RIPper_SVK
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Posts posted by RIPper_SVK
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the speed of the vehicle won't add to the penetration. but if the projectile retains vehicle speed, it sure is important to know this for gunnery. you've got to aim at different spots if the projectile retains or doesn't retain the vehicle's speed.
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i forgot that not only the gun shots should be louder, but all explosions. for example you hit an enemy with 120mm sabot or heat, andyou can hear the hit effect a few seconds later
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today i played as the commander of attackers, and it went great. people were really willing to cooperate. one annoyance is that you cannot drop towers while you're in the command vehicle. we were playing the ice map, we succesfully stormed the base, and then i had to keep new jammers and aa turrets coming to the base constantly, because they got killed quite a lot...that way i couldn't be on the field and call arty or help by other means.
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when i play as commander on defence i send messages with enemy contact information. people usually react to that. or if i say that we need some defensive help in some sector someone usually comes.
i didn't command attackers a lot yet, i'll see how will people react. but i think the cooperation will be worse.
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i really like the arty sound. but i think gun sound could be a bit better. other people's shots are very quiet, even at quite close distances. a 120mm shot sound should be heard from more than a kilometer. also you should be able to hear a distant "pok pok pok" of the 20mm cannon. my own shot sound volume is just right, but the other's should be heard more loudly and from a greater distance....like now you can hear the arty from long distance, and that's just great. it would create great atmosphere by you hearing many shots in the distance. it also has some information value.
another nice feature would be implementing the speed of sound. it might be confusing for new people, but when they would understand why don't they hear enemy's shots instantly, it would become a huge immersive factor...imagine yourself exchanging shots with a Thor, you see him shoot, then hear the sabot bounce of your front armor, and then you hear him shoot.
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i think i also already wrote about this, so i'll sum my ideas up here:
1) HEAT: the 120mm HEAT explosion should be much larger. this one looks like 40mm grenade explosion
2) 120mm sabot hit to a vehicle should produce a significant effect. it should look almost like a bit smaller explosion. in reality it has a bright flash, lots of sparks and the shockwave kicks a lot of dust around the target.
the described effect if for a non deflected hit. i'm not sure at what angle do the sabots bounce of the armor in the game, but in reality it's at around 80 degrees from normal. a deflected hit should produce a much smaller effect.
the current effect of 120mm is right maybe for 20mm.
i think the sabot hit effect should look the same regardless if it penetrates or not (unless the turret explodes instantly
. but if the hit penetrates, you should see some effects later, like smoke coming from the penetration hole.sabot hit to the ground should kick up some dust and dirt, but not too much.
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i like to be the commander, and the 20mm on the command vehicle is great in the raid map. there's a lot of places for close combat. btw i met ClaytoniousRex in the game tonight, a pleasant surprise that devs play with us mere mortals
though i don't like that it can penetrate Thor's side. what's the point of a heavy tank if it can be killed by a puny 20mm from the side? Thor's back, engine deck and maybe turret back side should be penetratable by the 20mm. also tracks should be damaged, but only if you hit the part of the tracks that's not covered by the sideskirts.
overall i'm a bit scared by the 20mm's efficiency at close range against the Thor.
if 20mm is so effective, than 120mm would be much more effective. against other vehicles it seems to be just right (maybe it could be a bit more effective against Paladin's or Shrike's front, they're just light wheeled vehicles)
i think a few things would be usefull for the commander. when i call arty, emp, mines or whatnot, a marker with an effective radius should be placed on the map (and on the minimap). so other players from the same team are warned from the arty...maybe play some warning sound too like "artillery incoming" so the player would look on the minimap and see if he's going to the danger zone.
i'd like if the commander (and probably other players) could draw some simple graphics on the map and send them to others. something like this (Steelbeasts game):
(the red "arrows" were made in the planning phase in that game and they can be sent to other players)...i think that even just drawing lines of various colors would be great
though the graphics would be less usefull in Drop Team than in steelbeasts, because the game is much more "fluid". because of dropships the attack directions change quickly. but a very simple tool for drawing something might be usefull.
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i still think 120mm is a bit weak. for example, 2 hits with HEAT on a paladin (or was it shrike?) didn't really damage it. i didn't see it have any problems continuing fighting....and that isn't a rare situation. i almost don't use AP anymore even at close range
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by the way i like it that studying the component layout is helpfull, so people need to think more about placement of their shot. it makes people think more in the game, which is a great thing. this puts this game on a different level than most other games, great job! but i have some doubts about some component sizes.
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i studied the vehicle schematics in hope to be able to disable vehicles faster (so far i'm a bit frustrated about the high number of hits needed to kill). what got me interested is that crew compartments are very small. for example in the paladin, the gunners compartment is really tiny. compare it to the size of the 20mm, and i don't think a human could fit there....is that on purpose?
some of the tougher vehicles (thor and hurricane) seem to have a lot of empty space inside, especially in the front half of the hull. so it's no wonder that i score 5 hits with HEAT to the front side without any effect, when only a really tiny driver's compartment is there.
i guess i'll start shooting at the rear sides, because there's always something big to hit. but i don't like this.
i don't know the damage model details. do you model blast damage from penetrations? so one doesn't have to hit a component directly to damage it.
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on the other hand you shouln't deal damage only when you hit some component. blast damage or resulting fires play an important role in real life damage, and they can damage components that aren't in the direct path of the penetration....i think HEAT should do more blast damage than AP
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does the repair really work? i've called the resupply ship several times and needed repairs. but even after waiting for a long time (minutes) nothing was repaired
when does the repairing start? after it replenishes my ammo? because sometimes i shoot at enemies while i'm being resupplied. but even when i wasn't getting more ammo, it didn't repair me.
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no it wasn't in the red area, in was in the NW part of the icy map. only my turret was shooting at the dropship
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so after more hours of playing (too much if you ask me
, i've got more feedback:1) you can't see minefields on the map when you drop them (e.g. in the deployment phase). this way it's hard to guess their coverage.
also to me it seems that one minefield is too small. even placing several of them probably won't produce enough of a barier which would have strong enough strategic meaning....but i didn't test them very much, so take this with a big grain of salt.
2) the percieved weak ammo performance. i think a big part in that is played by players inability to see if he hit or not, and whether the hit penetrated. i think it's too hard to see if you hit, especially with AP ammo. a real life hit with APFSDS ammo produces a strong impact effect (in the form of lots of sparks, bright flash, and dust cloud, as i wrote earlier). in the game, i have problems determining if i hit even in very close distance. with HEAT round it's easier to see the impact, but i still think the explosion should be bigger.
seeing if i hit is important to be able to apply correctures to the next shot. errors aren't only caused by player, but also by lag.
as someone else posted somewhere, it would be usefull to know if the hit penetrated (not only when you blow off the turret), so some more smoke could help. not too much smoke, and not always.
but even when i discount how hard is it to see if i hit, i still think it's too hard to kill anything with especially AP ammo. i shot at least 5 rounds from maybe 100 meters to some light buggy's side, and it contrinued to go. the same with the Thor...and i can see it from my side, it's not that uncommon to take several rounds to the side and go on fighting. i don't think the damage should be dramatically upped, but maybe with about 30%. i'm just frustrated when i get to a tactically excelent position, ambush someone (and not just a Thor, even ligher vehicles) from the side, hit him once or twice, and he just turns the turret at me and a slug-fest starts. low damage doesn't reward good position. even if some side hit makes light damage, it doesn't really make a difference because light damage doesn't really make it harder for him to fight me.
i don't suggest a 1 shot to kill scenario (maybe in some mod
. just a bit stronger damage, to punish bad tactics a bit more. i think you don't try to make an arcade, so you should emphatize good tactics.lately i'm using HEAT more and more, even at below 2kms. it seems to kill more often, and for me it's easier to see hits. HEAT could have another effect. in real life, tankers are taught to shoot HEAT at light armored vehicles, because AP ammo (APFSDS) would just make a neat hole in them without much damage, if it doesn't hit anything important. that's because it relies on spalling to do the damage, and with light armor there's not enough armor to make enough spall (imagine hitting paper). so what if HEAT would cause more damage IF it penetrated. it could have less penetration than AP, but better behind armor effects. that would be usefull agains lighter vehicles.
3) missiles seem to quite be OK. it seems that they hit slow vehicles (thor) much more often that faster ones. i like the idea someone presented that "locked" missiles should warn the target, which could have some means of defense (smoke grenades?). but i think the manual steering should be done differently, more like the TOW. the missile would try to stay in the middle of your crosshair. now it tries to go to some point in the space given by your crosshair + distance. the TOW doesn't need the distance to target. this method wouldn't allow such crazy missile steering and is a bit harder, but without warning to the target it would be very usefull i think.
4) yep, tank acceleration. you can't pop up from turret down position, shoot and back up, because it takes too much time.
phew, sorry for the long post, i hope it's not all nonsense. i still think the game has great potential and is fun, but i'm somehow frustrated by damage/inability to see hits.
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Usually the bots will avoid deploying in the AA cover area, though sometimes they get stupid and you get a kill. The problem is, that kill is bought at the price of the other dozen AA guns you have on the map, which probably won't kill anything but are very easy to kill themselves.Originally posted by yllamana:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RIPper_SVK:
when i played the "ice" map, at least one ground turret was amazingly good at shooting down dropships. one bot insisted on droping on the same spot again and again, and the ground turret killed it again and again....i don't know how did the other turrets fare, though i placed a lot of ground turrets in the map.
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when i played the "ice" map, at least one ground turret was amazingly good at shooting down dropships. one bot insisted on droping on the same spot again and again, and the ground turret killed it again and again....i don't know how did the other turrets fare, though i placed a lot of ground turrets in the map.
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few more ideas:
1) some grid on the tactical map. 1km per square would be probably best
2) show remaining time until next arty support becomes available
3) as mentioned, better hit effects. the HEAT explosion should be bigger. if a sabot hits a vehicle, there should be a flash, lots of sparks and a dust cloud (it's looks almost like a bit smaller explosion in real life)
4) there's no need to display components that aren't damaged, they take up valuable space. only display damaged ones, with the damage level.
5) generally i think that the HUD is too big, i mean very big texts and other graphical stuff
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looks like very promising game after playing for a few hours. i had lotsa fun. i play some steelbeasts, so i'm probably a bit biased here.
things i like:
1) dropships in general....i just like the idea
2) ctrl+m for easier arty
3) the damage model, e.g. no hitpoints
4) asymetric scenarios. it's better than totally symmetric scenarios where both sides have to take an objective in the middle with the same forces
some problems:
1) the vehicle movement is a bit strange, like slow or unresponsive. it's hard to explain, but to me it seems it's hard to control the vehicles. this is even when i make a server, so it's not ping issue....e.g. it's ok for the heavy tank to be slower, but it shouldn't turn so slowly, or have problems with going forward and turn at the same time (and this isn't a problem only with the heavy tank). i don't want totally arcade movement, but just a bit more responsive and easier.
2) having to keep forward/backward pressed to move in that direction. it's quite exahusting after some time...the same with having to keep "E" pressed to zoom. it would be enough to have several speeds forward and backward, and the buttons would switch the speeds...e.g. like in steelbeasts, 3 speeds forward, stop, 1 speed backward.
3) the hovercraft are too hard to control
4) cannot control more vehicles at the same time. it would be great to be able to "own" several vehicles and give them commands, while being able to directly control any of them (see steelbeasts).
5) no automatic lead computation, like in modern tanks (e.g. computer calculates not only the elevation, but also the lead needed to hit a moving target). this was probably an intentional decision, but for me it's a bit annoying....with this the game would focus more on tactics than on gunnery, because easier gunnery would severely punish you for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
6) too hard to damage anything. it's not uncommon that i need several hits (AP or HEAT) to kill a light vehicle...also too many side hits are needed to kill the heavy tank. it's ok if the heavy tanks can shoot at each other front turrets almost without fear, but flank shots should kill very quickly.
that's all i can remember now...anyway a great job!
. but if the hit penetrates, you should see some effects later, like smoke coming from the penetration hole.
Resupply = fire mission (sometimes)
in DropTeam Demo
Posted
i also have the problem that sometimes i have to press the shortcuts for arty, emp, resupply etc several times before the game recognizes them.
i never had arty dropped instead of resupply though.