SeaWolf_48
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Posts posted by SeaWolf_48
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Good topic JJ
Russia deserves a port in Batumi in South-East Black Sea so she can resupply Sevastopol from the sea with land units.
Hitler was consumed with the histroy and importance of the Crimea. He left and wasted German troops there so Russia could not use it for a Unsinkable Aircraft Carrier to bomb the Oil fields in Romania.
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GOOD TOPIC
Lets see what happened when Germany wanted more units from 1944 and on.
1) Made Divisions smaller, which decreased firepower. Panzer Div. went from 350 tanks to 100 tanks and Tankdestroyers. Infantry divisions went from 10 battalions too 7 bat. (three regiments of three battalions, down to two reg. of three bat. + one eng bat.)
2) The draft went from 18 thru 45, to 14 thru 59. The degree of human quality went down.
3) Pilot training when from 500 hours to 50 hours.
In all cases if you wanted more from less, you got less.
So if we set a limit for Germany, she would get all the units to the limit set for the same price, and then above that she would get decreased units strenghts above the limit set.
I just got done reading a great Book about Panzers, and Germany had 38 PZ Div and 27 PG Div. 65 Armored Divisions. 21 were destroyed and rebuilt making her real total 86 Div. That's alot of Armored Div's. Almost 20% of all divisions. 1 of 5. What persentage do we have in SC?
I would also like the be able to decrease the unit strenght at any time during the game. e.g. placing a corps in a city at 10 st. pts, then decreasing it to 5 pts, and placing those pts to other units.
[ March 05, 2003, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: SeaWolf_48 ]
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Thanks for your answer Bill. (SC or SC2)
There are eleven items in the research chart. 12 would be an even dozen. If you took a pole about 5 of these catagorizes, I think that you would find that, Adv. Subs, sonar, rockets, never get points, and rarely points for bombers and gun radar. If Amphibious Assult was the only way you could advance on a beach, then you would have to spend MMP's on the technology.
I respect your opinion about the game, but must disagree that not much research went into Amphibious Landings.
Troop ships had to be standardized to accomidate the Higgins boats, LST's became so important that Ike postponed Normandy from May to June because he couldn't get enough LST's until June for Normandy. The DUWK unloaded most of the supplies off of Omaha after the June storm. Swimming tanks, the experience of Dieppe, the training of Paratroops, the Mulberries, UDT, Commando's, Rangers, and Engineers were all specialized and training for the Normandy landing along with all the research for all these items to work. That training took about six months before the landing.
How about a special Landing HQ, that could supply troops like a port! It only last four turns before being removed. You must capture a port after that. It would exist offshore so that it didn't occupy a land hex.
Level 0 no landings, L1 a weak Corps, L2 a stronger Corps,etc... L5 D-Day landing unstoppable.
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Totally Agree John.
Amphibious Assult. Level 0 none, L1 a weak Corps, L2 stronger etc.
L5, D-Day equipment, unstoppable!
This should be the 12th item in the research chart.
I never buy sonar, sub, or rocket. Sometimes, bomber or Gun laying radar, all the rest get points in some order of importance. This needs another topic though!
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Well John, I've been away for a while, you have alot of postings, a busy beaver!
What did you think of designated beach hexes?
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Well John, what the hell is wrong with you, you want the game to be more historic? I assume that Air Force units are around 500 to 1000 planes (who knows though, no one will comment on the unit size), the Barbarrosa Scenario has three german air units like the historical amry did, and thay had 3,000+ planes of all types.
Germany in the openning years, Britian in No. Africa, the Ruskies in 44, and the US in France, were successful because the had Air Superiority. Blitzkrieg and any assult wouldn't work without it. Having 10 air units destroying one ground unit stinks. Your right!
With the current game engine what can you do? The real solution is to have a front area where air units have superiority or not, but how do you do this now!
Also limiting the damage a plane can do to units would help, say 1 strength pt max, or readiness and or entrenchment only.
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Welcome Men. Great topic.
It seems that Bills ideas all revolve around using this amphibious assult in conjuction with SC and not SC2. I might be wrong.
I think the first item must be having beaches to land on. Germany and England (in 1940) did not have to cover all of the coast line at one time like the game now portrays. A landing beach hex should be developed.
Almost any troops could be landed on a beach after a little trainning, but developing the technology to land on a beach took a lot of research and industry tooling. Higgins boats, LST's, LCI, LCP, LCT. DUWK's etc, were years in development. We really need a research item on the research chart too develop Amphibious Assult.
With the no stacking rule, the only way to conquer the beach is if the defending unit would retreat during combat. This is a point that I keep bringing up, but a strong German unit defending a beach hex with a 3 rating and 12-14 points will never be completely destroyed unless you have 10 or more Air units, with BB's. But if the German unit in Normandy was attacked with a strong Infantry unit with strong Air support and Navel bombardment, and Paratroops, it would retreat-not be completely destroyed. Then the Infantry Corps could land on the beach (I think that a Infantry Corps should be the only unit capable of landing on the beach, also, whoever you are that mentioned that).
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For Shaka
I agree with your comments, About carriers and the rest. SC is still the best Strategic Game to date, but like all games it can improve.
Airpower was rough on ground troops, when they had complete control of the air as in Poland 1939, Russia 1941, No. Africa 1943, and Normandy 1944. But the most that a Corps should loose is 1 maybe 2 pts. max from airpower, and never be completely destroyed. Carriers on the scale of SC, well, what is a 100 planes, when a Air Fleet is atleast 1000 to 2000 planes. But units in SC are more like chess men, and not specific units.
[ February 19, 2003, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: SeaWolf_48 ]
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Great list, I can see I need a few more books. There is one book I have not found that I enjoyed 20 years ago called "Eastern Front 1941-43". Has anyone found this book? I can't find it anywhere.
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YOUR DOING A GREAT JOB ZAPP, keep up the good work!
Why would Axis declare war against USA anyway?
Actually Germany did declared war against the US on Dec 11, 1941. but that's not what is best for this game. The why of Germany declaring war, Hitler thought that the weak Americans infected by Roosevelt and his Jewish friends would crumble under Axis willpower. But not in his wildest dreams did he understand the resolve and ecomonic power that the Arsenal of Democracy would yield against him.
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Hay Jersey
A while back you asked what other computer war games are good. I do recommend Talonsoft's West Front 2, and East Front 2. They have been out a few years now and you can get the whole thing for a steal.
It's battalion size warfare, can be larger but it takes too long. Has lots of scenario's with game and at wargamer there's a lot more. There is also a Jap version, I don't care for it.
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Hay Waltero
This is what happened during the war, Mussolini was just waiting to see if France would fall. He was a coward, and his country was not ready for war. He wanted Hilter to wait until 1942 before attacking the weak decident democracies. Hitlers Generals and Admirals also wanted Hitler to wait until 1942 or later, around 1945.
When Mussolini attacked France Roosevelt said, " the knife of the fiend has struck the back of his neighbor".
The reason that Hitler started the war when he did, was because he was turning 50 years old. He said that he wanted to lead the fight before he got old.
Churchill was trying at this time to pursuade Mussolini not to fight for the Germans, but ally themselves with their WW1 friends, England and France.
So as the Germans get closer to Paris, the Italian persentage should go higher, because of Mussolini becoming more confident of France and England loosing the war.
[ February 15, 2003, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: SeaWolf_48 ]
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Hay JJ and Genghis
During one of our many postings, the idea came up to have intellegence be part of the Research Menu.
This would work just like reseaching Jet flight, you buy research points and then the bar starts to grow. This choise would be the result of Photo planes, radio listening stations, spys, recon and partisans. The higher the number in research the more hidden enemy units would be shown. This could be random or units closest too cities, or frontlines.
Sounds good to me!
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Well John I sure like your story about sitting in NYC (been there once, didn't like it, too busy) in the UN park.
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Great subject guys. That cold 1941 winter.
Everyone is adding good arguments for having some kind of penalty for winter in Nothern Europe. We have all read of the problems that the Germans had, but the Ruskies had their problems too. Actually the mud was worse than the snow for moving supplies. Trucks and tanks got stuck in the mud, and welcomed when the ground would freeze so they could move again.
Oct mud, Nov snow, Dec more snow Frozen ground, Jan even more snow, Feb less snow, Mar less snow, Apr mud, May maybe no mud but could still be muddy. June campaign time again until Oct mud. That's four good months to kill eachother. General Mud was the worst for movement. Also during muddy months the casulities went up because men would not dive to the ground when mortar or artillary rounds came in, because they didn't like lying in mud!
This is what I've read about Russia, some of you who live near there, or have been there during these months could comment about the Russia winter.
Do you know that Germany had more troops in Finland than No. Africa. They had three corps near Manmursk (9 divisions), and one Mtn division in the south, plus several tank destroyer Battalions. This area of battle is never recreated in war games. One reason is because it make the map so big, but with the computer games that shouldn't be a ptoblem. There are no limitations on making a map in computer games, only how much storage will you limit yourself too. Adding the Lapland is not that much more!
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HQ's and MPP's are the heart of the game, if there is a staring point for the game we need to have the information that make them work.
NATO is dead, France and Gemany will hopefully kill it, if we don't back up Turkey then what good is the organization?
The UN is our biggest enemy, hope 1441 fails, so we can get it out of our country. China has 1100 diplomats their, all spys, why do you need 1100 diplomats! We give the most money to it and the UN turns that money around against us, stupid!
Iraq is now the committee for human right in the UN, and Libya is the chairmen for disarmament, what are they thinking? Some one said that they do these offices alphabetically, maybe No. Korea should be the monitor for nuclear weapons!
Did you know that 105 octane gasoline was top secret and the germans didnot discover it until they captured a downed Mosquito and drained the fuel tanks. They tested the Merlin engine with their gasoline and found that the engine had less H.P. than they knew it could put out. They checked the gasoline that they drained out (made in Brea California) and found that it had more octane than their own gasoline. The high octane gasoline gave the engines 5% more power. That's a lot of H.P., 1475 BHP becomes 1548 BHP.
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Damn French, they always are going the opposite direction from everyone else. Even now with Iraq, Iraq owes them so much money for military stuff and technical supplies, and they get all of their oil cheap from Hussain, so they don't care about how dangerous he is, just please leave him alone you bad American Imperist who only want his oil. Germany is wacked out because half of the New Germany is made up of eastern german commies, socialist, american haters. But that's not important, what about SC and its ability to handle HQ's.
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Air Fields shouldnot be placed in mountains, or marshes, I've tried it and SC now allows Air Units to be placed in them.
I cannot remember one time during WW2 when an army ever destroyed aircraft on the ground. They simple flew away. A couple times during the Russian winter offense around Stalingrad airfields were overrun, but most all the aircraft had fled, and the main body of planes were gone and some broken or to cold to start Junker Tri-motors (Ju-86's) were left. Ground crews had to build fires under the engines to warm them up, and they learned from capture Russian airmen to keep alcohol in the oil so it wouldn't freese. Anyway airunits should not be effected by infantry.
Just like airunits or ship bombardment should not completely destroy ground units, when did that ever happen? Tarawa and Iwo Jima proves that.
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For JJ: (I like your article on No. Afr and Rommel)
Like all these topics, they start off one way and metimorph into something else.
As far as HQ's and their value, the US Army in 1942 was green. From the top to the bottom. Rommel said that he never saw an army change as much as the Americans. Therefore.
Historic example:
US HQ Jan - Jul 1942 = 5. Aug - Dec 1942 = 6. 1943 = 7 1944 = 8.
BR HQ 1939-42 = 6, 1943 = 7. 1944 = 8.
If Allies loosing, first of all how do you know if they are loosing? HQ's wouldn't grow, and possibly lessen.
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For Minotaur
Yes, 6th Army was captured with 23 Generals, other Generals have been captured here and there (both allied and axis in Africa), but never was a Army Group HQ captured, not a Army HQ, a Army Group HQ.
For JJ
Okay, your right, allow stacking with HQ's, but can this game platform handle stacking? It should!
For Shaka
I think giving each country a generic leadership value would be best. This becomes somewhat subjective, but also somewhat historic because of the same military machine in each country building it's own Army HQ, plus how much does one man at the top make a difference if the people below him are no good (Zhukov), or if the Leader is weak and the Staff below him is outstanding (Hitler). Like I said this is subjective, but so is making Rommel an 8, Manstein a 9, and Monty a 8, Patton a 7?
Something like this......
Wehrmacht HQ, OKW, creates Army Group HQ's of 8.
British Imperial HQ, builds Army Group HQ's of 7.
US High Command, builds Army Group HQ's of 7.
USSR High Command, Stavka, builds HQ's of 6.
Italy builds HQ's of 5.
France builds HQ's of 4.
Or during whatever year it is the HQ's all change there level together. Ger '40 HQ's=8, Ger '44 HQ's=7, Ger '45 HQ's=6, showing there connection to however their countries war is going. Zhukov 1st Ukarine HQ in '42=6, but in '45 HQ=7. You no what I'm getting at!
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For JJ
I was reading about Malta and to my supprise, the English lost 1000 planes around Malta, the Italians lost 400, and the Germans 700 planes. That's a lot of dying and hardware lost for a very small Island 50 miles from Sicily.
Because of Ultra the English knew when the Italian supply ships would travel from Taranto to Tripoli. German Luftwaffe General Kesselring wanted Malta destroyed and moved a Air Wing into Sicily to destroy English air defense, but the Brit's hung tough, and destroyed three fourths of Italian shipping trying to get thru.
All told, the RAF lost as many pilots as the battle of britain around Malta.
Shocking results.....
With Stalingrad mounting up, Rommel and the Afrika Army (Rommel insisted to call it an Army instead of Korp, his ego I guess) recieved less and less of everything, plus the Malta factor.
[ February 13, 2003, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: SeaWolf_48 ]
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Actually the main point of the weak HQ's was to allow Panzer breakthru's and then to surround enemy units which would become weak, thus the breakthru units being supplied by a cooridore of units wouldnot get destroyed by the surrounded units, like happens now. Also giving the HQ more units of supply, to 12 instead of 5. Finally which other wargame allows you to defend with HQ's? HQ TO&E's have a few Engineer Bat, some arty, a couple fat Generals, their girlfriends, a hairdresser, one Italian Chief, motor pool and signal groups. Hardly frontline battle troops.
Tanks
[ February 12, 2003, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: SeaWolf_48 ]
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To JJ
During Barbarrosa Germany had three Army Groups.
Group North under Leeb,
Group Center under Bock, and Group South under von Rundstedt, their front from Finland to the Black Sea was around 1200 miles. Divide by three that's 400 miles each. Divide by 50 mile hexes and you get 8 hexes area, supply units were behind air strike limits, so they were back aways. Making supply routes from supply units to the front about 200 miles behind the lines. HQ's should be able to supply units over a 6 hex limit putting the HQ away from the main line, so the precious hexes shouldn't be a problem. Also letting the HQ supply more than 5 of the closest units, more like 12 units.
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I guess I differ from you guys on this point. I approach the game as a General and not a Diplomat, although Ike was a great diplomat. After playing hundreds of diferent war games I guess that the most important thing is how well all the parts work with eachother. That is combined arms against enemy forces, air and naval forces and their action against others.
If Stalin lets Hilter have Zimbabwe I don't care, but if tanks are shooting down bombers, or if corps are being destroyed by HQ units then I'm bugged.
Combat and SC2
in Strategic Command 1
Posted
Wow Arby, your the first person to point out the atvantage of the offensive attack!
The German Wehrmacht did attack with less men than the Russians because of their coordination of conbined arms (Panzer, Grenidier/Infantry and Stuka's). Some war games give the attacker a bonus if they attack with combined arms, I wish SC did.
Your also right about the losses for the Germans in 1941 (900,000), they never made good those losses, and the flower of their youth were pushing up daisies. Russia could make up their losses however, the first two years they lost 4.5 mil men, and still had more reserves for 1944. How to get this into the game would take some real thought.
The game is tied to MPP's, so somehow Russia needs to recieve more MPP's even though she looses the resource points in the western part of Russia.
Looking forward to your next postings.