Steiner14
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Posts posted by Steiner14
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JonS,
that's the important part:
I don't think one has to exactly use WW2 tactics in a WW2 simulation: let people have their recon by jeep explosions. I don't think a WW2 simulation needs to force WW2 tactics--in CM1 snipers were used extensively as scouts.But to not be able to use WW2 tactics in a WW2 simulation is a problem.
BTW: I'm quite sick of the "then don't use it" argument from AI-only players.
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MikeyD,
with your fanboism you do nothing good to the development of this game.
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John Kettler,
you seem to forget that foxholes offer almost 100% protection against small grenades or shrapnel.
That's the reason why every army "wastes" so much logistics and costs on the big calibres because otherwise a dug in defender can't be harmed.
In reality the small mortars are only good for supressing. And this doesn't mean they kill dug in units, it only means, that units need to keep your heads down and therefore have less time to aim and shoot back.
The casualties appear, if defenders are forced to shoot back, because the enemy must be denied a certain route or location.
With the current implementation foxholes are useless because keeping heads down is useless against small granades. The mortars fall into the holes and render each an every unit useless within seconds, no matter how small the calibre is.
Give me three mortars and i don't need any tactics anymore. I send a few scouts out, then drive around with some vehicles until the defender is forced to open fire with his long range weapons and then i eliminate each of it with 20 shots from my mini mortars. After repeating that procedure three to six times, the balance is enough to my favour, to bring up the tanks and finish the game.
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Because points 2 and 3 are not an easy task to solve, and because without the mortars IMO the game is simply beautiful and breathtaking, i would suggest Battlefront to compensate with point 1 the two others.
If necessary simply reduce the accuracy of on map mortars even below realistic levels (increase the spreading and/or change the pattern much much more) until we get a realistic balance on the battlefield again.
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The effectivity of on map mortars is out of any proportions. They render big calibres obsolete.
IMO three factors are the main reason:
1. The accuracy is too high.
2. The protection of dug in units is too weak.
3. The self preservation of the TacAI does not work: the units stay (not only infantry, but also open topped vehicles and tanks) where they are, although mortar rounds are already falling on their heads.
Each one is not a huge problem. But the combination of all three makes on map mortars that ridiculously effective.
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Does he move in with combined forces or only a lonely spearhead?
If it's only a spearhead, i would keep the long distance units (HMGs & mortars) silent and wait until he is ~50m away from the houses. Then i would open fire from two angled positions. After this unit is eliminated (should be no problem with crossfire in the open) i would leave the houses and change the position.
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Good question. Not sure but my impression is yes. But a few turns can easily seem like half of an eternity anyway.
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I have a squad with the HQ very close and it doesn't show that it is in command of the sqd-HQ. Also the platoon HQ is close and there is no C2.
Units are not panicked or something.
What am i missing here?
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This could be easily offered by making the unit-info window content moddable. Almost zero work for BFC.
IMO it's a shame, that we don't have this kind of info, because it was great for learning something about the different weapons.
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I think making a scenario is way too much labor and the reward is limited.
I guess things would change, if scenario designers would have triggers. Now most of the time is wasted on balancing it, by judging how the battle develops. And it's too difficult to make surprising scenarios.
With triggers things would change. Even H2H-battles could be boosted with triggers. Less time investing into checking how a battle develops, more time for creativity.
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I would like to see a more dynamic battlefield that simulates the push/retreat mechanisms of a real tactical battlefield.
Do not confuse the asymmetrical war, or a war against armys with 20 and 30 year old equipment, where one side has all the firepower and the other side has no tactical capabilities and no firepower, with WWII, where two more or less equally powerful sides are facing each other and where retreating under fire is a completely different thing.
When the main attack is coming, then for the defender there exists no retreat (except special weapons like HMGs that have preplanned corridors and alternate positions, to change their location, before they attract too much enemy fire).
Not every soldier is equally brave. Even the cowards must be kept under control and keep fighting. A possibility of retreat during an attack does not only reduce the determination and therefore morale tremendously, but is also tactically a HUGE problem: units retreating under enemy fire lose thier cohesion, can easily panick and with a forward pressing attacker would be of no help for the comrades anymore. But what is much worse, the neighbour units suddenly would hang in the air, while trusting in a neighbour. The enemy could move into their back and cause huge problems only because a small platoon leader thought his life was more precious or that he believed to be able to decide about the situation with his limited knowledge.
But a retreat as a reaction of a failing attack, is something different.
I want to add, that i think CMx2 allows to retreat units very well (quick and fast commands), if it is not done too late. Forward positions, single forward squads, can retreat with good chances, as long as the pressure is not too high. If the pressure is high, and they can only move under fire, then retreating becomes a problem like in reality. I think it's very well modeled and should not be made easier for normal infantry.
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how long, do you imagine, that it takes a group of 6-12 guys to:
* search inside a vehicle for the right boxes of ammo
* open and unpack the ammo
* fill magazines and stow it all away in webbing puches and pockets
* ensure they all have roughly the same amount of the right nature(s) of ammunition
* get ready to move out again
My guess is several minutes (at least! More like 10-15 in practice), but I'm curious to know why you think it should be even faster than it is now?
But, but... energy crystals work immediately, too!
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Having soldiers visually below the surface of the mesh doesn't work for many reasons.
For example, what happens when a soldier goes prone (hiding)? He will disappear from the map because he'll now be below the surface of the map.
Thanks.
If the complete hiding below surface creates problems, how about sinking them a bit into the surface? A compromise between fully standing on the ground and the 1:1 representation of the depth of trenches.
I mean sinking them so much into the ground, that in the case of hiding, they will not completely disappear so the AI doesn't get confused because it doesn't see them anymore?
Sinking them and ATGs into the ground, you maybe could make the foxholes more flat, too?
And maybe you could also offer scenario designers several levels of depth, modelling the level of entrenchement?
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No, the worst enemies of freedom are, the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few, and you told me that.
That's like complaining that water is wet. You as person can't change this, but you can prevent to become wet.
If a house is burning, do you stay inside because houses can burn, or will you get out and fight the flames?
It's that simple: Slaves that do not fight for their freedom do not deserve it. Slaves that are happy with their status, or do not even recognize their enslavement, do not deserve freedom, too. Otherwise they would have recognized their situation.
The escape from this slavery also lies not in consumerism. Consumerism makes things worse:
Not wasting money, the most important resource in this system to buy freedom, reduces dependence on the powers that be, but becoming wealthy and financially independent increases freedom.
Consumerism means the slaves are digging their holes even deeper because they are wasting the most important resource to get more freedom: money.
Although financial freedom doesn't lead directly to power, at least it allows to be no longer on the losing side and it opens a lot of possibilities.
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Well your not in power so i guess you are a lucky slave, so slaves shouldn't rag on slaves, ok ?
No because, the worst enemies of freedom are the lucky slaves and i'm not a lucky slave. I'm an unlucky slave.
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Well if that's the case, no wonder people seek refuge in consumerism, which means it's hardly fair to criticise them when they do, given the futility of resistance.
So lucky slaves should not be called slaves?
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Actually i would argue the opposite, i would say that most people know that politicians are willing to lie to them, and they, and the media, try to manipulate them.
But it's all very well me saying that, how could it be indicated objectively, well voter turnout is often cited as an indicator of the satisfaction the population have with the system, which brings me to the US, arguably a country with one of the most obtrusive and powerful media systems in the world, and according to Wiki, voter turnout has fluctuated between 50 and 63% from 1960 to 2010, which means just over 100 million people in the US have not been buying the message for 50 years.
How much would the participation increase if there would be a coupon for a free lunch at McDonalds included?
Non-voters can have as bad reasons not to vote as voters. For example being too lazy versus being too stupid not to recognize that voting is meaningless because the forces that have the real power can't be unvoted since their power comes not from meaningless votes but from money.
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Steiner, believe it or not, human beings have different personalities, so to be crude to make a point, some are motivated by feelings, some by thinking, you are obviously a thinking type, but what you fail to grasp is that your type will generally be bewildered by feeling types, and vice versa
That's the reason why the masses are controlled by the ones that use their intellect. Most people are consumers and react only to the feelings that are induced in them.
This thread itself is a perfect example: even if it is explained how they are targets of manipulation by movies, they insist on consuming and even call the rationale behind the making of movies "paranoia"...
Steiner, I agree 100 per cent with what you say about the idiot consuming masses. I would say the only antidote is education, either in schools or real life.But I very much disagree with you on this:
The chain of command works in most militaries pretty well as long as there is no stress. The moment you add stress, the chain of command starts deteriorating. It doesn't take much, you deprive of private of sleep for a day or two and where he might not lip back to a sergeant if he was fresh, he will when he's groggy.
My argument was referring to the so called "excellent" movie SPR where because of mood, feelings, emotions commands are denied.
But since this is typical for 99% of the movies from Hollywood, obviously most people do not even recognize it anymore: Hollywood has been forming the perception of reality. The best proove how effective the propaganda is, if the consumers do not recognize the real world anymore, but believe the IMAGE the propaganda creates in their minds was reality.
On another scale the same but more intense effect can be observed at young male RTS-junkies.
The mass of the people don't even recognize, that Hollywood and the entertainment-industry follows a political agenda. What, an entertainment movie as a hidden brainwahsing program? You are paranoid!
People have not the slightest clue about the power of media and how they are working and the cluelessness about movies and their mechanisms in this thread is only evidence for thier power.
One of the problems about war movies is, most of the people watching them have not been subjected to the stresses wars create. Movie audiences are generally young, and those that have limited experience in life have even less of a yardstick to judge, how men react under stress.
Here you mention one of the typical stupidities of Hollywood movies in general, not only war movies. No matter if western, war, drama, thriller, horror.
The hero doesn't show real stress or fear. Women, the losers or victims are allowed to show fear, but not the hero.
But in reality heros have the same fear to be hurt or die as everybody! But they are strong enough to overcome this fear and keep it in check and therefore act where others fail.
Good movies are not a ridiculous cartoon of reality like in Hollywood movies. Good movies show REAL people. Real people have real characters. And real characters show a realistic behaviour. No black and no white, just shades of grey.
Hollywood is pure commercialization and propaganda: black and white, simple, stupid, primitive, gore, tits.
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I doubt many would agree it's that important. And even if they did, there are still the other problems which are not fixed by being WeGo only. Nor the other features that wouldn't get in the game because we'd be spending a considerable amount of time on making this work.
Effectively the game would have to store two maps in memory; one with FOW deformations, one without. That's a huge footprint.
This is like trying to swat a fly with a 155 Howitzer. Sure, the current implementation isn't visually as pleasing as we would all like it to be, but there's practically no game play problem with the way it is now. Given everything in the balance, it's pretty much a no-brainer to leave it alone. Which is exactly what we're going to do.
Steve
Steve,
thanks for the reply, but i was referring to the protection issues with units that are entrenched, not terrain-FOW.
If placing a unit below surface and using a 2D-texture (or 3D-models being not part of the map?) for trenches, foxholes or pits right now is not possible because of the LOS-mechanism, that needs units to be placed on the 3D-ground, then a more complex LOS-mechanism not only checking the action spots at grond level but also several levels above each, allowing to see units only if their heads would be visible, could theoretically be possible with WEGO, while RT forbids it because of consuming too much CPU power for the additional LOS-checks.
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SPR was the most moving war movie I've ever seen. I think it was because it was the first of its kind. I saw it in a theater with my girlfriend and some other friends. We were all blown away by the experience. I liked the story, also. No love triangle - just a war weary squad charged with risking their lives for someone they didn't know. I wanted them to succeed and was invested in their characters. Great acting all around, too. I felt like I had been through a war when I walked out of the theater.
I'm puzzled how you are watching movies and afterwards even writing about them. You are consuming it, but not WATCHING. Watching means the logical thinking is not switched off. Logical means, to analyze the plot, the characters, the cast, the use of music, everything.
SPR is only a well handcrafted movie but it is extremely stupid. For example in reality in no military, not even in the US army i guess
, it was allowed not to follow orders. IÄm wondering how anyone can judge a WAR-movie as good, if the most fundamental aspect, the chain of command, is ridiculed to a statistical role to make the main characters stand out?And besides that, in what world are you living? Do you believe that a successful movie is not moving people?!
That's how the business works!!! The more you like a movie, the better it works. You make a movie people like, but you transport the propaganda, lies and garbage within and they will not even recognize it, how their minds are manipulated.
"The movie was good, because i liked it and it was moving."
Incredible.This works, because the masses are not thinking while watching. They are CONSUMING, not analyzing the intentions that the makers want to create.
But movie-makers are not consuming movies, they watch them like i described it.
Therefore only for the uneducated masses actors become stars while in reality the actors are the whores of the producers, directors and screenwriters.
You show the masses a crying wife a sad music and combine it with good lighting and camera and they start whining. Why? Because they do not think! They do not analyze, how this impression is created - and if it even makes any sense! They do not analyze how ridiculously the plot was constructed to come to a certain scene. They do also not recognize the subtext.
They do not understand HOW the impressions are created, they sit in front of it and are RECEIVERS of the intended impressions.
Therefore they do not recognize propaganda or ideological intentions of the whole "entertainment" complex. And therefore Hollywood is such a powerful propaganda machinery. The audience doesn't recognize how it is brainwashed and manipulated.
The movie was good, because i liked it and it was sooo moving. Nooo, really?!
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It has nothing to do with with RealTime vs. WeGo. It mostly has to do with VRAM, RAM, and framerates (even for WeGo). LOS checks are also a huge problem, but WeGo doesn't make it practically better. Meaning, WeGo would require so many extra checks that it would greatly slow down turn computations quite noticeably. And that's if the system was even capable of handling the other problems mentioned.
I can only speak for myself, but i would be GLAD to have several minute long turn calculations if the problems would vanish.
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Compared to these even Saving Private Ryan seems like a good movie. And that says a lot.
At least the casting of Ryan knew, that fat people with even fatter faces were not common during that time
, the special effects reached a new level, camera was innovative and the actors were trained to show body tension, not walking around under threat like during a walk in the park and didn't show lazy, degenerated silhuettes after decades of munching fastfood. But since the masses are attracted only by the look, sound, gore, tits and certain dramaturgical elements like poor women being rescued, and evil and unpleasant enemies that deserve to die, this kind of primitive movies that have NOTHING in common with reality will continue to poison people's minds.
Have you analyzed one of these movies, you have seen it all.
If there is a wave of propaganda movies coming, this usually is a bad sign, especially if Hollywood is involved: then new cannon fodder will be needed soon...
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I understand. Seems that the LOS-check at ground level is reaching it's limits.
I begin to hate the realtime-option, because it seems to be the reason, why we can't get rid of these restrictions. With pure WEGO more complex LOS-calculations would be no problem at all. :mad:
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I wasn't really referring to the administrative penalty of leaving a crew-served weapon on the field. Regardless of what the off-map punitive actions are, crews do abandon guns, or are killed while manning them, making them inanimate objects the rest of the game as the engine exists today, which is unrealistic. It's not a game-breaker, re-crewing weapons is something that should happen.
But leaving the weapon could easily turn into a oneway-ticket. And then?
If re-crewing is modelled also the good/bad consequences should be reflected somehow by the game (eg. the player can disable the weapon or otherwise lose points if the enemy captures it intact).
But what happens if a crew falls while the gun is intact? (eg. the small über-mortars knock it out). If there are other crews of the same weaponry, shouldn't they be able to disable it, too?
And if this is modeled with guns, how about tanks?
Don't get me wrong, i'd like to see this kind of flexibility, but IMO it's important that the pros AND cons are somehow modeled.
Brixia Mortars - Realistically Portrayed In Game?
in Combat Mission Fortress Italy
Posted
Hm, why do i have the impression, that this attitude could be connected with the poorer and poorer forum participation and shrinking activity of the community?