Dan Dare

...and beutepanzers?....

Guderian: Panzer Pioneer or Myth Maker? By Russell A. Hart. Washington: Potomac Books, 2006. ISBN 1-57488-810-2 After the Second World War, how the English-speaking world looked at the war was shaped by a number of influential memoirs penned by former German officers. Among the more notable of these were Erich von Manstein's Lost Victories (aka Boy, Was I Brilliant) and F. W. von Mellenthin's Panzer Battles. Few were more influential, however, than Heinz Guderian's Panzer Leader. Published in Germany in 1951 under the title Erinnerungen eines Soldaten, Guderian's memoir was translated into English and published the following year as Panzer Leader. The book proved remarkably influential in shaping perceptions as to how the German Army created its panzer arm, and Guderian's role in that process. This perception was aided by the publication, especially in the United States, of numerous books on the German Army and Air Force written by people who did not read German, or were unfamiliar with the German document collections at the U.S. National Archives. Over the past twenty years, however, the image of Guderian as the premier armor theorist in the interwar German Army has been attacked by a number of military historians in this country, including Williamson Murray, James Corum, Robert Citino, and this reviewer. The latest work in this effort is Russell A. Hart's monograph on Guderian. In its essence, Hart's book is a sustained attack on Guderian's reputation as a military theorist, field commander, and, especially, as a memoirist. Hart suggests that, while Guderian was an important armor theorist, he was by no means the only one and that Guderian's stature as Germany's premier armor theorist rested on his self-serving memoir. As a field commander, Hart argues that Guderian's successes from 1939 to 1941 were as much a matter of luck as of skill. Finally, Hart repeatedly shows where Guderian fibbed in his memoir. In regard to Guderian's relationship with the Nazi regime, Hart suggests that Guderian was less a Nazi than a "Hitlerite." While Guderian was very much an ardent right-wing nationalist, he never bought into Nazi ideology. Rather, he was personally beholden to Hitler, who was supportive of Guderian, and who gave him, like every other German general, sizeable bribes to insure loyalty. Hart uses contemporaneous documents to show where Guderian was putting forth outright lies in his memoirs. More commonly, he shows where Guderian conveniently forgot to mention any number of things, such as Hitler's bribes, that would have been rather embarrassing, to say the least. The monograph does have its problems. Hart's criticisms at times can be too sweeping. Granted, Guderian's career as a field commander was marked by sheer good fortune. This, however, can be said of just about every successful field commander. Likewise, Hart suggests that Guderian's criticism of the reorganization of German panzer divisions in 1941 has been uncritically accepted by "virtually every military historian." To back this claim, however, Hart cites only one work. This suggests that the book was written in a bit of a hurry. This monograph is certainly not the definitive biography of Guderian, and I do not think the author had that goal in mind. As a corrective to one of the more mendacious memoirs of the Second World War, Hart's work clearly hits the mark. Richard DiNardo U.S.M.C. Command and Staff College Quantico, Virginia

...nope...the mild steel sturmtiger is the one in Pz.Erst.Abt.500 (the GuBeisem one, wich was used for testing, calibrating the new gun and so) not the ones in 1000 K.p or 1001K.p. doubt I could prove with evidences nbr2 in my live...even if it is quite clear that you didn't send monsters like those at the Decebren front for shightseeing...so till here the discusion...enriching somehow... By the way, there is some photo over there showing the Kubinka sturmtiger on the train along the big one in their trip to russia

if of any help I did found this...as some kind of source to reconfirm my undestanding of it being attached to 109Pz Brg... althought it refer the hungarians excursionists to 1000 K.p., which lost one before its Ardenes show...so consistent with the transport tracking... https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/sturmtiger.php PS.- @ASL Veteran, now is only one...but remenber it has the value of more than two Elephants, why did i give up so quickly on the Warsaw one?...

Sure it is...and I do love it.. In fact I'm not talking about just one, I'm talking about three sturmtigers being actively used in the Eastern front, the one in Warsaw (that could be the mild steel one, it could be so even if BF refered to it we could discard it if you like), then we got the one in Hungary that some sources refer it was attached to the 109 Pz-Brigade Feldherrnhalle that was fightin in the area near Nyékládháza and was nearly depleted, even giving its remaining spw to the 23 PzD.... and finally, the one captured by the russians at Regezen, to the West of Brandenburg, thanks a lot to dbsapp for the traslation (it should be nbr.-250043 or 205543 depending on the source...wonder if the numbering issue have sth to be with them being "canibalized" Tigers) and if nbr 250043 is correct then it "could be" that 12th army recived whatever rest of the 1001 as part of the remanents of the 11th Army and alike formations...don´t know and I guess not much info on that days but maybe AKD got something ...>>>>too late..this guy rocks...thanks @akd...Anything on the lost track in Hungary one?

Really, are you serious...did I insult sb?...don't think so...and not to AKD or ASL for sure even if i do disagree strongly with their aproach...one cause aproach like "I know better, and you have to prove it" and the other cause just want to proof I'm mistaken...and easy task by the way...and that AKD, who is a living souce on ww2 had proved it already to me in few days ago...I do seriusly enjoyed the discussion about captured russian smg and ejoyed it a lot...and learned even more. looking at the post you are attaching i guess somebody that had a point on using a poor friend sickness to sent somehow, or imply, a message to somebody, or some other intention I could not fairly see, so as I really did not get the gallantry of that act and as all of us are a little bit crazy I just recomend friendly to him to visit an specialist, thats all. if you are thinking on my reference to the lost education, well maybe is better if I explain it a little bit, i did mean that his aproximation to the reason of elefants are in and sturmtigers out its not passing a simple calculation...2 of 91 is a 2.2%...just 1 of 19 is a 5% (and there were traces of 4, 2 almost confirmed by now actively acting inthe eastern front)...not to talk about weigth of shells or explosives...(1 shoots is around 35 times in weight that of the 88s,w of explosives around 100 times?) If after the evidence they themselves have thrown of the captured sturmtiger with the translation of the russian nicely done by dsap, (wich was the same photo I initially posted with wrong references I asumed, and was lectured that photos are somehow not a valid reference) and the transportation record of two tigers (which I was iguess mistakenly acussed of witholding ¿? to be told inmediatly that he got that source), and being none of those two the GuBeisem Sturmtiger (wich was other of the great arguments gaily throw here by someone) and one allegillaby remaining in Hungary (that of course, cause it goes against sb point of view, surely was a mistaken on the record...you known anybody could miss one Sturmtiger while counting two) I guess we will surely convince anyone that the sturmtigers weren't in the eastern front, or that they where not that relevant just by telling those arguments time and again...you know...at least BF said that if he recall it correctly just one and that it just shoot 7 times , quite more educated approach...so know we got 2 confirmed the BF and the Kubinka ...the 10% of the production..ah!....and one on vacations on Hungary in October 44 that we don't know were it have ended..and you are asking for sources...well...guess no more is needed Please, do not heasitate to contact BF if you see somebody trasspasing the line...I have myself done it in the past to stop some hot stuff around. thank you for the intention of your lecturing...but I do not think is applicable...not here and not to those respecfull gentlemen (me insulting AKD...you must be really kidding my friend...he had prove me he is quite a source on ww2 Heer with just one conversation...when I or sb else post I'm waiting his reply to learn....ASL..well...not any firm opinion yet at least not as strong as mine with AKD, but never this could mean I do not respect him and even maybe played some of his scenarios...but I'm quite special on that regard and always modify everything to my like so didn't followed him on that matter)

so you are like your friend...but instead of beliving in flying saucers you belive there were no sturmtigers in the east of the Elbe...go to see a doctor and safe your sanity...cause about your education i guess now it is too late to save it

200...never in my live thougth I will be posting 200 things...time to go back to live...

@akd and all your friends, again...much to my favor....so there were minimun 3 sturmtigers around...and unless they shifted sturmtigers to Budapest just for shightseeing...one did something over there on a hot spot and time I'm sure your intelligence is more than able to undestand the following: 1st- we are on a chat, sources are not commonly posted (unless somebody say you are wrong or to proof that somebody is wrong ) ...I said Sturmtigers were in the east front...you (not only you...the whole pack) said they not... 2nd- So, to proof it you post the same image I did posted and that one of your friends said was not proof of wether or not sturmtiger were on the eastern front...but yours not only shows russians inspecting one of the only two surviving Sturmtigers that was captured by them (with some russian hand writting and a stamp) it also shows some woodmaterial pilled...>>>>such a nice roadblock, i have just saw the rocks... 3rd- then you said it was not in Hungary, I though that you were telling Sturmtiger weren't in Hungary so I post some source showing sturmtiger were there. 4th- then you said that i'm wrong cause the one in the photo is not one of the 2 sturmtigers that where sent to Budapest (with one in doubt of being combat able, and you keep on saing there were 2 prototypes..of nineteen they built prototipes??, sorry but each nineteen were prototypes somehow...only one mild steel Last- if curious enough ,in the document I attached and that you said yo are aware of it, you will find that only one is GuBeisem... uhm... and also located the sturmtigers sent to Hungary in SturMörs 1000 line not in the Pz.Erst.Abt 500 line which got the one GuBeisem... So...finally...let me now try to undestand you....what are you trying to tell me, they were in the Eastern front or not? In case it was captured in the Elba area, I do really hope you could answer, cause maybe some funny hungarians too proud of their country had misslead me (surely)... cause after all the nonsense you (all of you)were appliying to proof sturmtigers weren't in the eastern front I´m starting to guess that surely the russian captured sturmtiger was soothing to the americans and crossed the Elba in a eastward direction while the russians arrived and the crew gave them the keys cause they love the russians...who knows......or maybe they run out of ammo or gas and runaway and then the russians saw it in the other side of the river and somehow managed to get it to their side of the river...or maybe it was crewed with some peace loving people that let the tank over there since february with a letter to however found it...>>>or the americans exchanged it for some vodka. but you know what....there were sturmtigers shifted to Budapest and the one in the photo was captured in the EASTERN FRONT.

of 19 sturmtigers 2 had survive and one was captured by the russians...91 elefants were built and 2 make a stand... @akd you are wrong there were strumtigers shifted to Budapest in October 1944 there are transport records of it... http://downloads.sturmpanzer.com/Documents/BlogDocSets/DS105.pdf

much to my favor...so it survived Budapest Don't know Russian...Elbe then?

And there comes another one...so there are no surmtigers in the east...and nbr205543 (my wrong) was captured in Nyékládháza Hungary and displayed at Kublinka tank museum due to magic? Do you know that Nyékládháza Hungary is 150km east from Pest? Do you at least know what was going on east of Budapest on October-November-December44?, could you now guess why the one that returned to Warsaw was the cast Iron prototype? do you know that on those days SturmTigers belong to the panzertruppen? as per wikipedia (such a good reference) it was captured by Soviet forces in the Elbe area in April 1945...so for you to select... really feed up... that reminds me a lot of when I argued about KV1Ss being in Bagration back in the days that CMRT was in the oven (even they were in1945 at the Oder...)... my answer here is the same...you are wrong...anyway I do hope the result will differ.

@ASL Veteranthe nbr 250043 does not sound as a prototype... move along...I'm playing...

unquote

@ASL VeteranASL...why don't you check the unit history and move along... in fact there were only two in action from august to october (i was wrongly recalling 3 ) On August 12, 1944 an entry in the 9th Army records indicates a battery of 3 vehicles of 38 cm Sturm-Mörser with the first arriving on August 13th. There is indication that one of the vehicles is an experimental unit which likely means this is a prototype. August 14th notation indicates that 3 Tiger mit 38cm Werfer are expected with the first arriving on the 14tht or 15th. On August 15th one Tiger has arrived at Blonie at 11:09 hours and that a second Tiger is expected on the 16th. On August 17th the second Tiger arrives and there is never mention of a third Tiger with 38cm Werfer again. The daily panzer inventory report shows 2 Panzer VI with 38 cm. The daily panzer inventory continues to show 2 vehicles until October 10th after which time they no longer show up. There is no documentation that I have found in the 9.AOK records that indicates if the units have been reassigned at this time however on October 15th there is a note that Stum-Mrs.Kp.1000 would be on transport to XXXXVI.Pz.K. in Budapest on October 16th 1944. The company with both Sturmtigers was loaded on a train and sent to Hungary on October 17th. The train is then immediately returned to Warsaw but apparently with only a single Sturmtiger. This Sturmtiger arrived in Warsaw-West on October 20th at 00:10 hours. The single Sturmtiger left in Hungary may have been captured by the Russians and could be the Sturmtiger currently in Kubinka. Beginning on October 21st Sturm-Mörse Kp.1000 again shows up on the daily panzer inventory of the 9 Army but showing only a single vehicle. It remains on this report until November 19th. On November 18th, 1944 the unit appears on the 9th Army shipment report indicating it would be leaving Warsaw on November the 22nd on train number 231 295 with a destination of Tr.Üb.-Platz Sennelager. A notation on the report of November 23 indicated that the unit left on the scheduled train on November 22 at 18:22 hours.

Sturmtiger – captured prototype chassis number: 250043, Nyékládháza Hungary Eastern Front PS.-Sturmtiger of the Sturm-Mörser-Batterie 1000, so...more than 2...

finalized my dinner...back to Berlin!!!

many thanks!!!!!!

Heer was quite strong on that matter...guess some would not be lectured by no wearing it but was quite rare. Don´t know where I did read it but a Jr officer from the Lw was confronted by a Herr Hauptmann and punished to guard in some post... but once I did said this...variety is nice...so having the option of getting some rascals wearing it would be great...

you can but then it will affect around all those who use the mdr...example, if you change helmest for caps...then all around no helmets and you have to trace all bmps affected too... mine is a little less complicated cause I just want them in my tank commanders... by the way, tank crews (not commanders) come with m43 on...depending on climate as @MikeyD just said

While doing crazy things within the editor I did found: - glitch on sturmpanzer IV, HQ not selectable by clicking. (further investigation should be needed but... I could not ...need to enjoy the game...)>>>>>>only early sturmpazer afected...not dependance of HQ - could not find anywhere the 75mm 1eIG37, and neither on the specialist teams list (but double 18's...??) Also to get some mods to work as intended and some specifics I do work a little whith the mod tools (now I got m43 caps on my tankers!!! Hurrah!!!!) and I did found this: - sturmtiger...not in the manual, it was on the web TOE but now is not, but...you know...it is there, I mean the mdr and Bmps, next to a very nice surprise (which had the mdr there and the bmp in another place!!!). - and also I did finally found mdrs and bmps of my dear 75mm 1eIG37...but is missing maybe , this or I'm getting too nervous cause.... YOUR GAME ROCKS!!!!

nobody set such rules...

done...all the bandwith for you guys...see you in Berlin!!!