Wicky

Surviving vs thermals doesn't depend on absolute emission elimination, only suppressing it to the point where one blends in against the thermal background and/or can't be seen at tactically useful ranges.  Additionally, as noted by myself and others, rain, cold fog and other things can royally screw up thermals. Elsewhere, I reported direct experience in which an M48A5 tank I was TC on for sensor tests at Hiughes disappeared from the AN/TAS-4 TOW Night Sight in fog and rain on a cold dreary day. Range? ~ 1 klick.
 
Note to Mods: Am taking a flyer here, but the below link is directly pertinent to the discussion and is quite interesting from a military-technical standpoint. Raven Aerostar via partnership with GORE of GORE-Tex™ fame has the NEMESIS™ line of protective wear vs optical/EO (including thermals) /radar surveillance threats. This isn't some tech aborning. The protective suit already exists and is on the ITAR list.
 
(Fair Use)
 
"CAMOUFLAGE CONCEALMENT & SIGNATURE DECEPTION
Raven Aerostar’s NEMESIS™ Garments, Personal Hides and Equipment Covers represent a breakthrough in signature concealment for warfighters and security personnel. Using Gore® Multispectral Concealment materials, NEMESIS Garments, Hides and Covers are the first material technology that greatly reduce the range of detection from sophisticated multispectral electro-optical/infrared (EO/IR) sensors. The modern warfighter and security personnel have an amplified need for detection protection against rapidly advancing persistent sensor technology. NEMESIS conceals personnel and high value equipment against advanced infrared surveillance sensors. This new camouflage, concealment and deception (CCD) technology offers a significant tactical advantage for daytime and nighttime operations, including improved infiltration and exfiltration with minimal detection.

NEMESIS TURKEY SUIT
 
The NEMESIS Turkey Suit is the first product in Raven Aerostar's NEMESIS series of innovative protective wear, providing signature management through its use of Gore Multispectral Concealment materials. Additionally, the NEMESIS Turkey Suit reduces detection from sophisticated radar technology and advanced radio requency (RF)."
 
There are solutions out there against modern surveillance means, and I encourage BFC to look into this. 
 
Regards,
John Kettler

Bil,
 
I wasn't sure in what formation or configuration the Americans would arrive in, but this one looks like fully deployed in battle array. Combat power writ large. On the positive side, it gives your remaining airpower lots of targets!
 
antaress73,
 
Methinks you misunderstand the nature of warfare. Numerical force superiority certainly helps, as does high tech (when it's working) but is no guarantor of success. The NTC is one of the major reasons the Army cleaned Saddam's clock, and the lessons learned there by the rotating units at the hands of OPFOR were brutal and taken to heart, as seen in the linked CGSC study of lessons learned at NTC. With perhaps the odd exception here and there, the key to American combat effectiveness lies in rigorous ongoing training using everything from a battle plan scratched in the sand with a stick to full-on engagements with MILES gear and live fire training on a simply enviable scale. But ultimately, it comes down to the men (and in some branches women) who must fight the fight. It is upon their professionalism, motivation and sheer aggressiveness, determination and willingness to do what it takes that determines who wins and who loses. It isn't, as they say, the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.
 
Give me such people in inferior equipment over conscripts and some contract soldiers in better tanks but lacking, say, battle commanders able or allowed to show real initiative, worked up from the bottom professional noncoms (not someone who spent six months in a sergeant academy) and the military and  technical skills to maximize combat effectiveness, not to mention keep their fancy toys running properly, and the nominally outclassed and outgunned will mop the floor with them. History is replete with examples of smaller, sometimes tiny (see particularly BG Claire Chennault's comment on that at first link) military forces clobbering the opposition. Flying Tigers. Alexander the Great at Gaugamela. Napoleon at Jena-Auerstedt. Here's a fascinating list of ten more.
 
Rinaldi,
 
Insane, but in a good way! Big Monty Python fan.
 
Regards,
 
John Kettler

Bil, 
 
Battalion HQ and the FAC? A horrible hit, but I think it's credible. Where the Komandir is, there also you will find all the key support personnel, with the FAC at or near the top of that list. When the Komandir needs air support, he needs it right now, not with the vital FAC in the next track. I still would like to see an internal arrangement drawing and pics of the the interior of the BMP-2K.
 
agusto,
 
Those (retches) tanks are, hands down, the worst movie tanks I've ever seen. Period. Frankly, they remind me of a Quad Trac I saw back in my paintball days, said ATV enclosed in plywood sheets with vision cum firing ports let into them. The scene, though, was pretty cool, and that one guy had better rally or find either his CO or the politruk/commissar conducting Tokarev TT terminal lethality studies on him very soon. What movie was the clip from, please?
 
Regards,
 
John Kettler 

Missed one
 

Baneman,
 
You may well be onto something! Contrariwise, at a site level, isn't the embedded vid count the embedded count? There may well be technical reasons for a per post limit, but might it also be for aesthetic reasons? After all, it might be both daunting and offputting to be confronted with a post occupying a foot or more of vertical space. With the vid goodness of YT and similar, an enthusiastic investigator could, under the right conditions, go hog wild while presenting grog goodness to fellow CMers. In such a case, it would be quite different visually from the days of visible text links. 
 
Regards,
 
John Kettler

People can poke fun all they want at the MT-12, but I'm not in their number. It doesn't take the ability to effect a frontal killl for an ATG to ruin your day, especially if it's a whole battery firing. For starters, I'd imagine a 100 mm HE frag round hitting the gun would be bad, and the possibilities of serious combat capability damage are rich in the event of any sort of hit which exposes optics/electro-optics, weapons stations, LWR and such to blast and frag effects. For sure, the poking fun will be hastily reassessed when/if (not sure whether it's in) this vicious cephalopod comes into play. MT-12 would be a Category C weapon. I have some vague recollection there was a later 115 mm ATG. If so, that would be Category B.
 
Regards,
 
John Kettler

m0317624 (and likeminded),
 
I barely know what Steam is, have never used it and have no dog in this hunt. That said, though you're coming off badly (and are drawing heavy fire inconsequence), I believe you really are coming from a god place; that your intention is to help. Unfortunately for you, the examples you offer as "proof" aren't necessarily broadly applicable. If any firm falls under that rubric, it's BFC. Recall, not only did BFC conceive and develop, on a very slender shoestring, a revolutionary wargame, CMx1's CMBO, but it simultaneously pioneered a revolutionary way of marketing that game. BFC has thrived where many others wargame firms have foundered and sunk, or have simply vanished. It survived an imploding economy. It survived a painful and expensive outing in brick and mortar land, and it came back determined never to go there again. There was also, I believe, a fiasco in which CMSF (?) was rushed to release because of contractual obligations. BFC absolutely doesn't and won't do that anymore. Steve has repeatedly made it clear that BFC, unlike EA some years ago which, despite its vast resources (millions) was nearly destroyed by one bad decision (all eggs in one basket dropped; bad for eggs), yet survived, simply can't afford to be wrong.
 
We can have opinions and argue them until the end of Time, but BFC must ever weigh the risks against the gains, and we, too, must hope Steve et al. continue to make wise business decisions. Saying, in essence, "BFC is like a dinosaur which won't adapt and dooms itself to extinction" seems, to me, to be a huge overstretch. I guarantee you that some very sharp and highly motivated (like to eat, have a place to live, etc.) people keep a gimlet eye on everything pertinent in their industry. BFC has learned the hard way that giving up control is likely a business killer. And what if BFC did go with Steam, but then there's some upheaval which fundamentally alters, disrupts or even destroys Steam? What then? How bright would that business decision have been--as seen from bankruptcy court?! As it stands, BFC creates the product, BFC handles and ships the product, so BFC isn't losing a huge chunk of revenue to layers of middlemen, nor do its products suffer the ignominy of the $5 clearance bin. In fact, CMBO is still for sale at a very respectable $15--for a game released in 2000! There are still people playing it--and new ones discovering the game and buying it.
 
BFC isn't a PC but a Mac (smaller production, but high quality and higher profit margin); it isn't GM but Rolls Royce; it's not Wonder Bread but artisanal bread, to give but a few examples. I can't speak to the useful gaming life of what's on Steam, but I will say that the overwhelming feedback from our members who play many games and of various sorts is that nothing touches CM when it comes to entertainment value and duration per dollar spent. And BFC gives away the demos so people don't have to make the outlays you find so objectionable blind; so they can determine, for themselves, whether this game is for them. Why is it that people don't bat an eye for a $70 FPS which has a play through time of, say, 14 hours, but gag over spending $105.00 (discounted from $135.00 if purchased separately) for the complete CMBN (v 3.12), including CW and MG, yet can play the latter pretty much forever? Which, I ask, is the more cost effective outlay? Nor is it safe to assert that because CM isn't on Steam, that no one knows about it, therefore can't possibly buy the game. In addition to game mags and game sites, which run game reviews and interviews with Steve about every pending CM release, there's this thing called YouTube and some other means called Twitch. ChrisND has done a great deal to raise CM's profile, and people searching for WW II computer games will find goodies like these served up. And ChrisND isn't the only one.
 
1716 views--for a game still in Beta!


 
5250 views


 
4956 views


 
7234 views
 

 
Nor does it follow that these are the same gamers watching these diverse games. Quite the opposite. Gamers very definitely have preferences, some quite emphatic. And for every person who sees one of these vids, how many additional positive marketing events result when someone shares what was seen? Word of mouth advertising is incredibly powerful, and social media have only made it more so. And what you need to realize is that because of its business model, BFC doesn't need massive sales in order to prosper. Would they be nice to have? Sure, but BFC is niche marketing, rather than trying to sell everyone MoH, Halo, GoW or the latest MMORPG for that matter. BFC's business model works for BFC and, by extension, us. BFC has no suicidal impulse at work here in avoiding Steam, and if it needs to change how it does what it does, it will do so and for good, solid reasons based on an intimate understanding of BFC.

On a whimsical note, what's next? A debate on who played Hammurabi via Time Shared acoustic modem first?!
 
Regards,
 
John Kettler

Have now finished "Tank Heroes" and found it both very good and moving. I doubt anyone who watches it will ever view armored warfare in quite the same way again, because this is global war as expressed on the spear point (5 RTR led the way throughout the war) among men who fought it for five years and knew each other intimately. The descriptions of  the terrible sights they saw among their closest mates and friends are veritably soul-searing. The military-technical stuff is, on balance, mostly well handled, and the worse than scathing observations on Cromwell tank vulnerability and awful design despite all the feedback from the tankers are like being clubbed. So much so that one tanker was very nearly court martialed because he wouldn't shut up about it.
 
In watching this doc, you cease to think in terms of the great sweep of things and see matters more from the standpoint of men, in a tank broiling in the Normandy sun, who dare not get out, lest they be sniped. Mark Urban, himself a former tanker, then chimes in about what happens in such situations. He himself went 20 hours buttoned up during an exercise. He was a TC of some sort and found the inability to stand up, stretch out and such to be agony after doing it for hours. One of the more interesting insights is the massive mental adjustment it took for 5 RTR to transition from the vast flatness of the Western Desert to the claustrophobic environment of Normandy, where the enemy might be, frequently was, mere feet away. 
 
Watching this was a most useful and informative use of my time. Being able to see the ground there, including Villers Bocage, now rebuilt after being pulverized by bombing, really helped provide context, for he shows us where 5 RTR was and what it could see when the Tigers went wild in VB.
 
The rest I'll leave to you.
 
Regards,
 
John Kettler 

Codename Duchess,
 
Many thanks for this post . A most worthwhile article which sheds a great deal of light on a host of Russian AFV related matters. To build a tank that costs substantially more than an Abrams but isn't competitive with it sounds like something like the F-35 program in which the latest and the greatest can't begin to handle an F-16 in a dogfight and costs many multiples of its cost, too.  The comments are a great read, especially the direct confirmation there will be a T-90AM. The upgrade costs to convert T-72s to the latest configuration are pretty staggering. As I thought, the place supplying the ceramic armor is indeed a big deal. Know to intel and S&T types during the Cold War as NII Stal, it is the premier metallurgical/ceramics/other armor material RDTE and, apparently, production operation in all of Russia. It has no peer. For it to produce an armor breakthrough is wholly to be expected, for that is where the expertise lies at all levels. It was, I believe, NII Stal, which came up with the ceramic pellet armor inserts for a bunch of Cold War Russian tank turret faces. And with the T-14 program clearly in all sorts of trouble, more magical thinking has surfaced! Somehow Russia is now going to buy at least 50 Tu-160/BLACKJACK supersonic strategic heavy bombers and produce these simultaneously with the PAK FA. 
 
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/2015/07/12/russian-fleets-crashing-ukraine-nato-fighter-bomber/29962399/
 
And that must be set against the increasingly deadly combination of high OP TEMPO and aged planes. The short form characterization being used is "The Russian Air Force is Falling Out of the Sky." That isn't just some anti-Russian western propaganda, either, for the tale is the same on both ends. We know this because a source within MoD has provided insider details.
 
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/2015/07/12/russian-fleets-crashing-ukraine-nato-fighter-bomber/29962399/
 
Regards,
 
John Kettler

Battlepack 1: The Great Swan
Northern France and Belgium
September 1944
 
In just two months, between 6th June and mid August, the Allied armies in Normandy destroyed the cream of the 1944 German Army. Following this resounding defeat the Allies bounded across France in just a few days. It is during this period of stunning advance that Battlepack 1: The Great Swan is set, following the advance of the British 2nd Army from the Seine River, through Belgium, and all the way to the high water mark of the advance along the Meuse and lower Rhine.
 
The first phase of the Great Swan occurred when the 43rd Wessex Division seized a crossing over the Seine at Vernon in an opposed assault crossing. The battle here lasted several days, and the first 24 hours in particular were considered to be very dangerous for the British troops. However the bridgehead was stabilised and then gradually expanded to make room for follow-on forces. Prelude, the first battle of the Campaign Amiens Tonight, is a semi-historical examination of the difficulties of pressing back the determined German resistance which was able to make good use of the thick forests along the Seine river banks.
 
Shortly afterwards the British forces exploded out of the bridgehead and began racing across Northern France and into Belgium. From the first German resistance to the breakout was weak and disorganised - they were too busy fleeing back towards France to form a cohesive front. Engagements during this period tended to be small scale, and highly confusing. The Copse is a tiny scenario that takes a hypothetical look at one of these minor engagements. Overnight the advancing Allies generally rested, and prepared for the next day’s advance, while the Germans continued their relentless withdrawal. Celer et Audax and Nulli Secudus look at what happens when small British force disposed in hasty defence finds itself in the path of some withdrawing Germans in the middle of a rainy night or on a misty morning.
 
During the advance to Amiens the 11th Armoured Division was ordered to advance through the night without rest, culminating in an astonishing advance of 48 miles in just 24 hours. Tallyho follows the vanguard of this drive as they approach the location of a temporary halt at dusk. The next day found 11th Armoured at Amiens, embroiled in bitter city fighting (The Somme), and then pushing out of the city into the open ground across the river (To the green fields beyond). This was not the end of the war, and the Division soon found itself heading east once more (And the beat goes on).
 
Within days the lead elements of XXX Corps, made up as always by the armoured cars, found themselves in the region known as ‘the Crossroads of Europe’, a place where famous battles to decide the fate of nations have been fought since time immemorial (A crossroads near Brussels).
 
Soon after reaching Antwerp and the Belgian boder the advance petered out, stopped more by the logistical strain of leaping forward 200 miles in a few days than by increasing German resistance. Field Marshal Montgomery famously tried to kick-start the stalled advance with Operation Market-Garden. Those battles have been dealt with elsewhere in Combat Mission. However, in the weeks prior to the launch of Market Garden there were about a dozen planned airborne operations, all opf which were cancelled when they were overtaken by events. But what if the advance had been halted in the vicinity of Brussels?
 
One of the planned and cancelled airborne operations was LINNET II, which was to seize bridges over the Meuse west of Aachen, and open a route into Germany. A group of “what if?” fictional scenarios looks at how this never-fought battle might have played out. The flat ground between the Meuse River and Albert Canal would have provided excellent landing grounds (Drop Zone CHARLIE), while securing the river crossings was dependant on holding the high ground just east of the Meuse against counter attacks (LINNET II). As this operation was never launched, the exact details of Operation Linnet II are vague, and this vagueness has been exploited to look at the effect of differences in the detailed organisation of British and American ground and airborne forces when given the same ground and objectives, fighting against the same enemy.
 
Following the failure of Market Garden the British made a concerted effort to close up to the Rhine along its lower reaches before the onset of winter. This phase of the campaign saw a partial reversion to positional warfare, and the re-emergence of deliberate attacks against strong defences (Swansong). Often these attacks were supported by the specialist armour of the 79th Armoured Division (Hobart’s Funnies). With the onset of bad weather at the end of September the frontlines became static, and the heady days of The Great Swan became an increasingly distant memory.
 
In total Battlepack 1: The Great Swan contains over 25km2 of brand new, highly detailed handcrafted mapping.

LOL the super SECRET squirrel club decided Japanese have audio hearing problems?  Did they actually interview any Japanese?  Do they know any Japanese to interview?  Let me ask my wife, hold on... oh crap that look again- "stupid f**kin Gaijin, where do you come up with this crap?"  Never mind honey, never mind.
 
Hey Macisle, how about asking yours?
 
I know I am stretching things here but you do know you can adjust the audio setting even on headphones so it isn't like lying next to a regular speaker right.....  hmm maybe that was a different SECRET class.

Don't know about anyone else's sound levels, but I've learned the hard way that even at the minimum volume, being near a tank with engine running is pretty loud,. Fortunately for my eardrums, I wasn't "near" a engine running tank when it fired. My nightmare, though, is "being" someplace when a shell or, worse, bomb bursts nearby. I suspect that this could be outright painful if not damaging. I shudder to think what might happen at even higher settings.
 
Decades ago in a SECRET level training course on naval warfare for defense contractors, we were told the Japanese were having serious problems finding sonar operators for the JMSDF (Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force--their navy). Why? Because most Japanese live in apartments and the walls are thin, they habitually use headphones. The high sound levels have wrecked the sensitivity of their hearing. It's very easy to find yourself in an acoustic jam when the sound levels jump, even without adjusting the volume control. And it's patently obvious my computer doesn't have AGC (Automatic Gain Control), which would stop sound levels from exceeding a given threshold value.
 
Given the above, I urge those of you who wear headphones to exercise every precaution when playing any CMx2 game, but especially CMBS, where the weapons are, generally speaking, significantly more powerful than in WW II. Normally, I wouldn't use headphones, but I now have someone just down the hall who isn't a night owl and goes to bed early. Therefore, it's either headphones or (blech) no sound, it having been firmly established that even Setting 1 provides no protection against sudden loud noise. Audio levels aren't as much of an issue with speakers because there is significant attenuation between the speakers and your ears, whereas headphones put the speakers essentially on your ears. Worse, they trap the sound in the ear cups. I urge every one of you using headphones to be very careful, for you could well be one explosion away from getting your bell rung or even permanent hearing damage!
 
Regards,
 
John Kettler

vincere,

That's odd, seeing as how my security software is easily spooked, yet has no issues with the site.

Na Vaske,

You may be our first Russian combat veteran on the Forums. I was not so much interested in the 2nd Chechen War as I was in specific issues with the T-72: autoloader problems (never expected a winter operating problem, given historical Russian ability for Russian gear to function in extreme cold); crew ability to effectively use the installed tech, vulnerability, survivability (the getting through four RPG hits sure got my attention), the T-62 with eyebrows (never had much data on that; Jane's Defense Reviews that I saw gave the impression it was a horseshoe of solid armor steel) and the somewhat shocking stealing of well past Semtex plastic explosive from ERA boxes, with the associated impact on the tank's ability to survive hits. These are the sorts of things seldom encountered in English language defense pubs.

Regards,

John Kettler

MOS:96B2P,
 
NBD, though the exchange confused me initially. As for Bridge Number Seven, the game is well begun, but my chances for bouncing the bridge have improved dramatically with the temporary departure of Hauptmann (?) SLIM until Monday! Theoretically, a least, since, absent his PW and access to his computer, I have no means of stealing a march on him while he's away! BadgerDog is about to come forth in some unknown manner, with the affray to be mounted on a much larger map which appears to offer scope for real maneuver, as opposed to the highly constrained QB map last battled upon. Do you think I should start a separate post for Bridge Number Seven, or perhaps simply keep going on John Kettler vs CMBN?
 
Regards,
 
John Kettler

Subject is Operation Tombola, an SOE (Special Operations Executive) /SAS op against a German communication center and a nearby Corps HQ. That action has Hiwis, German defectors and partisans!

The footage is incredible, with SAS in action (Dennison smocks and red berets), in Italy, using the full array of infantry weaponry, to include Vickers firing indirectly (chugs away nonstop), 3" mortar being served at a hellish clip, Brens, and 75mm pack howitzers. There are some angles which will astound and delight (have to see for yourselves); FJ operating in the mountains, PaK 38s, 88s, 3.7" in the artillery role,footage of the Allied advance and much more. The reenactment scenes will give the uniform and weapon mods a field day. See this if you possibly can. I saw it in a direct broadcast; you may be able to watch via video on demand or some other way. Amazon has it for a few bucks. I unreservedly recommend this to anyone interested in the war in Italy.

Regards,

John Kettler

frez,
 
Let me help you with your nuke knowledge shortfall. This should help. 23 pages which tell you how they work, what they do, what their damage mechanisms are, etc. Am reasonably certain you'll find this tutorial both enlightening and disgusting.
 
Regards,
 
John Kettler

JoMC67,

You're most welcome. I love stories such as those. What we need to do is spend a rollcking evening at a pub with great food, wonderful beer and a fireplace while having JasonC regale us with the feats of derring do he's absorbed from reading all those MOH citations and AARs.

Regards,

John Kettler

Since this list skews more toward War in the West, I'm posting it here. One of my favorites, Charles Carpenter, the guy who armed his single-engine unarmed observation plane with bazookas and went out solo busting German AFVs with his field modded bird, is here. Many of the other one man warfighters I'd not ever read of or heard about. Covers ETO, MTO, Eastern Front and PTO.

http://listverse.com/2013/10/18/10-world-war-ii-soldiers-who-pulled-off-amazing-feats/

Regards,

John Kettler

Wiggum15,
 
I certainly appreciate that your intentions are good; that your heart's in the right place, but you seem to be iterating comparing kumquats with jackfruit! A key part of your argument appears to be based on the acutely flawed premise that your ability to run a super demanding FPS on your rig shows CM, which you perceive as far less of a load on the computer, it isn't--think of all the moving parts and vast numbers of computations, ought to be able to perform like that. But you left out something very important, Your shooters are undoubtedly running multi-core, whereas CM, no matter how stellar your rig, runs single core only. Steve is well aware of this problem but has said it's going to be a time consuming and expensive matter to address. From the very beginning with CMBO, CM has always been designed to run, not on computers with warp drive and direct neural interfaces, but on the typical PC or Mac when the game was created. If CM will run on the computer already on hand, this greatly increases the likelihood of a sale, since buying the game doesn't automatically require a new computer in order to play it. When CMBO was designed, BTS (now BFC) achieved the incredible technical feat of putting a revolutionary 3-D game out that ran on a 200 MHz PC with no graphic card at all. Obviously the goalpost has been moved a bunch of times since. This is but one of many issues which I believe should inform your arguments regarding what you want from CM. Meanwhile, if you can do it without wrecking your computer, try playing Ryse: Son of Rome using only one core!
 
Regards,
 
John Kettler

Following further hair pulling and the signally dubious honor of being the first user
on my ISP to report a new type of cyberproblem, I am delighted to report that I am once again apparently operational.

Apparently, certain local dial-up numbers weren't working, but an alternate did. I suspect that the M class solar flare and geomagnetic storm today may've had something to do with the problems being reported.

Shandorf's turn has been sent out, and there were no new turns in my in box earlier today, so I believe I'm current, however briefly.

Regards,

John Kettler

PS

Mr.Spkr., your crack was so funny I almost fell off my chair, which would've been bad for me, for mine is a Balans office chair, a kneeling chair.

[ 10-02-2001: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

Maybe the outhouse is a TARDIS if a T-34 can fit in it!

Interesting thread, men. Some very good comments/observations here. Thanks for caring about the battle. AARs are fun, but a lot of work. This was my first one......which makes me wonder just what kind of idiot picks a fight with Bil Hardenberger for his first AAR?
 
 
Re: flipping sides/mirror match.....   I think I've just about had enough of this map. Better quit while I'm ahead.