SeaMonkey

And still full of it, I might add!

Violation of airspace has always been a frequent occurrence since the invention of flight, whether intentional or not. Mistakes happen.......on purpose sometimes, evreyone understands, its not a war catalyst, but it should have some repercussions, but not in SC. Think about it, you station AFs and Bombers next to an unbelligerent and peek into their territory. Just how do you think that info is revealed? Then you station a bunch of combat troops on the border in a clear act of presumed aggression. Come on...get out of here, those actions don't serve to cause alarm? Its appropriate, but a little to complicated for our SC to simulate, the world is complicated enough, let's keep this game where its at for that parameter, its fun, subtly engrossing, balanced, and finishable. Ever think about how many games you truly complete, sans surrenders.

Wise words DD and what fun you can have creating that "man".........ehh? :cool:

Sorry Moon, the Panther Prowlers have the RTS market locked up, and the fourth installment of "Battles from the Bulge" is sure to be epic for us BotB fans. If you guys liken yourself to commanders, the Airborne Assault engine is the epitome of the wargaming experience, other than really being there. You just can't imagine what your missing....oh well....they say ignorance is bliss!

A moment of prayer..................yes it seems that Normal Dude has succumbed to the rampant oppressive call of imperialistic Fascism. The Axis have literally gone wild. The perverted Nazis not being satisfied with their Norwegian concubines saw fit to add to their stables by back stabbing the Swedes. Rape and pillage from the skies as two full Fallschirmjager corps descend and curiously target only the famous Swedish Spas. HMmmmm??? Well with the loss of such national treasures the Swedes could not go on and so humbly surrendered. May we pray??.................yes my SC brethren because of all your thoughful prayers the Royal Navy happen to stumble upon a scourge of wolfpacks departing the North Sea area. Through skillful maneuver and devout discipline the evil threat was vanquished. In keeping with that well known British humanity, beachballs were tossed to the helplessly swimming German mariners so that they would not fall prey to hypothermia. A humorous moment was observed by RN surveillance as the Norwegian concubines were seen in a fit of laughter as their conquerors made the beach with their aspects in a very shrivelled state. But not all was gay, for in the Med the Italians are pressing forward and testing the Egyptian defenses with naval sorties. Bloody exchanges from both sides leave the Regina Marina with only two very damaged cruiser task forces in the vicinity. Again through skillful coordination of land bombers, carriers and battleship groups, the sea floor is now littered with the hulks of many Italian war vessels. Not to be intimidated the Italians invade Greece, but initially are repulsed with many casualties. Cut off in the Pindus Mountains from the main force an entire Italian army surrenders and is led off to internment camps. Don't be alarmed my SC brothers the cordial Greeks allowed them refuge in the many beautiful islands of the Cyclades. Obviously the well known mariner skills of the Italians precludes them from making an escape across water. As the sun sets across what was once a gay Europe, the September skies are foreboding with Luftwaffe air demons striking down even the most defenseless English Sparrows. A darkness settles across the continent and the remainder of 1940 does not look good for the righteous forces of the Allies. But let not your "aspects" be shrivelled my SC brothers, for in the lands of milk and honey there is retribution coming, good people are working, scientists are discovering, and the "Terrible Swift Sword" is being sharpened. Let us pray.

Blashy, send me your mod...please and I hope by God by now you have an artillery icon replacing that blasted rocket one.

There are 3 grades of avgas, blue, green, and red, the red be an 80 octane and definitely would cause an automobile to ping, knock, and miss, so you may be right. Jet A or Kerosene, even the HiPo stuff, has a green tint to it, can also be akin to yellow as the refining has some undesirable byproducts show up especially from sour(high sulfur) crudes and the severity of the fractionation temps. Usually kerosenes or jets are not dyed. Well at the 100 mi/gal average vs say 25 today and $2.50 a gallon you'll need to own that vehicle for 7 years to get pay back. Better yet, by a still. If you don't drink the white lightning, you can add it to your gas. And in any case if you drink it, you won't care anyways. :cool:

Hell JJ, I've run avgas(was it the blue dyed?) in my GN and T especially when racing, it has lead(TEL) but is very high octane, mostly a blend of Alkylate and Toluene. Gas doesn't get much better than that. Today we have a bunch of crap(xc premium 93 R+M)(MTBE was really good and got a bad rap), but the engines are really good. Don't get me wrong, these are highly refined components, 3rd and 4th tier stuff. Jet Fuel is nothing but kerosene initially, that's what all the commercial jets run. Military is a different story, they need a little more volatility so they get some lightends like raffinate, butane, but just a touch, mostly kero. Now those boilers we're talking about, can run on all of it, except the gasoline type fuels, to much RVP(volatility) the boilers would explode. Things like the first run(initial distillation of crude) kero, diesels, gasoils, atmos bottoms can all satisfy those naval vessels requirements, just got to stay away from the volatiles. So you see, given a little ingenuity and a some knowledge about his engines, a good captain could improvise getting around.

Good assumption Liam, you're right on. Most naval vessels, excepting high performance ones, use a fuel called Bunkers. It comes in various grades but is pretty much "bottom of the barrel". Thing is many different fuels will work in a ship's boilers, even crude oil, prerequisite is it must burn and most things do if you get them hot enough. Not to say these alternatives are desirable as they really increase the maintenance aspects and can actually ruin the engines, but in a pinch, life or death, you burn'em.

This is a beast of a campaign from the Axis side playing at expert +2 exp to Allies. You likely won't make it out of France, they will kill you. I can only imagine what this will be like against a human, .....not for the faint of heart. Hey Bill, send me the file, I don't want to join Yahoo.

I believe the editor will allow you to set end date of your choosing.

A small price to pay for that nautical background, I'd say Lars. See what happens when your out on that ocean day end, day out....soothing, relaxing, mind-numbing, except when your a deckhand. Now that your a land-lubber again, monetary reality strikes, can't depend on the sea for your sustenance. 4 masts eh? All I know is jib, fore, main, mizzen, and jib doesn't count as a mast. Any chance of flying on the spinnaker(did she even have one)? What were her dimensions?

I'm buying Part 2 conclusions, you've got the reins JJ. For the fuel dilemma, USSR was trading with Germany, that would have continued until USSR entry because of Stalin's appeasement policy. Now for anyone believing that Germany was eventually going to be able to rival UK for sea dominance, banish the thought. What we're looking for is respectability. Why? What does seapower provide? Perhaps an avenue of commerce throughout the world's waterways? Let's imagine that the infantile Kriegsmarine accomplished a trade pattern. What would they be trading? What would you go after if you had future war designs? Would you have the presence of mind to stockpile a few critically important resources? One of the big questions in my mind is what would Germany have sacrificed for the Z-Plan in reference to its air and ground forces?

Thought this had been fixed, could it have sprung up in 1.06 again. Happened twice, one each, in two different games while cycling through units at the end of a turn using the "N" key. This hasn't happened in a long time, can't even remember the last version where I had this problem. Anyone else?

Look guys we can theorize, punctuate, hypothesize, and conclude all we want, but the proof is in the pudding. What is this scenario for? OK, fun first, but there is no reason why it can provide an accurate simulation of what might have been. Let's let JJ create it and we can play it and find our own conclusions as an educational romp through history. Preconceived notions only serve to damage the median of objectivity. Apply the scientific method and allow it to lead us to a consensus.

Yeah but Liam, Fuhrer JJ is in charge this time and God knows he's nowhere as inept as Hitler was. Not only that, he has the benefit of hindsight. There's nothing about Z-Plan that couldn't have really taken place given the proper orientation. There could have been time to get to at least 42, maybe further, before USSR entered the fray. I have complete confidence in JJ appointing the proper people to the appropriate positions to maximize his Reich potential. There are many twists and turns that road of fate takes us down, the alternative possibilities are intangibles, no one can say for sure that a different decision wouldn't have led to a vastly different set of circumstances. Go watch "The Butterfly Effect".

I want you guys that are really interested in the conceptual beginning of the Z-plan to Google, NWCR article, Autumn 2005: Hansen. Not long, but very insightful, the idea, the strategy, the way it should have unfolded.

No doubt he does Rambo, but to truly simulate the commerce interdicting characteristics of aircraft, they would have to have the "hunt" ability too (in range of convoy routes). This leads us to the Pacific, where the island bases were so important for power projection.

Well if we're going to ask, then I think there's a consensus for surface raiders also. Anyone for Bombers in range?

Exactly it JJ, the premise for the panzershiffes was kill what was weaker and run from stronger. The Graf Spee's fuel separator's steam generator was hit by an Exeter 8" shell, a bad design not being located under the armored deck. Still if the design had been corrected the Spee would've had a 15,000 nautical mile cruising range at 19 knots. Now we know those diesel engines needed a little tweaking, but also realize the germans were making strides in steam propulsion. The supply at sea situation had really been addressed just not enhanced. Germany had 6 Dithmarschen class supply ships with a range of 12,500 miles cruising at 15 knots and could deliver 9000 tons of fuel, 400 tons of lube, ammo, parts, provisions and were aptly armed to defend themselves. They could run at flank speed of 22 knots and the Kriegsmarine had developed a 150 ton/hr transfer rate of fuel while cruising at 17 knots. Not to shabby. See, the jist of the situation is germany was on the right track, but just didn't apply the required emphasis. That's where your Z-Plan comes into play, you elaborate the naval efforts and the required time for development before pushing the button. Now, Mein Fuhrer, give Admiral Raeder what he wants. [ February 27, 2007, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

Crap!!! That blond Swedish masseuse turned out to be lying about the 30 thousand Norwegian babes she was suppose to pimp to you and the Axis, ND? And then she turns state secrets and you capture a tech level. What a disheartening turn of events. Traitors everywhere, there will be hell to pay. French Madmoiselle womanned cruiser squadron entices Nazis into trap lounging on deck in teeny weeny Bikinis.

Got to agree with JJ, in wartime, a completed hull of a major warship is aloud to transgress hostile waters to a port for final fitting without enemy intervention? That's more than just a stretch, especially when we're talking about a proactive RN.

OK JJ, I understand your real world concept about what the Fuhrer would have provided and that he could have been misleading Raeder. There is also what Germany was truly capable of deploying through its industrial endeavors. But the Fuhrer is not in charge...you are. Is this not a "what if"? Just suppose, if this is a "what if", that we examine what Raeder was really after, answers to Wegener's "dead angle" and the new long legged German Navy's strategy of stretching the Royal Navy, creating exploitable opportunities for the surface forces and subsequent cleanup by the subsurface forces. Suppose you create Raeder's Z-Plan?

According to some of my info the long term Z build plan was to be complete in 47 with 6 Type H BB 4 Bismark class BB 3 Pocket, type Deutschland BB converted from Scheer, Spee, and Deutschland. I've seen reference for upgrades to Scharnhorst and Gneisenau to put them in the pocket BB class. 12 Type P BC 2 full size CV and 6 smaller types(CVL) 24 type M CL (5 of the Koln and Lepzig class) 36 Scout cruisers ??? 70 DD 162 SS (Atlantic capable) 60 SS coastal variety Aproximately 100 torpedo and special purpose Eboats. (Mowe and Wolf class). Source: Bekker, C. "Hitler's Naval War". Seems pretty ambitious.....possible by 47??? Oh and JJ, I have the schedule of completion for each year, 39 through 47. [ February 27, 2007, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

Let me say that I didn't really get into Bill's ATR mod at first, but as I continued to play and he continued to improve, I found myself deeply immersed. That is saying a lot with my limited game playing time. Also, I never play the AI anymore, but from the Axis side Bill's scenario really got to be challenging, especially with a little bump to the Allies exp. level. As I've never played TR or ATR I didn't really know what to expect, like lots of unit density and a really different battle for France. No longer is it a walkover for the Germans. I can only imagine how this will be very difficult for an H to H competition. You may want to entertain thoughts of deviating from the normal pattern of conquest as the Germans don't have to start with Poland, ie. it requires a DoW. Looking forward to the 1.06 adaptation. Send it when your ready Bill.