SeaMonkey

Edwin, what your asking for is the same as Panzer General's unit commander attributes. I think for this scale the Hqs fulfill your suggestion to a certain extent coupled with being able to supply specific units with tech upgrades. Now once that specific unit has enjoyed some extensive experience additions, with a high rating commander supplying support and the tech upgrades....viola...you have your wish. Now just pick out a name from your favorite commanders' list and customize the unit's name, like "Guderian's 24th Panzer Corps", assuming we have enough spaces in the name of the unit.

Not Silly! John, read Edwin's "Note:" HQs don't just represent a leader, they represent a superior command and control military infrastructure, like communications, planning, logistical movements, tactical doctrines, etc. Now do you suppose that in WW2, a country such as Belgium, Neth., Lux., had anything close to the military structure of say Germany(ie. they get no Hq)? The results speak for themselves.

This discussion brings up an interesting question. In a world scenario will the SC2 engine be able to distribute resources(MPPs) to one nation's eventual belligerent? For instance, if Japan goes to war with the USSR, could the USA still be providing oil/iron ore resources (ala Lend Lease provision MPP transfer) to the Japanese? On the other hand, as Germany assaults the West (France & UK) would USSR be able to provide additional MPPs to the German cause to represent their continuing war product exports?

Alright, I have another idea. Remember how I have been a proponent for the need of a random possibility for opposing naval/air forces to overlook each other in sea tiles? How about using the "Submarine Dives from Attack" feature to simulate the "Naval/Air Forces Fail to Discover" provision? OK, well maybe not exactly the same parameters but something similar for the "effect". Come on Hubert, you said it yourself...you like "simple abstractions".

Exactly Edwin, Let us not forget that the lack of intelligence or miss-information also plays a valuable part of the overall WW2 espionage scheme. Since neither player will perhaps not be aware of their opponents "Intel" tech level, there should be a chance of popups that will also be untrue or missleading. Maybe, your intellgence information should have a % reliability attached to it, such as , "Info Sketchy, 20%", or "Info from this source realiable before, 50%", or "Info Trustworthy, 80%", etc., etc.

"Hubert is yet mulling over Many of the "intel" features" Excellent! and I most humbly accept the unofficial title, and a very good likeness also....thanks DD. One thing though, my weapon of choice, I prefer an AR-15 with a bag full of 30 round clips....set to auto mode...and my ammo box full of .223 rounds. While I'm wishing, a Green-eyed, redheaded serving wench to replinish the used clips would be nice, not to mention a reinforced concrete bunker for my shield. Now with that endowment... bring on those instantaneous gratification seekers. Mr.C...take all the time you need your diligence is defended!

Expanding on my above post, the instituting of the feature would allow the MPP investment into espionage for accumulation of diplomatic chits also. Edwin has suggested many ideas for prewar political maneuvering. I think there could also be provisions for semi-active majors to steal technological advancements from the enemy as well. All for the purpose of added depth and replayability, not to mention the possibility of creating custom prewar diplomic scenarios. Come on HC....give it a shot.

Just finished reading the new diary entry.....awesome! eech!! eech!! eech!, Yes its time for the "ButMonkey". Considering the last paragraph instituting provisions for intelligence/counter-E, I would like to see a little added depth. Since this is still up in the air...hopefully, I would like to suggest some scripted events, that would allow various instantaneous glimpses into the opposing sides moves, both strategical and tactical. Some revealing episodes of troop movements/massings/locations; popups as describing an enemy units' passing or leaving a geographical location, as an example. A notion of an enemy level of research in certain categories. Creating provisions for such a feature/s could prompt a prewar(before 39) diplomatic condition for the players of SC2 to engross themselves in as well as semi-active majors before they enter the fighting. I can wait a little longer for SC2, perhaps 3 months?

This brings up a great point, JJ, that I have been thinking about quite a bit. Its the SC supply model, perhaps a bit too abstracted. I know this has been discussed to the point of a rotting skeletal horse, but far from being resolved in a comfortable manner, IMO. I remember many of the discussions, especially with Shaka, among others about the oil factor, and the reinforcement mechanics when units are cut off and surrounded. I'm thinking GGs WaW may shed some light on this model and I'm hoping to get it ASAP and apply some of its features to this very important aspect of any wargame. Perhaps some sort of tile linkage needs to be established periodically to island bases with an abstracted convoy/transport system. Some way to take into account the ability of submarines to deliver limited supply as the Japanese did in WW2. I think that the naval model needs to have some provision for convoys to pass through enemy occupied tiles with a certain chance of not being spotted, ie a search and discovery factor based on intelligence and unit proximity with spotting abilities and cloaking weather patterns. Maybe there are others? It just seems to me that the vast area encompassed by ocean tiles should leave an interception in doubt, as IRL. Maybe the "run silent" feature could be somehow modified to include the supply transport system to a certain extent and some provisions for escorting by allocating MPPs to the convoy. Sort of a convoy initiating procedure that players would be allowed to organize to supply far off/cut off bases. Anyway, such a feature should require very little user management, but a coder's nightmare...sorry Hubert! Needless to say I am willing to wait months for SC2 release if it would incorporate a decent supply model.

Alright, a jovial HC, reading that things are going well, meaning... not only SC2, but with the proper focus. And welcome back comrade Rambo! Now behave yourself so we won't lack your input in the future. We are better...together.

Leave it as it is HC, you have more pressing issues.

Hmmm.....maybe McAfee missed it...haven't had any problems lately, have sent some out since yours waltero...nothing reported from others, scan clean. Sorry

War in Siberia should not be selected, Matt. What that means is that the Japanese have attacked in the east, precluding the movement of the reinforcements to the west.

Of course you are right AS, but I'm not sure this will be my final edition and my read.me is not done yet...due to demands of business. Any of you guys already in possession of the scenario, feel free to pass it on to any of our requesting brethren. I apologize for not getting this out to all parties in a timely manner...just the demands of Earth are sometimes overwhelming.

Alright guys...its on the way. Preliminarily it looks like Bill is top candidate for SCAEF (Supreme Commander Allied Expeditionary Force). Hey Bill, if you need some subordinate commanders for multi-player SC2 PBEMs, please consider me.....perhaps I can save China!

Hey Bill, You are becoming an expert in this campaign and my best feedback so far...thanks. Now what were the settings for this game? I can tell you that my win on Intermediate/+1 exp. the only use of Allied troopers(in addition to 2 USSR corps) in USSR was to surround and kill a rampaging Panzer group in the Caucasus(the last southern city)that was destroying all my resources in that area. So technically I did violate the "house rule", although I used only the units that originated in Iraq and Egypt, ie. I did not operate air or transport additional units around the "Hope". Glad you are still having fun with this. Anyone else want to profess to being a conqueror in this campaign. How about it CT, you were suppose to win the first day?

Allow me Bill, Yes Shaka, you will have to deliberately reinforce the unit, which is restricted by the amount of full bars/medals/etc of experience. One full bar of experience allows a voluntary reinforcement to 11, two bars = 12, 3 = 13, and since 4 bars is the max?,.....well it was for SC, then the maximum, optional reinforcement is to 14 strength. Which brings up an additional question. Bill, are reinforcements to over strength limited to elite reinforcements only? It would seem so since regular reinforcements erode experience levels, but you never know.

Alright Gurak, here's the possibilities, short and sweet. 1. No 2. Axis DoW on Greece will increase % chance of Yugo coup and enhance USSR readiness. 3. Don't DoW anyone.....keep at least two corps in border cities until Rumania joins or March 41 and then increase number of units to 5. 4. None, if the Germans don't DoW them, just let the USSR absorb them. 5. Welcome to the world of uncertainty. % chance is increased with # chit invested and being behind opponent in that category. 6. Must take London and threaten Manchester or gain UK surrender...random %, very low for Turkey. 7. No I will in no way be responsible for the content or accuracy of these statements, either implied or assumed.

Alright, I think I'm up to date on getting everyone this campaign, sorry but business was demanding. I would like to suggest two "house rules" although I detest the use of them, but SC design limitations sometimes make them appropriate. 1. No building of UK units until both Manchester and London are in Allied hands. 2. No operating or use of UK/USA units in the Soviet Union. Both seem logically to have occurred if this "what if" had truly been a part of history. Anyway it will make for a more competitive game for you "experts" out there.

Exactly how I use them Edwin, and I never research heavy tanks, prefering to keep them cheap and numerous. One other noteworthy parameter is their defensive value gives them "staying" power. I'm hoping the new SC2 armored/mech. units exhibit that realistic property(defensive strength) when researched into the upper tech levels.

Ok, I'm back...short business trip. Glad to see many of you still enjoying this scenario. Stahlwolf, I will put together a read.me file and do some modifications and testing before we'll be ready to post it permanently, thanks. I'm thinking of adding the Turks to the Axis, or something to stop the gamey move of using the American and/or UK contingents into the USSR, probably would never of happened in real life. Matt, if none of our SC brethren haven't sent you the campaign, I will send it to you tonight when I get home. [ February 12, 2005, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

Okay Bill, see now you've gone and stimulated the creative juices which leads to more questions. I've got an idea more than a question, but for the moment let's focus on the Combat target value screenshot. In the interest of reality, if I was to give the Italian army a 1 strategic attack value and said army attacked an enemy unit in a resource tile could I expect that in addition to having an effect on the enemy combat unit, would I possibly also see a reduction of the resource value as a simulation of infrastructure damage done by the attack?

Most welcome Bill Congratulations!! You beat my best so far and I'm the designer. I'm getting indications of other Supreme SC commanders out there having some successes also. And you are right the partisans play a major role, its just they are so random, you never know if they will popup at that critical moment. May have to add some more Luftflottes to the mix, its just once you go over 6 its kind of outside the "what if" realm,....maybe an Italian or two.

Face it guys, We all know what the definitive strategic wargame will be for us. Ok to amuse ourselves until that moment that SC2 arrives and GG is trying to appeal to the mass gameboys driven by hapless graphics. And that's OK too, its economics, hopefully encouraging those who have not stepped into our realm before to initiate a purchase. Nothing but upside for us fanboys of this genre...for as the dinero goes...the wargames follow.

So JP, tell us, did your testing of GGWaW inspire this comment?