imported_no_one
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Posts posted by imported_no_one
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Why won't you people grow up.Stop leaning on the little QB's and flaggies like a childhood blankie.Play a huge advance/assualt operation PBEM against a valued and liked opponent--don't start one versus someone you have never played before.I have said this until I am blue in the face.No one seems to listen.
In QB's it is all but impossible for one side or the other to completely eliminate anything.In an operation it is different.In an advance/assualt operations EVERYTHING is different.Much more realistic,much more valuable for experience,etc.
In regard to some of the things that Nemisis Lead posted.The reason that the majority of advice given on this board doesn't work for people is because the advice given is so broad.JasonC always talks about some perfect battle on some perfect battle map.Most everyone else talks about weee little QB's and flaggies,I talk about huge operations.This,in my opinion,is why some advice seems wrong,some of the time.
Ultimately,any narrow-minded way of thinking is wrong.Sometimes you gotta do this,sometimes you gotta do that....
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GS_Guderian,
Could you maybe explain your position on this topic a little better?
I agree with what YankeeDog said.And while the CMx1 engine may not perfectly model this,it tries.I would also imagine that the CMx2 engine will do it better.And I know,without a shadow of a doubt,that in RL,height advantage made/makes a difference.
Look at this example:
A tiger is defending,and is simply sitting on a hill.Now,it has no business being hulldown to anything on the map.There is nothing in front of it,and it isn't on the reverse slope of the hill.However,there is a t-34 at the base of the hill.Both AFV's have LOS to one another.They are hull down!Why is that?Because the land litterally prevents any rounds from finding the front lower hull on either vehicles.Now,apply the same to infantry in foxholes.
If the infantry on the hill,in the foxhole,take cover or hide,it should be all but impossible to hurt them with small arms fire(In RL anyhow).On the other hand,the infantry at the base of the hill,also in a foxhole,will have to take cover/hide in the forward aspect of the foxhole,or else.If you try and go prone in the foxhole,your legs may be exposed.The defenders on the hill will never have any more than their heads,and upper chest exposed.Truthfully,in this situation,the defenders should have an exposure(to the enemy at the base of the hill)similar to that of infantry in a trench(like 9%)and the attackers should have the defense rating of a foxhole,but reduced.
You see what I am saying.
I also seem to recall a discussion on whether or not a HMG will be more effective/modeled correctly,when firing down on vehicles from a second story building.Like if all the armor of the vehicle was too thick for the HMG to penetrate,but the armor on top wasn't,kind of thing.IIRC,the answer was yes.
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I'm always cheery :mad: ..er um,I mean
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Hello.I play really large advance/assault operations PBEM.Never play the small ones.Most planes I have ever seen in any given battle was something like 2-3 of my planes flying around versus 2-3 of his planes.So maybe 4-6 total.In most cases just a couple total.I can see whay you are so diligent with your AA :eek:
What do you mean by the trick being for naught?Planes come at sporadic times,while I think the setup is the "trick",you would possibly have time to reset the AA assets to their original position.But again,the "trick" isn't actually a trick,it's just a good setup.If there were that many planes,I would hope to have more AA,and then I would add another layer to the AA depth,but otherwise,I think my setup would still accommodate more planes.
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Good observation MikeyD.Regardless the size of the AA gun,I try and keep them in my rear area,and will typically have them along the edges of the map.If I am attcking to the north,I will have on AA to the SW,and one to the SE.I then have them turn so that they are almost looking at each other.The one to the west is looking east,etc.But I put a slight off angle on it.This way,regardless of size,there is often an AA assets that won't have to rotate very far to get fire on the plane.You will oftentimes also get an effect where one AA fires into the cockpit of the plane on its attack approach,and then the other one picks it up and fires into the planes rear as it flys away.Having the AA fire bothering the plane on its attack run is very beneficial.Originally posted by MikeyD:A small matter.
I've found that if you've got a couple of the bigger 37/40mm AA guns its best not to set them all up pointing in the same direction (all pointing straight east). That pretty much guarantees the plane will come in from behind (west) and drop its eggs on them before the guns can slew around.
The smaller guns (.50cal/20mm) are usually quick enough to swing 'round and acquire the target in time.
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Esentially it's like this.If you have your HMG's firing from inside of 250m(unless they are highly experienced or have a plus two to stealth)they WILL be spotted,and they WILL die!Period.So,hold your fire until 100m,maybe inflict a few casualties,not use but a tiny fraction of your ammo,and then die.Or,lean on the attacker,slow them down,use all of your ammo.Let them take their sweet time strolling across the open ground.In the meantime,you get to adjust your forces to perfectly accomodate where the attacker is going.You can move your armor into keyholes to engage the slwoly advancing enemy infantry.Rout a few away,slip back into the shadows.The attacker is left rushing armor all of the map in a desperate futile attempt to protect his infantry that is hung out there.
Pinned is an emotional state just like the others.Your troops may only be pinned,but it also only takes just a little more to push them over the edge.Look for the likely avenues of advance,and pre-sight all the little spots of cover that you know an attacker will use.With long range MG fire,you not only pinn,but you can inflict cover panic as well.This will often times(especially when dealing with a large attacking force)result in several infantry units caught in one little patch of scattered trees.There are tricks that you can use to help regulate how much ammo a on map mortar fires.Pump a few rounds into the patch of sct trees,if they are already "pinned",they may very well panic/break if enough rounds find their mark.If they weren't pinned,they are now!Now you've created a bottle-neck.Either he has to wait until the troops in question rally,or he has to find other routes of advance,or he has to push even more troops through that dangerous patch of cover.
When having HMG's engae from a distance,and you are concerned about using all of your ammo,have half of the total number of HMG's fire for turn 1,then have the other half fire for turn two.Repeat.Mkaes it harder to find them,extends their ammo.You still get to slow him down,perfectly spot what he has,and where it is going.
As the attacker gets closer,have all of the HMG's open up.Think of it like force,the more force that the attacker applies,the more you apply in return.Fire from a distance to by yourself time,adjust your forces,begin the attrition effort.As they get closer add more and more firepower.
Always try and defend out of the backside of cover.When you know that the enemy is about to encounter one of your forward scouts during the next turn.Give them a small(40m)cover arc,and issue an advance/assault command back through the cover and out of LOS.Pause the movement command until later in the turn.If all goes well,you have a succesful ambush,and your guys jump up and get out before all the fire starts coming in.
Edit to add:
There is also a long range HMG technique that I use called mass firing.This can be applied to a platoon versus platoon engagement,but you'll get the idea.Once you get experienced with long range tactics,you will learn how to distribute your own fire.Once you pick a target,maybe its the furthest enemy unit up the map,or looks like a sweet,juicy,slow moving support unit.Have all of your HMG's firing on them.It's amazing what all that completely ineffective,"only good for pinning fire",can do.Especailly when it is coming from many different angles.
[ April 25, 2005, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: no_one ]
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Can a flak even target a plane out of deep cover?I would be disappointed if it could.That would have to simulate the cutting down of foliage and stuff,and to my knowldege other units can't do that.
I always have them on the edge of good cover.
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I understand where you are coming from,and to my knowledge this may be something that will be fixed in CMX2--as I know it will have 1:1 representaion.
The thing for me though,I play really large engagements,so not only am I normally not concerned with an individual,I am also normally not concerend with an entire platoon or two.I guess at company level I begin to worry.
I guess for me,the concern of what 1:1 may take away from me,is more important than any benefits 1:1 may have to offer.
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Don't that sh*t piss you off?People and their assumptionsOriginally posted by Panzer_M:{snipped}....Btw, don't treat me like a Noob, I've been around since the days of BO, but I never post and changed from a earilier account.
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Setup so that you can fall back.As a general rule,don't make assumptions.Plan for the worst,when it happens,you are either ready,or more ready than you would have been.Breaking LOS/contact isn't as hard as it seems sometimes,you just have to learn the tricks associated with it.Look at a heavy building for example.You can place a squad in a position where they can just barely see out,and can only be seen by a few enemy units.You can do this by placing the squad near the center of the building,or you can have them take advantage of the corners in the building to do this.
Lets say that the fighting starts at the 15 second mark of turn one.By the end of the turn you have one squad that is taking some heat from a few enemy squads.There are a few things you can try:
1)During the orders phase for turn two,issue a very small cover arc to the squad in question so that there aren't and won't be any enemy units within the arc,then tell them to hide--Do Not forget to cancel their target command.Depending on experience,HQ bonuses,and the squads willingness to follow orders,they should break contact(turn into a icon)during the turn.Sometimes they refuse the order,take that as a sign that they want to stay and fight.Use them to get others out.
Should it work,in the next orders phase,issue a small assualt command back in the direction that you want to fallback.Often times they will take some parting fire as they leave,the assualt command will hopefully make it so that they keep going.It normally does.You can also help to eliminate some of the "parting fire" by giving your squad another small cover arc that will make them face in the direction that they will retreat.Rotaion in correspondence with a cover arc IS NOT the same as giving a rotate command.A rotate command will cause hidden units to be spotted,whereas the cover arc rotation will not--this can also be applied to on map mortars and guns.If they have been moving and need to setup,you can use cover arcs to orientate their facing without hampering the setup time,unlike the rotate command.This works for guns,MG's,etc..By doing this,your units begins the next turn by turning in the direction that they will assualt.There will be no delay while they jump up and turn around before leaving.
2)If you have,and you should,units that are a few hundred meters behind the units that you are trying to fallback,you can have them put fire on the attackers to either pinn/distract,or outright draw their fire away from the other squad.This will help in alllowing the forward squad to break contact.
GS_Guderian
Your concept of the CM squad is not entirely correct.Think of the squad dynamic as global morale.If your squad is panicing that means that either the majority,or all of the members are freacking out.It is like a percentage,when enough members in the squad break,eventually the whole thing will.NOT all that unrealistic,all things considered.
Hope some of this helped.
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Thank you for the input.I have seen other result's that make me believe differently.I will take your advise into consideration.
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Going back to the original question.IMHO,the two most important factors to consider are:
1)The concentration of enemy armor(how many will be in the arty's area of effect)
2)what the terrain type is under them.
I do not waste time doing scenario editor test's,I wait until I experience these things in-game.And based on experience(though limited experience),81/82mm FO with like 6-9 tubes,firing on armor that is on road,pavement,and possible even rocky,will be significantly more damaging.NOT to kill,but to immobilize,gun damage,dead TC.The short delays mean no need for a TRP,and it is no where near as expensive as the big stuff.Plus the much more concentrated spread,means more of the good stuff falling where you need it.
To the contrary,I would imagine that if the terrain type were mud,deep mud,snow,deep snow,and maybe other's,the arty will be less effective.It's all about the splash damage with the lighter stuff.
I would never,unless completely desperate,waste big arty on armor.Nor would I try and setup the little "trap" necessary to use the whole TRP idea.Not to mention the "needle in the hay-stack" chance you have that they will stop close enough to the TRP.
Everyone is more than welcome to test it and prove me wrong.But based on experience,or just really bad luck,I had two PzIII's all but instanly immobilzed/gun-damaged.One had both,and the other I managed to back out of the area of effect with only a damaged gun in the following turn.
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To my knowledge,a MMG/HMG that is given an area-target order will have it's maximum firepower,for that particualr spot,cut in half,but it will have an area of effect of around 50m.I think it is more of an oval shape than a circle,but you get the idea.
Have some of your squads advance & hide,and have some assualt & hide.The ones that advance will have shorter waypoint lengths,and the assualters(who should also be of higher experience--if possible)will have longer waypoints--though they will be used less often so that they may rest.All of them should stop moving and hide at some point before the turn ends,and keep them in cover.Yes,brush,wheat,steppe,is cover.It wont' stop the bullets from getting to you,but it makes it so that they can't see you.A plus one or two to stealth,command,and morale are very important for the units that are making the big push.Though not all are required.
Move multiple targets at once,and have them spread out.This makes it more difficult for the defender to engage all of them,and keeps them from firing for very long at any one single squad.Not to mention the bonus of less effective enemy arty.Less stuff to hit.
In the case of advancing multiple squads all at the same time,and nice and spread-out.If you notice that some of them aren't taking any fire.You can try giving maybe a 100m cover arc and issue a move to contact & hide command.This way,they only stop when they recieve some sort of fire,and they will hide also.This allows you to move troops without them getting tired out,but without the worry that comes with "move" or "run" or something.
Don't go the gamey route.It will ruin it for someone.Hopefully only the person doing the gamey stuff,but unfortunately that is rarely the case.
I am curious as to why you don't have any on-map mortars,or arty,or direct fire HE,etc....?A smoke screen would have made the whole thing alot more simplistic.
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Not for my sake.I'll stick with my own tactics,thanks!
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I know,I know.You can see earlier in the thread that I took the stance that you were doing this to help new players,and that I was thankful as well.It's just so damn much fun taking shot's at you,dude.I just can't help it.Right now I am involuntarily poking my monitor with my finger over your name in the hopes that I can somehow provoke you.I just can't help it
Besides,you love to debate all this crap and you know it!
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....not a single turn.... poor inbox
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Uh,yeah,I know.That is what I am saying.The only way you can stop an attack of the sort that you mention(100 men vs. a battalion)is to try and keep them away.
Otherwise,I miss the point entirely,and maybe you should do a article on *how to* stop a battalion worth of men with only a hundred.I atleast tell people something that might,and I say might,give them a chance.Instead of how to do something that,as you say,can't even be stopped to begin with.
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Esentially what JasonC is showing here,is the exact same concept behind the Half-Squad Hordes--remember that debate?LOL.
The only difference is that it doesn't exploit a "flaw" in the game.
You used to could do the same thing in CMBO.If you have an attacking force,and are playing against the AI,you can simply have all your stuff just move from one end of the map to the other.They take losses,sure,but they also overwhelm the defenders with numbers and firepower.Doesn't always work,depends on terrain and such...
To stop what JasonC shows in this attack,the key is not to defend the village,or deny access to it,but instead to deny on the approach to the objective.Reach out and touch someone,don't wait for them to come to you,or to cross some line in the sand.At distance,the majority of your support weapons(when used properly)will be all but invisible.
Also,just like it is often easier to rout the enemy forces,it is easier to slow them down than to stop them,and virtually every scenario I have ever seen,only has so much time.
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I hate when that happens...... :mad:
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That's some speedy service,Maggot :eek: :mad: </font>Originally posted by PseudoSimonds:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by no_one:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by _Axe_:
I just walked in the door! :mad:
It's already sent! :mad:
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That's some speedy service,Maggot :eek: :mad:Originally posted by _Axe_:I just walked in the door! :mad:
It's already sent! :mad:
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Though I did not read all of it,I would say that the piece written by JasonC more than accomplished the task of
Despite already knowing the information presented here,I am thankful that people like JasonC take the time to do stuff like this.With the free picture hosting at Imageshack I don't understand why more people don't do stuff like this.Whether it is in asking questions,or giving advice...... :shrug:...... and in particular to show relatively new players how to beat the AI with conscripts, without tanks, and while attacking rather than defending:mad:
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Double-blind.Otherwise,just play with FOW turned off
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Artillery Test Fire
in Combat Mission - Tips and Tricks
Posted
Prep fire on an attackers setup zone is gamey as hell.I am glad it didn't work for you.