Treeburst155

I've an interesting development to report. It appears Section 3 is finished with, "We Can't Wait". They've all played it. Should I give them any information on that scenario? Treeburst155 out.

Just a reminder. You have ELEVEN days left to complete your games. Is everyone on track to make it? If not, be prepared to show that it wasn't your fault so you don't get disqualified. At this point only StuG III has finished all his games. Remember, all players who don't complete their games are disqualified and all their finished games are erased from players' records. Could StuG III win just for finishing? It will be interesting. Treeburst155 out.

Thanks, Nabla! What's "standard error"? EDIT: OK, I get it now. The only problem I have is when I use "-d" with more than 22 players for a scenario (24 is common)the results scroll by and I can't read the top ones. I've tried inserting "/p" and "/w" in various places in the command line to no avail. Is there any way I can stop the scrolling until I'm ready to move down the list? Treeburst155 out. [ 10-20-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

Congratulations, Fuerte! That's the second biggest victory of the tourney, and the biggest among active players. I'm expecting more results today so I'm going to hold off on updating the standings until tomorrow. Treeburst155 out.

To kill a Hetzer with any regularity using American armor you would have to go to the 90mm Tank Destroyers (M36 Jackson). The American 76mm with or without tungsten doesn't quite cut it. Now the British Comet, Challenger, or Firefly may be a different story. Yes, the Hetzer does need some tests run on it since one sees it quite often. I think I'll test the Comet against the Hetzer next. Treeburst155 out. [ 10-20-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

TEST FIVE Regular M4A3 Sherman vs Regular StuG IIIG (late) at 304 meters. Tested 150 times. Stug IIIG (late) survival rate: 38% (including 4 immobilizations) M4A3 Sherman suvival rate: 33% (including 5 immobilizations) Mutual destruction: 29% This is a good even matchup. Treeburst155 out.

TEST FOUR VETERAN M10 Tank Destroyer vs REGULAR Jagdpanzer IV at 550 meters. Tested 150 times. Jagdpanzer IV survival rate: 39% M10 survival rate: 39% (including 4 immobilizatons) Mutual destruction: 22% The VET M10 is a great match for a regular Jagdpanzer IV. Survival rate of the M10 without including the immobilizations is still close to 37%. BTW, my margin of error is at least +/- 5% for these tests. Maybe a statistician will see this thread and confirm that for me. Even so, you get a fairly good idea of what your chances are in various duels. I'll save the long range testing for CMBB where it will be more relevant. Time to move on to the StuG IIIG (late) vs M4A3 Sherman at 300 meters. Treeburst155 out. [ 10-20-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

Vanir, I'm not sure the Tac AI is that smart. I think it says, "I can't penetrate THE HULL with AP so I'll load tungsten". This "thinking" will always decrease penetration chances against heavily sloped hulls, but may just be overkill on the turrets/superstructures, thereby not increasing kill chances to the turret. IOW, the Tac AI does not consider WHY it can't penetrate with AP. If the cause is a 60 degree slope then the AI should stay with AP unless the turret is also resistant to the AP, like a Panther. I'm just thinking out loud here. I could be dead wrong.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gyrene: Treeburst, why 154 times? Just curious, I figured an even number like 100 or even 50 would suffice. Are all terrain conditions even? Thanks for posting these results, altough an even experience match up would be better. Gyrene<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> 154 tests was a result of my changing the number of firing lanes on the test scenario during testing. I'm running the tests 150 times so that my results are as close as possible to the truth. There's a bigger margin of error than you may think, even with 150 runs. One of our statistician types told me that awhile back. The test range has 10 isolated firing lanes so I run the turn 15 times. I'm doing all sorts of experience matchups. The uneven ones are in there because I'm looking for close matches. It has to do with my endless quest for play balance. It looks like a vet M10 is a great match for a regular Jagdpanzer IV. I'm not done with the test yet however. BTW, the test field is a billiard table with clear weather. I'm just interested in head on shootouts with no cover. Treeburst155 out.

Tungsten has less ability to penetrate highly sloped armor than AP. Perhaps the chances were borderline "good" with the AP. When you added the tungsten rounds the chances dropped into the "ok" range. Ya think? Treeburst155 out.

You're welcome, guys. That's it for tonight. Tomorrow I'll test a regular Stug IIIG (late) vs regular M4A3 Sherman at 300 meters; and something I'm curious about, a vet M10 TD with five rounds of tungsten (plus default AP) vs a regular Jagdpanzer IV. Treeburst155 out.

Yes, double kills are actually quite frequent. Notice that the survival percentages do not total 100%. It would seem to me this is because of the double kills. TEST THREE Regular M4A3 Sherman vs Regular Panzer IVJ at 550 meters. Tested 150 times. M4A3 Sherman one minute survival rate: 35% Panzer IVJ one minute survival rate: 43% In no case did both vehicles survive the minute. Treeburst155 out.

TEST TWO Regular Greyhound vs Regular Puma at 550 meters. Tested 150 times. Greyhound one minute survival rate: 44% Puma one minute survival rate: 31% In no case did both vehicles survive the minute. Treeburst155 out.

That's a tough one, Redwolf. The Allied vehicles would probably use smoke rather than shoot. Treeburst155 out.

Redwolf, You want me to put a Greyhound or 75mm Sherman against a Panther just to see how many shot trap kills they get? I'll bet Panther survival rate will be 99%. I'll put that test on my list. Treeburst155 out.

It does take some time, but my curiosity requires me to run these tests. I do it while I watch the non-stop war coverage on the cable news channels. I'll run the Puma vs Greyhound next. Treeburst155 out.

I've decided to run a lengthy series of tests of various armor matchups in CM. There are countless tests that could be run, especially when you consider that any vehicle matchup could be tested at a variety of ranges and experience combinations. As I complete these tests I will report the results here. Here's the first one: TEST ONE Crack M36 Jackson vs Regular Panther (PzVG late) at 550 meters for one minute. Tested 154 times. 35% of the crack Jacksons survived the minute including one immobilized vehicle. Vehicles are considered destroyed if they sustain gun damage. 48% of the regular Panthers survived the minute including four immobilized vehicles. Again, gun damage = Destroyed. In no case did both vehicles survive the minute. If there is some combination you would like to see tested just email me. Treeburst155 out. [ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

I don't really see the problem here. Franko's August Bank Holiday has plenty of long range action if the Allied player allows it. A decent very large map can be made in just a couple hours. Forget QBs. Purchase in the editor. Fight better battles on nicer maps. It's worth the extra effort. Just my opinion. Treeburst155 out.

Poor CDIC. He's been thrust right into the middle of six different battles. LOL!! I have faith he can handle the challenge well. Stixx's troopers are in good hands. BTW, my email is still out. I can receive but I can't send. Treeburst155 out.

Battlefront should send the first copies to people who can prove they have the "Panther print" they received for pre-ordering CMBO BEFORE the beta demo came out. I have such a print. I should be ahead of 90% of the community at least. Treeburst155 out.

What will really happen is that BTS will create an obscure little thread that forum regulars will notice but others won't. Then the regulars will melt down Battlefront computers with orders. 10-14 days after that a few will start getting their copies and post feverishly to the forum. In fact, "I got mine" posts will last for at least 30 days. This will aggravate those who haven't "got theirs". The latter will bitch and moan and start threads for the downtrodden who have not yet received the game. Just about the time the "where's mine?" threads slip out of view the bug threads will have become fairly prominent and long. Much of this will be caused by people who don't read the manual. All through this period will be endless "thank you" posts to BTS for their great game. This is really unnecessary. You bought the game. That's all the thanks they need. If you really want to thank them, buy a second copy. Now THAT'S a "thank you". The bug threads will be interesting. There will be three different types. 1)Those bug threads started because people don't read the manual. These are obviously not bugs. 2)Obvious bugs that BTS will fix very quickly. 3)Perceived bugs having to do with unit behaviour. These are the interesting ones because people will spend weeks trying to convince BTS they have modelled something wrong. BTS will resist changes with extreme vigor; a vigor matched only by the tenacity of the proponents of some change. It is possible some changes will go into a patch as a result of these "Grog Wars". That's how it will happen. Treeburst155 out.

I stand corrected then. I wish I would see the first round "c" shots. I haven't been that fortunate yet. I commented above how firing tungsten at Panthers might not be smart since the slope on both upper and lower hull is so extreme. This is wrong because standard AP rarely, if ever, penetrates anyway judging by the penetration charts. At least the tungsten has a much better chance of penetrating the Panther turret front. It appears that Panthers especially seem to attract the first shot tungsten and "c" rounds. Interesting. Treeburst155 out. [ 10-16-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

I think tanks with "c" rounds will always fire HE to clear the chamber before loading "c". IOW, I have never seen one of these support tanks fire "c" rounds at enemy armor without first firing HE. With tungsten and AP this does not appear to be the case. My Sherman spotted and killed a Panther in 6-7 seconds with tungsten on the first shot. No round swapping modelled there. I'm very surprised to learn that tungsten is less effective than AP at 60 degrees slope. I'll have to pay more attention to the stats. That makes my first round tungsten shot not too bright. Luckily I hit the turret. Treeburst155 out.

The standings have been updated. Outgoing email still down. Incoming mail SEEMS to be working fine. I will send out the MickOZ/Ari Maenpaa battlefield as soon as I am able. Treeburst155 out.

The latest news from the front! MickOZ has defeated Jarmo 59-30. Congratulations, MickOZ!! This moves Mick up to 7th place behind Jarmo. I will be updating the standings page very soon. Right now I'm trying to catch up on the email I could not take care of yesterday due to my email being down. If you received any mail from me that was just a blank page let me know so I can resend. Thanks! Treeburst155 out.