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Apache

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  1. Like
    Apache got a reaction from Mm1ut1 in Steam keys via Slitherine and Steam installs question.   
    Thanks.  I had a feeling the Steam installs will all be v4.  I have used my CMSF keys (finding one that works) and got the Steam key for CMSF 2.  Bit stumped on NATO though.  I thought I'd bought that after CMSF 2 but might be wrong.  I'll have to see if there's a specific NATO upgrade I've missed, though I thought you upgraded the base games, not the forces add-ons.  I actually raised this as a support ticket as I wasn't sure this would be picked up here, there's much more detail in the support ticket so hopefully I'll get to the bottom of the NATO issue.
  2. Like
    Apache reacted to Ultradave in CM:BN and new MacOS version(s)   
    Very true. That will never happen. Not really my thing though, and there are a number of other reasons I've always been a Mac user. You *can* install Parallels Desktop and install CM games in Windows and participate in tournaments that way. I find the experience to be very unsatisfying though. The graphics don't translate over well to Parallels. EVERY other game I have in Windows on Parallels works great - just like you were sitting at a W11 machine, but not CM. Maybe someday.
    For @Apache, my new M2 MacBook Pro is amazing. I bought it to replace a 6 year old i5 MBP with screen issues from my dog knocking off my lap and onto the floor several times. Still got $400 trade in for it. 
    Flawless transfer of everything from old to new. The M2 is a screamer. Is it expensive - yes, it was pricey, even with the $400, but you have to consider it is a very high end laptop and will last for many years without being outdated.
    Dave
  3. Like
    Apache got a reaction from badipaddress in New Black Sea patch   
    Thanks for that.
  4. Like
    Apache got a reaction from A Canadian Cat in New Black Sea patch   
    Thanks for that.
  5. Like
    Apache reacted to A Canadian Cat in New Black Sea patch   
    I agree clarity is needed.
    For you I just confirmed that the 2.14 patch has all the .brz files from 210 onward so you can patch 2.00 and up with it.
  6. Like
    Apache reacted to Warts 'n' all in We need more modders and scenarios makers   
    The "devs" never "should of" done anything. But, perhaps they should "have" done something. A public information announcement from those oh so nice people at CAMHAVE (The Campaign for the preservation of the word have). Of course they are slightly more tolerant than that angry bastard Cromwell, who would "have" just chopped your napper off.
  7. Like
    Apache got a reaction from The_MonkeyKing in Anyone with a Mac have Mord's AFV Chatter working?   
    Downloaded and unzipped Mord's radio chatter mod v1.21 that I understand is for SF1 and SF2.  Mac folder for the mods is Applications / CMSF2 / Data / Z (I have Vin's animated text working from there) but installed this and zilch, no sound from any vehicle whatsoever.  Take this out and the sounds return OK.  The voice mod also seems to result in very little verbal activity from the squads too (but that might just be down to doing a short test with two squads but not a sound when they've been given a move order and nothing when they spot enemy infantry.
    Not sure if it's a Mac issue, MY Mac with an issue or a mod compatibility problem.  Shame was looking forward to using them both, binned for now
  8. Like
    Apache reacted to The Steppenwulf in UI mod - Juju etc?   
    Currently I have a UI mod for SF2 in the works. I wanted to release it before now but I'm trying to go one step further than the BS mod and improve on some things. I hope to get it to a place where I'm happy with it in a month or so There'll also be an update to the BS mod since many aspects of that mod have evolved since the last version. Here's a screenie shot from my SF2 version (by way of preview) of what you'll get.


  9. Like
    Apache reacted to Erwin in UI mod - Juju etc?   
    Most of the CMSF1 UI, Terrain, Vehicle, and FX mods work in CMSF2.   My understanding is that CMSF1 uniforms do not work(?)
  10. Like
    Apache reacted to Bulletpoint in Kampfgruppe Peiper Campaign   
    Same here. I chose not to rest, and expected my troops to take a hit to their fitness, but they seemed fit as ever. Either it's the effect of the Panzer chocolate, or somebody forgot something I suppose.
    The choice/consequence thing was poorly executed, but it's still a great campaign.
  11. Like
    Apache reacted to Derfel 2nd in Update on Engine 4 patches   
    Amen to that brother, Amen to that. (or "So Say We All" for the nerdier folks).
    After all these years I still get a kick from remembering the guys insisting that ASL and it's ilk were SO much better and entertaining than any wretched computer game, firing up CMBO and watching their jaws thudding to the ground...
  12. Like
    Apache reacted to Redmarkus in Kampfgruppe Peiper Campaign   
    Things went well for me until this mission. I've been forced to restart the campaign.
    Spoiler below in white text. Highlight to read:
    After choosing the rest option and the no-fuel option in Stavelot, I took my entire force around the right flank at Stoumont, in order to occupy the high ground and deal with as many allied AFVs as possible from range. I actually made it along the muddy track and through the woods with only two bogged vehicles. However, allied infantry in the woods and very accurate enemy mortar fire caused crippling losses to my infantry.
    I feel that the allied opposition builds up too quickly. IIRC, Peiper had more problems with engineers blowing bridges under his nose and having to find new routes than with organized defenders at this early stage, but maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps the designers decide to skip the 'boring' minor events and focus on the larger engagements. I'd have liked to have a few recon platoon-sized 'race for the bridge in 10 minutes' scenarios early on though...
  13. Upvote
    Apache got a reaction from Holien in Update on Engine 4 patches   
    I used to be a tabletop gamer.  Recall the first time I fired up CM1, the loading music, throwing Shermans down the road towards occupied positions.  Sensational.  Even dabbled again in tabletop long after that, whatever rules (and there were bloody loads from the more action movie style Flames of War to the 25 tables of Battlefront WWII) the club was playing with scenery that was at best dire compared to even CM1.  Spent lots of $$$, HOURS of time painting just to have ONE reasonable sized Armored Infantry Company with support, then there was the time to set up, and again, play against who (especially as the scourge of 40K and the now defunct Warhammer spread).  
    Gave up in the end, settled on CM for all my wargaming fix and happier for it.  What a long way CM has come since then.  For any of the faults folks might find with CM (I still find myself screaming, albeit less now (just luck of the draw) "Cheating AI" when the ONLY guy in my squad that gets taken out is the damn leader and a tank almost instantly spots and whacks my (I thought) perfectly set up and hidden AT ambush) even the worst of the odd anomalies still leaves the game light years ahead of even the best table top options (6 to hit, 3 to save blah blah blah mechanics) plus, outstanding terrain and a TO&E for all the modules that would cost thousands of dollars to collect, paint and store.  Makes me shudder to think.  With the quality of CMFB and CMBS (never thought I'd enjoy modern, though ATGMs still annoy the hell out of me!) I don't even find myself modding these days, well, not AS much.  More than a few times though, being retired, I've fired up a quick game at 10pm only to find the sun peaking through the blinds at 7am, just after the "bloody cheating AI ;)" zapped the FO team, and who gets takes out, yes the bloody observer!!!
    Looking forward to the patches.
  14. Upvote
    Apache got a reaction from BletchleyGeek in Update on Engine 4 patches   
    I used to be a tabletop gamer.  Recall the first time I fired up CM1, the loading music, throwing Shermans down the road towards occupied positions.  Sensational.  Even dabbled again in tabletop long after that, whatever rules (and there were bloody loads from the more action movie style Flames of War to the 25 tables of Battlefront WWII) the club was playing with scenery that was at best dire compared to even CM1.  Spent lots of $$$, HOURS of time painting just to have ONE reasonable sized Armored Infantry Company with support, then there was the time to set up, and again, play against who (especially as the scourge of 40K and the now defunct Warhammer spread).  
    Gave up in the end, settled on CM for all my wargaming fix and happier for it.  What a long way CM has come since then.  For any of the faults folks might find with CM (I still find myself screaming, albeit less now (just luck of the draw) "Cheating AI" when the ONLY guy in my squad that gets taken out is the damn leader and a tank almost instantly spots and whacks my (I thought) perfectly set up and hidden AT ambush) even the worst of the odd anomalies still leaves the game light years ahead of even the best table top options (6 to hit, 3 to save blah blah blah mechanics) plus, outstanding terrain and a TO&E for all the modules that would cost thousands of dollars to collect, paint and store.  Makes me shudder to think.  With the quality of CMFB and CMBS (never thought I'd enjoy modern, though ATGMs still annoy the hell out of me!) I don't even find myself modding these days, well, not AS much.  More than a few times though, being retired, I've fired up a quick game at 10pm only to find the sun peaking through the blinds at 7am, just after the "bloody cheating AI ;)" zapped the FO team, and who gets takes out, yes the bloody observer!!!
    Looking forward to the patches.
  15. Like
    Apache got a reaction from wadepm in Update on Engine 4 patches   
    I used to be a tabletop gamer.  Recall the first time I fired up CM1, the loading music, throwing Shermans down the road towards occupied positions.  Sensational.  Even dabbled again in tabletop long after that, whatever rules (and there were bloody loads from the more action movie style Flames of War to the 25 tables of Battlefront WWII) the club was playing with scenery that was at best dire compared to even CM1.  Spent lots of $$$, HOURS of time painting just to have ONE reasonable sized Armored Infantry Company with support, then there was the time to set up, and again, play against who (especially as the scourge of 40K and the now defunct Warhammer spread).  
    Gave up in the end, settled on CM for all my wargaming fix and happier for it.  What a long way CM has come since then.  For any of the faults folks might find with CM (I still find myself screaming, albeit less now (just luck of the draw) "Cheating AI" when the ONLY guy in my squad that gets taken out is the damn leader and a tank almost instantly spots and whacks my (I thought) perfectly set up and hidden AT ambush) even the worst of the odd anomalies still leaves the game light years ahead of even the best table top options (6 to hit, 3 to save blah blah blah mechanics) plus, outstanding terrain and a TO&E for all the modules that would cost thousands of dollars to collect, paint and store.  Makes me shudder to think.  With the quality of CMFB and CMBS (never thought I'd enjoy modern, though ATGMs still annoy the hell out of me!) I don't even find myself modding these days, well, not AS much.  More than a few times though, being retired, I've fired up a quick game at 10pm only to find the sun peaking through the blinds at 7am, just after the "bloody cheating AI ;)" zapped the FO team, and who gets takes out, yes the bloody observer!!!
    Looking forward to the patches.
  16. Like
    Apache got a reaction from A Canadian Cat in Update on Engine 4 patches   
    I used to be a tabletop gamer.  Recall the first time I fired up CM1, the loading music, throwing Shermans down the road towards occupied positions.  Sensational.  Even dabbled again in tabletop long after that, whatever rules (and there were bloody loads from the more action movie style Flames of War to the 25 tables of Battlefront WWII) the club was playing with scenery that was at best dire compared to even CM1.  Spent lots of $$$, HOURS of time painting just to have ONE reasonable sized Armored Infantry Company with support, then there was the time to set up, and again, play against who (especially as the scourge of 40K and the now defunct Warhammer spread).  
    Gave up in the end, settled on CM for all my wargaming fix and happier for it.  What a long way CM has come since then.  For any of the faults folks might find with CM (I still find myself screaming, albeit less now (just luck of the draw) "Cheating AI" when the ONLY guy in my squad that gets taken out is the damn leader and a tank almost instantly spots and whacks my (I thought) perfectly set up and hidden AT ambush) even the worst of the odd anomalies still leaves the game light years ahead of even the best table top options (6 to hit, 3 to save blah blah blah mechanics) plus, outstanding terrain and a TO&E for all the modules that would cost thousands of dollars to collect, paint and store.  Makes me shudder to think.  With the quality of CMFB and CMBS (never thought I'd enjoy modern, though ATGMs still annoy the hell out of me!) I don't even find myself modding these days, well, not AS much.  More than a few times though, being retired, I've fired up a quick game at 10pm only to find the sun peaking through the blinds at 7am, just after the "bloody cheating AI ;)" zapped the FO team, and who gets takes out, yes the bloody observer!!!
    Looking forward to the patches.
  17. Like
    Apache got a reaction from benpark in Update on Engine 4 patches   
    I used to be a tabletop gamer.  Recall the first time I fired up CM1, the loading music, throwing Shermans down the road towards occupied positions.  Sensational.  Even dabbled again in tabletop long after that, whatever rules (and there were bloody loads from the more action movie style Flames of War to the 25 tables of Battlefront WWII) the club was playing with scenery that was at best dire compared to even CM1.  Spent lots of $$$, HOURS of time painting just to have ONE reasonable sized Armored Infantry Company with support, then there was the time to set up, and again, play against who (especially as the scourge of 40K and the now defunct Warhammer spread).  
    Gave up in the end, settled on CM for all my wargaming fix and happier for it.  What a long way CM has come since then.  For any of the faults folks might find with CM (I still find myself screaming, albeit less now (just luck of the draw) "Cheating AI" when the ONLY guy in my squad that gets taken out is the damn leader and a tank almost instantly spots and whacks my (I thought) perfectly set up and hidden AT ambush) even the worst of the odd anomalies still leaves the game light years ahead of even the best table top options (6 to hit, 3 to save blah blah blah mechanics) plus, outstanding terrain and a TO&E for all the modules that would cost thousands of dollars to collect, paint and store.  Makes me shudder to think.  With the quality of CMFB and CMBS (never thought I'd enjoy modern, though ATGMs still annoy the hell out of me!) I don't even find myself modding these days, well, not AS much.  More than a few times though, being retired, I've fired up a quick game at 10pm only to find the sun peaking through the blinds at 7am, just after the "bloody cheating AI ;)" zapped the FO team, and who gets takes out, yes the bloody observer!!!
    Looking forward to the patches.
  18. Upvote
    Apache got a reaction from JSj in Update on Engine 4 patches   
    I used to be a tabletop gamer.  Recall the first time I fired up CM1, the loading music, throwing Shermans down the road towards occupied positions.  Sensational.  Even dabbled again in tabletop long after that, whatever rules (and there were bloody loads from the more action movie style Flames of War to the 25 tables of Battlefront WWII) the club was playing with scenery that was at best dire compared to even CM1.  Spent lots of $$$, HOURS of time painting just to have ONE reasonable sized Armored Infantry Company with support, then there was the time to set up, and again, play against who (especially as the scourge of 40K and the now defunct Warhammer spread).  
    Gave up in the end, settled on CM for all my wargaming fix and happier for it.  What a long way CM has come since then.  For any of the faults folks might find with CM (I still find myself screaming, albeit less now (just luck of the draw) "Cheating AI" when the ONLY guy in my squad that gets taken out is the damn leader and a tank almost instantly spots and whacks my (I thought) perfectly set up and hidden AT ambush) even the worst of the odd anomalies still leaves the game light years ahead of even the best table top options (6 to hit, 3 to save blah blah blah mechanics) plus, outstanding terrain and a TO&E for all the modules that would cost thousands of dollars to collect, paint and store.  Makes me shudder to think.  With the quality of CMFB and CMBS (never thought I'd enjoy modern, though ATGMs still annoy the hell out of me!) I don't even find myself modding these days, well, not AS much.  More than a few times though, being retired, I've fired up a quick game at 10pm only to find the sun peaking through the blinds at 7am, just after the "bloody cheating AI ;)" zapped the FO team, and who gets takes out, yes the bloody observer!!!
    Looking forward to the patches.
  19. Like
    Apache reacted to MikeyD in Wehrmacht resilience vs. Dogface nervousness   
    There are no 'national modifiers' in the game but a scenario designer might chose to make one side fanatic elites and the other side green with low motivation (even scenario designers can fall prey to the Übermensch myth). Or, if both sides are picked equal one side only will facing the dreaded MG42 or the MP40 smg during close-in battles. Or both side may be equal but one side is out of contact with his command or his leader has unusually high or low leadership skills.
  20. Like
    Apache reacted to sburke in Wehrmacht resilience vs. Dogface nervousness   
    to expand on Wicky's more … succinct answer.    Battlefront does not set any sides troops to be superior.  Those settings you or the scenario designer would use in the editor if you want to create a unit with more or less experience or morale.  The goal of the game is to try and reflect as much as possible what equipment and doctrine would reflect.  The Americans for example have some advantages in firepower with the Garand versus the Mauser, but the German placement of MGs into squads can completely alter that firepower balance.  Americans have better comms and therefore better C2 and faster call times for arty etc etc.
    That .50 firing for 5 minutes should have an impact. (actually a few impacts - I am surprised that there is only one casualty.)  I'd have to see the game in question to give better feedback.
  21. Like
    Apache reacted to Swervin11b in Wehrmacht resilience vs. Dogface nervousness   
    I’m pretty new to the game, so I play mainly Quick Battles so I can get the hang of it before moving on to the more challenging scenarios. I tried a few out and knew I needed to really know the game well to be able to succeed. 
    I go with Basic Training difficulty level. I usually set the Germans (regular Wehrmacht) at “regular,” “fit,” “normal” motivation, and 0 leadership. For Allied I’ll go “veteran,” “fit,” “high” motivation, and +1 leadership. Again, just to learn. I’m not giving my guys much of an edge, and I ensure the Germans are well armed. I usually do companies opposing one another with supporting arms.
    My observation thus far is that the Germans are some crack troops, and the Americans can be really skittish. 
    It’s proven very difficult to get the Germans suppressed, for instance. I had a game earlier where a .50 cal belted suppressing fire on a Sturm squad for a good five minutes - accurate enough to inflict one casualty - but the unit was still not suppressed. Just an example. I’m not a great player yet, but when firing at a squad from two directions well within effective range, they should keep their heads down. 
    Conversely, the Americans tend to freak out when they take popshots and panic immediately when taking indirect fire, so much so that I can almost write them off once the first enemy spotting round comes close. 
    Are the Germans designed to be really tough? did play against SS once, who were insane,  but Wehrmacht seems to be pretty elite, too. Are the Americans inherently weaker?
    I’d be interested to hear the insights of more seasoned players. 
    Anyway...I’ve been looking for a game like this since I was a kid spending Saturday mornings with Close Combat IV.  Thanks! Keep up the good work. I got CMFB and CMBN so far, and will no doubt end up with other titles 
  22. Like
    Apache reacted to landser in BFC - Time to Rethink the 'Roadmap'?   
    Lots of ideas and I understand everyone has their favorites, or the course they'd like to see Combat Mission take and that's understandable and quite useful even. So I'd like to throw mine in as well.
    I'm concerned about the future of this fantastic tactical simulator. In my opinion, while new units, theaters and modules are all welcomed, the thing that the series is in most need of is a way for the player to more easily generate his own content. I've been playing since the CMBO demo so I've been along for the whole ride, as many here have. I'm not a continuous player, I take breaks and then come back to it from time to time. I really do love the gameplay, to me Combat Mission is the best game of it's kind, and I want to see it succeed and evolve.
    In my view the biggest problem is the lack of good content. Part of this is the fact that single scenarios leave me cold, so unfortunately this brushes aside much of the quality content that actually does exist. My preference is campaign play. And here the series falls woefully short in my opinion. I'll give you a little insight from my experience as a part-time player, if you'll indulge me.
    Around 2015 I got back in to Combat Mission and bought both the CMBN big bundle and Red Thunder. I played (or at least started) every campaign I could find for both titles. It wasn't very many, maybe a dozen or a few more. Some of them I found excellent (Devils Descent, Outlaws, Kampfgruppe Engel and more). Some I found of poor quality (no need to mention which), and some I found far too large for my taste.
    I played for about a year and then shelved Combat Mission as I moved on to other stuff. Recently I had the itch to play once more. Excited to see what new content there was for me to play, I forked over the $10 for the engine 4 upgrade for CMBN and went in search of new campaigns to play. What a disappointment. What I found is there are very few new campaigns since two years ago. The Repository doesn't exist anymore correct? So I found what was available on the Scenario Depot and on IanL's site, which are mostly the same ones anyway.
    On the Scenario Depot here's what I found for WW2 titles
    Battle for Normandy -- 11 campaigns
    Fortress Italy -- 2 campaigns
    Red Thunder -- 4 campaigns
    Final Blitzkreig -- 1 campaign
    All of those CMBN and CMRT campaigns I played two years ago. Combing through forum threads reveals a few more, and more recent. But in the end that's a very small number of campaigns, with little new coming out. The nature of Combat Mission's current campaign system leaves me with little motivation to replay campaigns I already have. AI plans only go so far. Essentially you already know what you're up against,  and the best AoAs, even if the AT gun is in a different place. So I'm left with a choice of campaigns to replay with little desire to do so.
    And while I am willing to try anything,  I really enjoy campaigns that feature a core force of about reinforced company strength. I really don't enjoy scenarios that are about a battalion or stronger. These aren't necessarily harder or easier, but much more involved. It's personal preference, and I'm glad they exist for the folks who enjoy them Lions of Carpiquet comes to mind. It seems a quality piece of work from a knowledgeable and skilled author, but it's just not my cuppa.
    So back to my main point. As a campaign player I am at the mercy of the scenario designers. One might say well then make your own and stop bitchin'. But what fun is it playing a campaign I designed myself? The scripted nature of Combat Mission means I will know every unit, where they are, what time they are reinforced and so you lose the very things that make playing new campaigns so interesting, like uncertainty. If I know the enemy has four AT guns, and I've already taken out four I know there are no AT guns left. That's no good. I have to proceed as if there might be another four still waiting for me.
    At the heart of the matter is there is no way to generate my own content. And little new stuff comes out I presume because making campaigns is so difficult. Didn't I once read that Paper Tiger spent 800 hours making Road to Montebourg? 800? If that's true it's no wonder that so little comes out. What I think the series desperately needs is a way for the player to generate his own campaigns. This idea isn't new around here, and clearly isn't on the roadmap (right?) But until something like this exists, folks like me who want to play campaigns of a certain scope will be left out in the cold, reading AARs instead of actually playing the game. I have very specific ideas of the sort of system I'd like to see, but I doubt my ideas haven't already been offered here at one point or another so I won't make a long post way longer by detailing them.
    At the time CMBB came out I was happy with the Operations feature. Sure it had it's wrinkles and there were things I wished worked differently or that were changed. But that system was removed and while the episodic system we have now can be fun, and a good story can be told, it's not the answer in the long run. Not only does it appear prohibitively difficult to use, it leaves little replay value in my view. Combat Mission Campaigns was the light at the end of the tunnel, but it failed and nothing has filled the void.
    This post is way longer than intended so I'll wrap it up. I fully support new theaters and modules. I am as eager as anyone to see a new engine. But unless there is also a new way for me to enjoy the game then in essence nothing's really changed. I don't need better uniform textures or additional armored cars and trench types. I need a new campaign system that offers flexibility and a way for me to generate endless content that appeals to me. I hope one day this comes to be.
  23. Like
    Apache reacted to Bulletpoint in Infantry and Armour Tactics Info?   
    True in theory, but we rarely see these tactics work out in the game, for several reasons. Not to argue against you, but reading your post inspired me to write a couple of reflections about the limits of infantry tactics in Combat Mission:
    First of all, the subleties of infantry tactics tend to fade to the background once there's armour on the field, and generally there's always plenty of tanks and AFVs in CM scenarios. Once you have armour support, I think it mostly becomes a game of using infantry to probe, then blast pockets of resistance with the tanks, then advance and repeat it.
      The second reason is that overwatch is arguably less effective in the game as compared to real life. The maneuver element takes a lot of incoming fire before dropping down, and the overwatch element takes a quite long time to spot and engage the enemy. Once it opens up, the overwatch element then stops firing again as soon as it loses sight of the enemy. In real life, (trained) troops would be intelligent enough to keep suppressing the enemy position while the maneuver element either continued on or broke contact.
      Thirdly, one MG can only reliably suppress one floor of one building. If the enemy squad is split into two sections and they are in two adjacent small modular buildings, you need two machineguns to target and suppress both, even though from the outside, it just looks like one building.
      Also, it takes a lot of fire to suppress anyone, and the effect disappears quite quickly.
  24. Like
    Apache reacted to IICptMillerII in Demo Feedback   
    Wet blanket alert.
    I think the remark Steve made was more a general comment on how far computing capabilities have come. There are some pretty powerful CPU's out there that are pretty affordable, as well as some workstation CPU's that have insane processing power. (64 cores!) When Shock Force 1 came out, I think the standard CPU was still the Pentium line. Even if it was past Pentium, the advancement in processor power in the past 10 years has been substantial. 
    Further, I'm likely in the minority here who is not looking forward to a possible CMx3. The reason is simple. CMx3 will be a restart. Just like CMx2 was a restart from CMx1. Imagine it taking another 5-10 years just to get back to Normandy, let alone the other theaters of WWII. There are so many other conflicts CM could do as well, but those conflicts are only profitable/practical after the big selling theaters are made (Normandy). 
    Personally, I would rather see more improvements made to the CMx2 engine as well as more games/modules covering more of the Eastern Front in WWII as well as other historical conflicts, such as Korea 1950 to name one of many. Doing those 2 things alone would likely take another 5 or so years. I would rather wait 5 years on the current engine than wait 10+ years just to get back to the same theaters we already have but in a new engine. 
  25. Like
    Apache reacted to Vet 0369 in Should i pre-order bundle or separate modules?   
    Preorders are available now, but the discounted CMSF2 and modules for those who own CMSF and modules aren't available for preorder, so you could preorder British Forces and NATO now, and purchase the CMSF2 + Marines when CMSF2 is released.
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