Dave H

Who's going to come watch professional figure skaters if they can't even outscore the amateurs in the Olympics? Historically, winning an Olympic medal opens the door to making the big money in the professional ranks. Once you're already a pro, why risk your status of "former Olympic medal winner" to become "current 35'th place finisher"? I'm sure if a professional skater challenged the system, they'd get to try to qualify. All the other professional athletes who want to participate can. I also suspect the producers of the professional ice shows would frown on their best skaters taking months away from their job to prepare for the qualifying competition, and the Olympics. Once they turn pro, they're kind of locked in to "the show must go on". Actually, I'm amazed the NHL owners allow players to compete in the Olympics during the season. Somehow I can't picture George Steinbrenner :eek: allowing Derek Jeter a few weeks off in the middle of a pennant race to play baseball for the USA. And could you imagine Al Davis :mad: allowing one of his Raiders to miss a few games if football was an Olympic sport? Me neither.

No, no, I'm sure that's not right.

I agree. As I said in my AAR, I think when Splash divided his forces he lost the critical mass to overcome the hordes of Germans. No matter how poor the quality of the troops, 36 squads armed with LMGs, automatic weapons, and 60-70 panzerfausts represent a lot of firepower. Plus there are lots of buildings to defend. When I sent my results to SuperTed, I told him in my opinion the scenario was somewhat unbalanced in favor of the Germans. Even though the Germans are fragile, this is a case of quantity creating its own quality. However, if the German player is impatient with his troops and expects them to act like veterans, he can throw away all his advantages.

This may take longer than I thought. I was hoping for a tie against Splash, because he was pulverizing my guys (not to mention the town) with his tank. I can't imagine how the score was so lopsided.

Well, I can't wait for the good AARs, so I'll go ahead with my own for Give & Take. When I saw my setup as the German, my first thought was "This won't last 10 turns." ONE platoon of conscripts + a LMG and they're already SHAKEN?? And because of Ted's weird setup areas, only 1 squad and the MG are within command range of the HQ. To defend a whole town against attack from the north and the west? This must be some kind of sick joke! :mad: My first thought is to pull the squads back to a more central position. Only problem is, it would take 2 minutes before they moved. Too long. So everybody hides. This leads to Splash's fateful error, where I think the battle got away from him. One of his squads immediately comes hustling around the big heavy building NW of the center of town. My hidden squad in the light building across the road opens up at 58 meters, causing casualties. His squad ducks into the heavy building, where my other hidden squad fires downstairs at 20 meters and wipes it out. The rest of his men break off and move east, to the small buildings at the NE corner of town. With all the reinforcements I get by turn 10, I'm able to use 3 platoons to isolate these men and keep them away from the big battle for the rest of the scenario. This firefight lasts the entire length of the scenario, as I gradually push him back to the north. Meanwhile, over near the VL, platoon B is nervously hiding and hoping nothing else happens. I tried making my first reinforcements run, and that was a big mistake in the snow. They got Tired and even Weary very quickly. I had them stop until they were Ready. So everybody else just moved toward the center of town, and they stayed Rested. I also kept the platoons close together, so the squads did not get out of command range. On turn 9, I spotted infantry in the trees to the northwest of town. Platoon B kept hiding & praying for help. Finally on turn 11 my first reinforcements reached the buildings at the VL. They entered the buildings and hid. On turn 13, a tank appeared to the northwest and smoke rounds started falling in the town. Splash immediately routed both B platoon squads at the roadblock, and for sheer spite he also flattened the light building. He missed catching a squad and B platoon HQ in the building by seconds. As it is, my defense in depth to the northwest has evaporated. The buildings around the VL have become the front line. The smoke barrage gets thicker. We keep hiding. By turn 16 the Canadian infantry is in the heavy building to the northwest, at the roadblock. My first reinforcements reach the church, giving the B platoon squad stationed there a lift. I decided to send some troops to the heavy building across the road west of the church. Two squads wait in the trees south of the church before running across the road. And then what appears? A Canadian dragon, setting fire to a house across from the church, trying to burn the church, and finally torching the house south of the church. It fires directly over my two squads waiting in the trees. Lucky for them it has such a long range. With the distraction of the flamethrower, the squads run across the road. They also must have damaged the thing (Badger?), because it retreated and was out of the battle - thankfully! Splash has massed his uberCanadians in the trees just across the road west of the VL. I've got troops in the four buildings at the VL, in the church, in the trees east of the church, and in the heavy building across the road west of the church. The volume of fire is appalling. Then my nice German flag at the VL turns to a gray question mark. This looks grim. Finally, the sheer volume of German fire is too much for the Canadians. They begin to run out of the trees to the west, away from the VL. By the end of the battle they are all back away from the VL, and my German flag is back. Our result was a major Axis victory. I had 82 German casualties (18 KIA) versus Splash's 78 Canadian casualties (16 KIA). The problem for him was I still had 247 men left, versus his forty-something. The overwhelming numbers turned the trick. I lost 1 platoon HQ, 1 panzerschreck, and 3 LMG units eliminated. Everyone else was still more or less battle-ready.

Splash and I are completing our last couple of turns in Give & Take, and we've just started on Nothing Special, so I need to beg off for a while. Let me finish losing in the tournament first, and then you're on. And as far as preferences, I like conscripts and green soldiers, because they remind me of myself. They're cowards and they don't follow directions well.

Manx, having survived downsizing from a job of 21 years, I know the feeling. The main thing to do is remember that as valuable as you were in the old job, you will be just as valuable in another. You personally are still as competent as you were before the job ended. You may have to start again at a lower level than you might wish, but you won't stay there long. There's no reason for you not to end up in an even better job, like I did. Best of luck to you.

All right, who tipped him off?? :mad: Somebody talked!

Done! Now that I've seen just what SuperTed is capable of doing to a player in Give & Take, this Nothing Special scenario smells like a disaster waiting to happen. So my downfall may come very quickly. Since the only scenarios I have played which aren't on the CD are the ones in this tournament, I'm sure there's something available. Maybe something a little less spectacular than Blood and Steel, though. That scenario seems to be driving some players slightly loony.

VJ, Actually, the final scenario is called Rolling Thunder. :eek: </font>

Or, more likely, after we've both been handed our heads on silver platters in this tournament, we can play Ted's Two Losers Flailing Around to No Great Effect, and Nobody Cares scenario. I'll see you there.

I don't know if these effects are accounted for in the game. However, I do know that snow and frozen ground are the conditions of SuperTed's Give & Take scenario currently in progress in the Newbie Tournament. You may want to check for his opinion on the game's modeling of these conditions.

I knew that. My last post was doing pretty much the same thing. So, will you and the other German players post your AARs? I'm avoiding the AAR thread right now because Splash and I aren't finished yet, but when we're finished with G&T I'd like to see what happened in other games. Right now my old geezers are still hanging in there. I'm just wondering what else Splash has saved up to throw at me.

So what you are saying DaveH, is if you are given a platoon of US paras with say...one zook team, and I am given a company of Panthers, and you are to hold the town, you would be satisfied with the results of our game? Balance is important in a tournament setting ... Would you like to watch a football game where your favorit team was restricted to using spectators from the crowd as it's players? Things don't have to be perfectly balanced, just relitivly so ... </font>

Ted, My two cents on the scoring. Anybody who is looking for the perfectly balanced game should be playing chess or go. How could anyone ever balance ANY situation with so many variables as even the smallest CM scenario? I'm not worried about any imbalance between the forces. Maybe the real imbalance is between the players commanding the Canadians and the Germans. (FYI, I'm playing the Germans) Make it easy on yourself and just use the end scores like you did in the first round. Once you start tinkering with scores, you can be lumped in with the French judge of the figure skating who torpedoed the Canadian pair. I think the whole point of this game is figuring out how to minimize your opponent's strengths while maximizing your own. If you're supposed to hold a town, well then HOLD IT! If you're supposed to take it, then TAKE IT! And just let the computer figure up each player's score at the end. Don't go turning us into scoreboard watchers. Of course, it's your tournament and your decision is final. As Mel Brooks put it so well, "It's good to be the king." Just providing an opinion. Dave

Oh, the joy of getting to make the first post to one of SuperTed's newbie threads (excepting only the man himself). Ted, I'm thinking you have put everything but the kitchen sink into Give & Take. I won't be surprised to see some of Splash's men come sliding down a hill in that, too. What's next, a scenario in a tornado? Dave

Chad, Have you seen MadMatt's new thread "Will CMBB properly model thrown bones? Better check inside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Take a look. Your prayers are answered. I noticed he opened it at 11:15 am, well after you were out of the house, on your way to work and school. Just a coincidence, I'm sure. Dave

Chad said: Chad, can I make a small suggestion to you? You've got to get over this! Sooner or later CMBB will be released. Your daily ritual isn't speeding it up. Do you realize that when that day comes, you will have wasted time "hoping and wishing" every morning of your life? :eek: That's just wasteful. As much fun as Combat Mission is, there actually are other things in life you might also enjoy. Go ahead, take the plunge. <Edited because my first reply was pretty condescending.> [ January 30, 2002, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Dave H ]

SuperTed, While the average scores in BMB are interesting to know, there is more information I'm interested in. Can you tell us how many German players won vs how many Polish players? How many games were ties vs how many were actually victories? As you know, a couple of very one-sided games can really skew the point averages. Thanks.

Okay, let's see some Mighty Mouse AARs on YankeeDog's thread. I want to see how you guys managed to run up some of these very one sided scores. For what it's worth, mine is already posted there.

Okay, here's my AAR for Mighty Mouse. Again, I hope Dan posts his AAR here as well, so I can see how things developed from his point of view. At the beginning, I had 4 Greyhounds and a company of French infantry. My mission was simply to make contact with the Germans and make them fight. I was told there may be more A/Cs coming, but no indication of how many or when. The map terrain had two dominating physical features, a hill toward the northwest corner and the main hill somewhat east of the map center. There was some broken tree cover between the main hill and my west edge of the map. Neither hill had much in the way of cover on the summits. There was a light building on the west slope of the main hill, not far below the ridgeline. My units started in the southwest corner. My first move was to load two MG teams and the company HQ on Greyhounds and head for covering positions. The infantry all took off running for the trees; the mortars and one remaining LMG strolling along behind. The threat of German artillery was a MAJOR concern. The fourth Greyhound headed straight for the building on the hill. I knew the German was starting much closer to the hill and could get there before I did. I figured getting a Greyhound in a covered position on the hill might be a big help. Everything went mainly okay at first. I received 4 more Greyhounds. The infantry all reached cover. I delivered a .50 cal MG to a patch of trees on the hill to the northwest, where it could do some damage to any German halftracks or A/Cs poking over the crest of the main hill. I got a LMG and the company HQ to the trees closest to the main hill. Unfortunately, my HQ unit stubbornly refused to exit the Greyhound. When the A/C began to circle south of the hill, there went the company commander along for the ride. On turn 5, we made contact with 4 German Pumas, all on the main hill. My Greyhound carrying the HQ south of the hill crest was immediately KO'd. Miraculously, the HQ took no damage and scrambled back to the trees unscathed. In the meantime, my A/C by the building took out one Puma at 43 meters. My other Greyhounds took out 2 more Pumas, firing 2 shots at 670 meters for 1 hit and 2 shots at 578 meters for 2 hits. I was quickly acquiring new respect for the Greyhound's 37mm sniper rifle. So far, we had a 3 to 1 advantage. From turns 7 through 10, I tried to keep the Greyhounds in hull down positions covering the main hill (I had received 4 more, for a total of 12). I sent Sgt. Aubron's Greyhound up to the main hill summit to try catching the Germans below. We lost 3 covering Greyhounds, but destroyed 3 more Pumas on the hill (at 596 meters with 1 shot, at 576 meters, and at 625 meters) and Aubron destroyed a fourth circling south of the hill at 289 meters. On turn 11 Aubron destroyed 2 more Pumas making a flanking move to the south, one at 245 meters and the second at 288 meters using only the .50 cal MG. Yet another Puma came charging over the hill crest directly at Aubron, but before he could react the Puma was KO'd twice simultaneously from 463 meters and 553 meters. From then on it was a battle of attrition. I lost 2 more Greyhounds and destroyed Dan's last 2 Pumas. In the meantime, all the Greyhounds and my MGs were raking the German infantry trying to come around the north flank of the hill. It was a perfect situation, my armor firing at his infantry at 400-500 meters. At the same time, my infantry was moving up the west slope of the main hill. In the last few turns I tried a double envelopment with A/Cs to the north and south, along with the infantry moving against the center. A pesky panzerschreck team to the south slowed that pincer, while scattered infantry fire to the north did the same. My infantry made it to the top of the hill and to my amazement found what looked like a German infantry division on the east slope. My D platoon quickly took 13 casualties before pulling back a bit. I decided not to make a human wave charge over the hill with my infantry, so the scenario ended with my 6 remaining Greyhounds moving toward the east side of the hill and shooting up more of Dan's infantry from a distance. I ended up taking 26 casualties with 7 KIA, and losing 6 Greyhounds. I beat Dan on the point totals 68-32. This was an excellent scenario. I told Dan if his Pumas had hit on a few more of their first shots, instead of my Greyhounds, the result could very easily have been reversed. As it turned out, after winning the armor battle my A/Cs could just keep out of his infantry's effective range and fire all their HE and MG ammunition at will. Thanks to SuperTed for a wonderful first round. It's going to be hard to improve on for the next round. Ready, Splash? [ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: Dave H ]</p>

SuperTed, Please tell me you're not getting people in the Newbie Tournament hooked on some massive scenario. :eek: Let's keep our focus here. But, if you are luring newbies into monster scenarios where they must shut out the "Real World" for weeks at a time, please feel free to send it to Splash. Tell him he must complete the first 100 turns in the next four weeks. That should distract him from the tournament a little.

Splash, Glad to see you read my AAR. Now you know just what I'll do if our upcoming scenarios are infantry only, on a foggy night, in the woods. I imagine you have all of my preferences down cold. <blockquote>quote:</font><hr> Your Mom calls you Davey doesn't she <hr></blockquote> Not since about 1957. Ready for Round 2?

I've been looking for the AARs from the tournament in YankeeDog's Tourney AAR thread and in both of SuperTed's Newbie Tournament threads. SuperTed has something like 44 guys who have completed Blind Man's Bluff, and I've counted 7 AARs. And 5 of the 7 are from SuperNewbies like me. Can some more of the players (especially the "more experienced" Garden Variety Newbies and Newbie Rejects) players post AARs so this humble SuperNewbie can learn from their vast wisdom? I think one of Ted's reasons for starting the tournament is for the learning experience. So tell us how you managed to win gloriously, lose miserably, or tie like I did in Blind Man's Bluff.

Splash, please read this closely because I'm sure our scenarios in the next round will be just exactly like Blind Man's Bluff. My AAR for Blind Man's Bluff. As my briefing stated my first priority was to get my men back to German lines, I decided not to go looking for my opponent. I also figured 20 turns left plenty of time to sneak all the way out of danger. My plan was to reunite my split squads, keep my men in the woods as much as possible, and form everyone up in the center to present a compact, powerful front to the Allied player. I hid my sharpshooters to await the arrival of my troops. Naturally, the plan didn't anticipate the Allied response. After 1 or 2 turns, my sharpshooters were startled to hear a stampede of men running all around them. Both sharpshooters got off a single shot at "infantry". I suspected Dan was rushing forward to set up an ambush. I hid my leading squads while the HQ and other squads kept sneaking forward, closing up. My center platoon and company HQ were engulfed in Polish voices, and there were Polish icons all around, but we never had a target and never took any fire. The right hand platoon had the same experience. The Polish voices in the fog disappeared behind them. The left hand platoon was almost together when one of its squads cut loose firing at less than 10 meters. A Polish "infantry" figure was eliminated, and the same squad fired on a second "infantry" unit, which ran. I sneaked after it briefly, but it had disappeared. We went ahead and sneaked through the woods across the map and got everyone safely off the edge. I took 3 or 4 casualties (1 KIA if I remember correctly), and basically carried away all the ammunition I started with. My troops had survived a tight spot to fight again in better conditions. Until the end of the game I had no idea what damage I had caused. I never positively identified a single Polish unit, even the one we eliminated. I've asked Dan to post his AAR too, so I can see how the battle looked from his point of view. I've got to admit, when my center platoon was completely surrounded by Polish icons, I had a really bad feeling. Thankfully Dan's troops seemed to be determined to get back to their own lines, too.