Tellu

I can totally relate to that! No terrain is totally level and even. No field, no park and no road. Every terrain has some minor irregularities in it. And when vehicles travel over them they bounce. And when vehicle bounces its contest will bounce. In tanks those contents are the crew. For crew to be able to fire their weapons effectively against enemy tanks they need to first of all spot the enemy. Then they need to aling the gun to the enemy and then they must aim and fire when the gun is aimed. Try this; take a bucket cut a 10cm wide and 2cm high vision port in it and put it in your head. Have another person drive bike for you and sit behind him with bucket in your head. Take BB gun with you holding it in one hand and taking support with the other hand. Now drive around yard or some field and try to hit something with that BB gun. And there is a WW2 tank battle simulator for you.

And one reason here is the zoom of these sights. Or lack of any. These sights had miserably small FOV and zoom. They were usuless in longer ranges. The commander had to spot with binocs for the gunner because you couldnt see the hits thorugh the sights at longer ranges. So I fully believe plain sight would have been better in this case but it should not be compared to tank maingun sights which had decent zooms. Pak 35/36 sight while basicly same, only smaller, than used in panzers, was totally inadequate compared to tank sights.

AI might be fooled with that trick but no sensible human player. The subs in this game are dog food. I still havent seen single tactics which will keep German subs alive longer than couple of tunrs out in the Atlantic. That is if they ever get there. Big IF.

I hope you realize these mentions are usually not made by Finns themselves? Or are they?

I hope you realize these mentions are usually not made by Finns themselves? Or are they?

I'm waiting the release of SC and wondering if I should by it as it comes out. I'm looking forward to release of HOI and will order it as soon as I know where.

That my friend is a false analogy if there ever was one.

Id really like to be able to download this or any other game instead shipping it from US. I live in Finland and the shipping always costs atleast 10€. Down loading would be soooo much easier. And about copy protection... I dont see it much harder to make copy protection for downloadable games. Cracking protection will always happen regardless how games are bought. Although I've Operation Flashpoint has decent copy protection. I've done some looking around and never heard of any cracked version of that game which would support all the upgrades without triggering the incoded bad effects. Thats progress for us! Maybe, oh just maybe all games can somaday cost only $25 like SC. All that is needed is cutting down the piracy and thus game companies lowering their ridicilous prices.

That is a good idea Marc. Other might be to lessen the effect of industrial tech. Now it gives 10% discount on everything. How about lower percentage?

Compared to other techs what do you think? Getting heavy tanks to 5 gets you some great units which cost A LOT! Same with Jet Fighters. Those units everyone use. Then there are techs which effect not so used units like navys and bombers which still are rather good for them. And then there is rocker tech which IMO is total waste of money... But there is a real killer too! Industrial Technology! This game turns around MPPs. Indus tech lowers the need of MPPs so it effectively boosts your MPP value. This affects everything, buying, upgrading nad moving units. Its also help in strategic warfare since units lost in those activities will be easier to replace and thus keep in full power. It also gives more range options since you can afford diffrent kinds of troops in the same time and you are not limited to single path of action. So now what is your opinion? If you played the full game would you research any other tech before industrial tech?

I just tested on hotseat mode effects of tech. I researched diffrent fields with diffrent countries. With Germans I maxed rockets and subs. So finally I got rocket tech 4 and had five(5!) rockets stationed in Netherlands to used agains Britain. Firing commenced. Units 1 strenght 12, 2 strenght 13 and 2 strenght 14 Target Londons harbour Results One(1) point of damage!! :eek: So this is not what they are good for... But is there something that they are good in? I fired on two earlier turns with 1 and 3 rockets. Both times I managed to do no damage to that harbour. And Britain had Radar tech at starting level(1).

I agree with Bill here. It took a lot of more time than 1 week to get the valuables out of France. More like years.

Grimlord, Pley for the Allies once. Try to see how fast you can catch that lone German sub in the Atlantic! I assure you it wont last for long. Then play agains a human opponent as Allies. You can do the same in no time. The lone sub is dog food! Tell me exactly how is it going to survive there against both French and British fleets? :confused: I have no idea how it could be done since the "ocean" is so small the fleets can comb through it in 2 turns. If incredibly lucky the sub can survive 3 turns!! :eek:

NightGaunt, my points exactly. People cant see anyone can whoopass the AI. Its diffrent world when played agains someone who truely thinks. Grimlord, try to grasp this: You should be able to use subs BEFORE you take out Britain, their fleet and stuff sauerdraut down their throats. The strategic stagnation of Britain with subs is quite irrelevant if you own the Isles. Now aint it so?

Wolfpack, You only account playing against the AI. Thats hardly a strong case for subs. Thats a case for you playing better than AI. Destroying British Home Fleet before using subs? Whats the point then? You dont need the subs after that. You just can start sea lion and get done with the Brits for once and for all. You dont need to starve them with your subs anymore. The subs were Germans weapon of attrition agains the UK. They cant be used as that in this game.

I have no problem with the effect of subs in strategic warfare. IMO thats about right. I have problem with German subs being unable to get to the Atlantic. Use France as base you say. Ofcourse Im doing that. But that is not always an option and it was not option for Germany before the Fall of France. But still German used subs from their own harbours before they got France. This is the greatest problem here. I can not get a sub from German harbour to Atlantic. period. That is a flaw. If I play against another human my one German sub in Atlantic WILL NOT SURVIVE for longer than 2 tunrs. In that time anyone with little cordination will hunt it down with superior surface fleet. That is a flaw. Im not saying subs were all powerfull. IMO German could have used it limited resources better than producing hundreds of subs especially 1942 onward. But Germany did use subs and some of them survived for some time at the sea. And in no account an entire fleet of subs(what I see the sub counters reflecting) was destroyed in 2 weeks which is the case in this(otherwise great) game. And this is a flaw.

I have now read in many places comments like:"since some people think subs are too bad and some think they are too good then they must be about right." Now could those of you who regard as subs good in they intented use please make they case here. Why do you see the subs are good? For I cant in my honest mind think of any reasons why German subs could do even remotely satisfacting job.

The Subs are dog food. Any Allies player with more sense than AI will crush them in no-time! And they cant get to atlantic from German harbours. No way.

Tim, Its not about that axis can get their subs to Atlantic. Its about the Allies ability to stop Germans doing it if they choose to. The Allies CAN block the acces to the ocean. Thats what is blatantly wrong. And have you played against human opponent. Anyone who uses little cordination is surely going to hunt your subs out in notime.

Great! That should do it. [ May 23, 2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Tellu ]

I'd like to see possibility to advance after combat to hex in which the defender was destroyed. This could happen if you did not movebefore attack(blitz). How about it?

The problem with the subs is there is no way one is going to survive in the Atlantic. Subs cost, what? IIRC 550. If and BIG if I get my sub as German to Atlantic its not going to last there. Within 3 turns it starts to raid convoys the Allies are going to hunt it down and sunk it with their superior surface forces. And thats a fact. Even with fog of war turned on the allies dont have the great area to cover they did IRL. Theyll bump in to my unfortunate sub soon enough. How many turns did you manage to keep German sub alive in the Atlantic raiding convoys?

I have no problem it being tough. I have problem with them being immune to attrition due always being on suply. So if I hit them from 10 to 4 theyll be back at 8 in next turn. So now I hit them 8 to 1 theyll be back at 8 next turn of that! Now there is the problem.

I played the demo some more and this is what I think added to earlier points which still stand. The navies dont work as they are. All the navy types are too easy to hunt down and hammer to oblivion. Espcieally the subs but others too. They have nowhere to run or to hide. Stacking in harbour and giving the harbour defence bonus or something along those lines would help. Its next to impossible to attack fortresses and cities well defended. For example Gibraltar and Alexandria. Even having 5-1 advantage didnt help defeating Gibraltar since every turn the Allies just bought it back in strengh. I understand such places are hard to attack IRL too but with time there should be no doubt of success since the defenders would run out weapons, ammo, food, water and men.