be painfully expensive for the other side to field. If ATGMs had to be fired in much larger groups it would make the guys using them a lot harder to hide.
The fact that Rumsfeld should be impeached for some combination of treason and incompetence is another issue.
A Abrams is much harder to kill than a Humvee or APC.
And with the types of wars America is typicaly fighting these days it makes alot of sense to arm your ligher vehicles with something that has a good chance of making them unable to be hit.
-
History has taught us thousands of times that for every vaunted super weapon or super defense there will ALWAYS be a counter.
-
But I am tonight!Originally posted by rudel.dietrich:Not going to get to Hezbollah tonight.
Took me a while, but I think I can post a rough outline of what Hezbollah forces would look like.
I had to enlist outside help with this one!
-
Because it is my actual nameOriginally posted by Seanachai:Why did you?
There have been Germans named Rudel and Dietrich long before the war and will be long afterwards.
Adolf is still a somewhat popular name and believe it or not some famlies still use Hitler as a family name, even moreso in Austria.
It is unfortunate that some with non Germanic bloodlines have taken their fascination a little too far and and then entered the wargame community.
They mar anyone with an actual interest in the subject and create myths about the 'invincibility' army.
Even worse some are not actually creating wargame and letting their bias slip into their work.
[ September 09, 2006, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: rudel.dietrich ]
-
I think you have shown you know little about warfare and even less about politics and nothing at all about good common sense.Originally posted by Lee:Steve: Who said anything about Israel sticking around to a fight a terrorist insurgency?
I'm talking about going in and obliterating all enemy opposition through overwhelming firepower and then leaving right away. The mission is accomplished, and you've crushed those that started the war on Israel with minimal losses to your own soldiers. And the message is clear; you don't have to like us, but don't dare start a war with us, because you'll lose and you'll pay a hideous price in the process. Leave us alone, and we'll leave you alone. It's that simple.Sure, there are some real crazy types in these muslim countries that apparently enjoy the idea of getting blown up (or blowing themselves up in a pizza shop and mass murdering civilians), but most of the people, even if they lean toward sympathy with these nut jobs, don't want to see their country in ashes. And so they'll be forced to stop the terrorists themselves, lest they get them into yet another ruinous war which they will lose and suffer even more from.
And by the way, I'm not talking politics, I'm talking military strategy.
It simply does not work like that.
Isreal is heavily dependent on foreign aid.
If they killed several thousand civilians in a very short time span then their would be serious cuts in what was given or sold to them.
That right there would be enough to have lost them the long time war against their neighbours.
But lets continue.
Secondly Israel has made strides to lessen the number of enemies that surround it.
Eygpt and Israel are at peace and Israel and Jordan while not formally at peace are not going to go to war any time soon.
If Israel leveled the southern half of Lebanon then that situation would change very quickly.
Syria would go from all bluster to actually lauching a full scale attack.
The passive Arab countries would go from shunning their northern neighbours to all out assistance and perhaps even declaring war.
Thousands of foreign fighters would flock to the area to join in the defense or terrorize Israel for years to come.
In short the entire situation would become alot worse than it already is.
It MIGHT remove Lebanon from the situation but would create a dozen more enemies to take their place.
It would make no military sense at all and even less than no political sense.
Killing thousands is not a way to get people to 'leave you alone'
It would do the exact opposite. It would get people who have no interest in the conflict to take notice and turn against you.
You obviously have no military knowledge what so ever and travel about the internet spouting off the wall military 'stratagies' in hopes of impressing other internet wargamers with your manliness and new concepts on how to win at asymetrical warfare.
So stop embarassing yourself, your not fooling anyone and only serving to make a bigger ass of yourself.
-
They still had a few 1s when I left.Originally posted by flamingknives:Steve,
Leo 1s. AFAIK the Bundeswehr only operates Leo 2s
I'll get my anorak
Mostly training and reserves but a few were still rolling.
-
I have seen references too that the Syrians have convereted trucks, GAZ utility vehicles and Shorlands to accept the HOT II missle.
Not sure which branch would use those or who if they even exsist.
Yet something else to look into.
-
BTW
The SP ATGM systems they do have have missles that are not first generation missles or lauchers.
The Malkmutka and Konkurs both would be the -M version which has significantly more penetration value and accuracy.
I doubt they have the BMP-3 Kornet version
I doubt they have the Khrizantema-S
However, they could have some of the 9P149 Shturm or Ataka in their guards division.
That would be an upgrade over the BDRMs
Somehow I think thus unlikley too.
Going to have to dig.
-
Not going to get to Hezbollah tonight.
I have a bit more research to do on them and I have worked 60+ hours the last two weeks and im tired
Maybe late tomorrow I can post info on them.
They will be the last big group I do.
Then I can do some small stuff and tie up loose ends and do anything BF needs me to do.
-
How can the 2S3 have more rounds for a larger gun type when the carrier is the same as the 2S1
Or is the tracked carrier different?
[ September 07, 2006, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: rudel.dietrich ]
-
Yes cablesOriginally posted by John Kettler:rudel.dietrich,
Cables? You mean they haven't gotten past Navarino yet? Egad! Have decided to go back and list the point blank ranges for direct fire vs. 2 m high target, too. Seems highly game germane to me!
Regards,
John Kettler
I am trying to think of an explanation but none is forthcoming.
First I did not think cables could even be measured on land.
Second I did not think anyone used cables past 1925.
Only the Russians would do something in such an iefficient manner!
And the information given is very basic.
Shell weights, ranges, degree of elevation, ammo types, weight etc.
-
Alot of my ranges were indeed wrong.
I had access to Russian sources which list ditances in cables :confused:
I did all the conversions wrong
Im serious
I did not fix them becasue they hardly matter to a game like CM
But by all means, please fix them.
Someone might really be curious.
-
As for the BDRMs
Most of the AT-3 models appear to be within reserve formations.
Most are now armed with the Konkurs AT-5
I am still researching whether or not Syria has any armed with better missles.
I would think if they have purcahsed Metis and Kornet systems they would have purchased some vehicle mounted ones...
But I will keep looking.
Why did you guys have to pick Syria
Would have been better off picking a country that someone knows at least a little something about.
[ September 07, 2006, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: rudel.dietrich ]
-
Hehe, I know, the Syrian military is secretive to say the least...in fact I think they are one of the worst. It sounds like you have more piccies than I do, and Ive been looking for a couple of yearsOriginally posted by KwazyDog:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by rudel.dietrich:
Good to know.
When I say that I see pictures, I mean like half a dozen pictures that are very grainy
Are you seeing any variation in uniforms between unit types out of interest?
Im sure it can be arranged Rudel, but youll have to ask Steve when he is about as Im just doing the models/texturesI do have one tiny request though...
Once you finish it, can I be mailed a copy of the Syrian TO&E?
Not to nit pick, but perhaps I can spot any errors and try and get them corrected before release.
BTW one question on the BRDM's...did you have any pics of these? Im curious to know if they use the AT-3 or AT-5 types...I suspect its the AT-3 but I have conflicting info on these.
Thanks again!
Dan </font>
-
Actually Im pretty sure that they have both as I have found several references to the AK-74M being purchased by the Syrians in 2001, such as in the below.Originally posted by KwazyDog:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by akd:
Does have a side-folding stock, but it is solid instead of skeletal. AK-74M also come with an optic rail, so if all these Syrian rifles truly have optics, I would suspect they are AK-74Ms. AK-74M is now pretty standard issue for the Russian military. Kalashnikov advertises a "AKS-74M" for "airborne forces," but I am have trouble determining if there is actually any difference from AK-74M.
http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/3-2001/ff/atdam/
I dont know how we should deal them out though at this point.
Rudel, thanks again for this info, it has been a great resource! I am currently making the AK models so this combined with the info we alreayd had is helping very much to determine just what we should do here
</font> -
Did not know if GD has sent out a few test models yet to get some opinions from 'experts'Originally posted by fytinghellfish:Nope. Hence the "X" designator.
-
Has this been fielded yet?
-
I wonder why they carry the RPK instead of This baby ?Originally posted by Prinz Eugen_2:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by rudel.dietrich:
Infantry
There is a squad LMG gunner and his assistant.
THe LMG is a 7.62mm RPK saw.
To my untrained eye, the RPK's only benefit over the PKM would be that it's lighter than the PKM. When I was in the infantry though, my LMG gunner had the PKM. Sure, it weighs a bit, but he was a sturdy fellow and handled the gun well.
PKM packs more oomph with its 7,62x54R cartridge compared to RPK's 7,62x39. It's got bigger belts, at usually 100 rounds each, compared to RPK's 40 round box magazine. It even beats the RPK in firepower, 650 per min vs 600.
Why select the RPK ? :confused: </font>
-
I read it was either the GP-25 or the GP-20Originally posted by akd:[As far as I know, the GP-25 does not fit the AKS-74U.
I have been in meetings all day and my brain is fried
-
Oh damn, I forgot to do Hezbollah
I will do them tomorrow night, I do not have much on them but I do have something.
Plus they would be extremly effective ingame units.
Are you seeing any variation in uniforms between unit types out of interest?
Syrian TO&E thread
in Combat Mission Shock Force 1
Posted
Actualy I would expect large groups of Hezbollah to cross the border to fight inside Syria.
Defense of Lebanon means little to them.
Syria is the their home base and means of supply.
Without Syria, Lebanon is just a weak shell of a state.
Syria has been pulling the strings inside that country for decades and still does to a certain extenst.
Most of Hezbollahs memebers are also not Lebanese, many are but the organization represents all of the middle east with some members coming as far away as SE Asia and Europe.
Lebanese nationalism means little to them, if Syria came under attack then this would be a threat to their supply base/HQ.
They would rush to its aid in strong numbers.
As to small arms.
I can understand not wanting to model a large number.
But hear this, the G3 MUST be modeled.
It is far and away the second most signicifant firerm in the inventory and many many rifles exsist as well as mountains of ammunition.
As got not modeling Hezbollah directly, I cannot fathom why.
It it sort of like the BMP-3 question. I show that they exist and are used in large numbers yet it seems like a decision has been reached andno matter what I find it has been decided that the question has been solved.
Syria would not have to set up its own Hezbollah overnight. It would have all the figthers it needs pouring into its borders by the thousands.
Syria/Iran are the creators of the force.
Im not really sure what makes you think they are all that tied to Lebanon.
And as for leadership.
I agree with you that there are not alot of leaders, but a leadership DOES exsist.
The organization could not exsist without people telling other people what to do.
In fact I was thinking of sugesting that if SF teams exsist that they have control over any present militia and Hezbollah units.
Israel saw this in action a few weeks ago...but I probably shouldnt say much about that.
I will say that SF units would be the ones cordinating and launching a post-war resistance as well as keeping the crumbling military fighting.
America loves to crush C&C early.
Syrian Special forces as one of their primary jobs is to step in when this breaks down and cordinate local defense efforts.
As akd has said, this is not Iraq.
I understand having mountains of info from that conflict and wanting to use it in place of what is not know.
But it would be a mistake to model Syria after Iraq.
If a Syrian war took place it would be a far bloodier enterprise.
The regular army posesses more backbone and would put up more of a fight and the resistence would be Falujah turned up by several degrees all across the country.