Treeburst155

Listen up!! This is important! I received an email from "Nabla" (Jarmo Hurri)of Finland. He described to me a scoring system that I think is excellent. It's a Duplicate Bridge scoring system. It's a good way to score CM tournaments because scenarios are very difficult to truly balance. Here's how it works. I'm quoting Nabla's email to me: "A particular problem I've been interested in is scoring in the case of uneven battles, that is, in battles where one side has a much better chance of winning to begin with. This is important for two reasons. 1) Uneven battles are what a commander generally faces in the real world. 2) A truly even battle is very difficult to generate (and some losers will disagree anyhow). While many games with scoring systems are inherently even (such as chess), fortunately there is an uneven game from which we can borrow the scoring system: bridge. In bridge you have to play with what you've been given, and you can have very uneven hands. What I've got in mind is an n-player tournament where you have n-1 battles. Each player plays each battle once, and also plays once against each opponent. The results of ONE BATTLE are scored as follows. The player who gets the best ALLIED CM POINTS in a battle scores n-1 GAME POINTS for that battle and the player who gets the worst ALLIED CM POINTS gets 0 GAME POINTS for that battle. Points are computed similarly for Axis side. Sum up over battles, see who has most points, and you've got a winner. This is the scoring system used in duplicate bridge. Note that in this system the performance of each player is compared to the performance of players playing on the same side (for example, as Allied). This enables the use of uneven battles. As mentioned above, the real beauty of such a game system would be the possibility to have them play uneven battles. I mean, tournament administrators would design the battles, and they could be as uneven as one wishes (actually they could be generated partially randomly), you could have intelligence info which might be inaccurate etc. And it would not take such a long time to design the battles since they would not have to be balanced. " This I think is a brilliant scoring idea! I would like to convert this tournament to this scoring system. Say you are playing the Allies in Scenario A and you get whipped 80-20. Your 20 points for that scenario will be compared to all the other Allied scores from that scenario. If the best any Allied player did on that scenario is 35 points then it is fairly obvious the scenario is not balanced well (VERY difficult to do without extensive, repeated testing). Your 20 points will be ranked (compared)with all other Allied scores for that tournament. It's a perfect way to handle scenario imbalance!! What do you say, guys? Should we convert to the duplicate bridge scoring system? I think we should. Let's call it the "Nabla" system. Since the highest score you can get for a game is 7 points we would make AARs worth .7 additional points. This makes an AAR worth 1/10th of a perfect game, just like it is now. How about it? Let me have some feedback. The only drawback I can think of is that you really won't know how you stand until ALL the scenarios are finished. Until then you would only have an approximation from the game scores. I would redo the standings page by listing results for each scenario. I'll have to think about how to best do it. Treeburst155 out.

Does anybody have any updates they would like to post? I'm really interested since this is a tight race. Treeburst155 out.

Once the newness of CMBB wears off I'm sure there will be a group of hardcore western front enthusiasts who return to CMBO unless the new features and tweaks improve gameplay dramatically. I will probably be one of them. However, when they get to North Africa and Italy I will probably go so far as to commit the ultimate blasphemy and remove CMBO from my hard drive. As it is now I rarely take it out of the CD tray. If you like the western front a great deal you should buy every game BTS puts out so they are still around when it comes time to redo the 1944-45 western front, which is on their list after the other theaters I believe. Treeburst155 out. [ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

Holien, Feel free to send your AARs directly to Wild Bill if you want. To all, Leonard Dickens has dealt a severe blow to Tom Travisano with an 87-13 victory. Congratulations, Leonard!! He also turned in a nice AAR which I will be forwarding to Wild Bill, his testers, and WineCape. All tourney participants will eventually have access to these AARs. I may even have a volunteer to post them to a web page. I'm waiting to hear back from him. On the standings page, any points for AARs will be figured directly into a player's total points. The average score per game will also reflect AAR points. AARs don't have to be turned in immediately after the game is finished. You can take your time writing them. Treeburst155 out.

Peter, Yeah, go ahead and exchange passwords if you want. The Kingfish/Svensson game has been recorded along with 10 extra points to Peter for the excellent AAR. I will post the results to the "Standings" page as soon as I get a few more in. Treeburst155 out.

Thanks, Redeker. It does take some time to distribute the scenarios in this secure manner, but comments like yours make it all worth it. WineCape, There are no AARs yet, but I'm expecting one very soon from Kingfish. He has a game nearing completion. Treeburst155 out.

News from the front! Ari Maenpaa smokes jShandorf 78-22! Congratulations, Ari!! Ari is off to a great start. If he can keep it up he will be a serious threat to Fionn and CDIC. We'll know after he gets another game or two completed. Treeburst155 out.

...and all this time I thought FOW was "fog of war". Ah well, I learn something every day. Treeburst155 out.

Go ahead, Steve. Wage an all out war on gamey stuff! Let's end gamey play in our time. Treeburst155 out.

But Scipio, the tanks SHOULD be able to take out the unarmored flak vehicles. I don't worry about cherry picking and ahistorical purchases in general for the reasons Redwolf mentioned above, as long as players don't get ridiculous in one category such as arty for an example. My beef is with gamey tactics. How do you know what tactics are gamey? Ask yourself these questions: Would the order be given in real life? Would the order be obeyed in real life? If carried out, would the action produce realistic results (casualties, intel)? Are you taking advantage of game limitations and/or flaws such as absolute spotting, map edges, morale modelling issues, etc.? Think like a commander, not like a game player and you won't get accused of gamey play, except by people who think it's gamey for you to beat them. Treeburst155 out.

I'm assuming the "extreme FOW" option to be included in CMBB will be more realistic than the current "full FOW" we have now. Is there anyone out there who won't use it exclusively? Does anyone use the "partial FOW" option we have now? Just curious. Treeburst155 out.

Hey Dad, Go ahead and take the plunge. You won't regret it. If the demo works then the full version will work. Even if it didn't, there are several here who give excellent technical advice. It will work, and you will really like the game if you can get your son away from it. Treeburst155 out.

Yes Schrullenhaft, you are my technical guru too. Keep up the good work. It is most certainly appreciated by many of us. Treeburst155 out.

What's the status of the Fangorn/Mike8g game? It could be a very crucial game. Treeburst155 out.

Considering this thread and the highly competitive nature of you NZers it appears you guys might enjoy a strictly NZ tournament. I could use the best custom maps I have from the Invitational Tourney. I'd say six people would be a nice size so it doesn't take too long. The prize? How about $25 US to the winner? Are you guys interested? Treeburst155 out.

MickOZ trounces Berlichtingen in the Bonus Prize game!! Not content with the mere 75 point victory necessary to win the $50 bonus prize, he went on to a 93-7 rout of the Evil One. Congratulations, Mick!! Your cash is on its way! Keep in mind this game will not affect the standings since Berli has withdrawn from the tournament. The bonus game was well underway before Berli withdrew, and since the prize was offered, I didn't think it was right to withdraw the offer just because Berli had to bow out. Fuerte, Did you get your map for your game with MickOZ? I've got his purchases. We're waiting on you. Again, Congratulations to MickOZ, the winner of the $50 Bonus Prize!! Treeburst155 out.

Can anybody tell me just how much vehicle crews are worth to the enemy if they become casualties? I've always heard they are costly to lose, but never exactly HOW costly. Thanks! Treeburst155 out.

I don't know of anyone who has ever beaten Kiwi Joe. I'm sure it's happened on the ladders a few times, but I couldn't tell you who managed to do it. Kiwi Joe is lucky, you know. The luckiest CM player on earth, actually. He doesn't have an ounce of skill. Really! Treeburst155 out.

Hi John, If you are using Netscape you may have problems with the standings link. I really have no idea how to fix this. I just learned a little HTML so I could post the standings. There is a fix I posted to this thread awhile back that involves manually changing some characters. Check back a page or two or three. Treeburst155 out.

OK, as near as I can tell, all unfinished games are currently underway. Chuckle has been dropped from the tournament and the standings adjusted accordingly. The absolute deadline for completing your remaining games is November 1st. That should be more than enough time. It's looking like it may be an exciting finish. Treeburst155 out.

If there are no objections, it is time to declare Kiwi Joe the official WINNER of WineCape's Wine Tournament. Congratulations, Kiwi Joe!!! You're definitely an outstanding CM player. You are also the first person ever to win money playing CM. I'm sure WineCape will be in touch with you shortly to arrange shipment of his fine wines. Send me an email with your address. I will be in touch so we can decide the best way to send your $50 cash prize. Again, congratulations to Kiwi Joe, the tournament winner!! Treeburst155 out.

CapitalistDogInChina has defeated MickOZ, 59-41. Congratulations, CDIC!! The standings have been updated. Treeburst155 out.

Hey Maximus, I'd be happy to discuss World War III with you. I've been wanting to speak my mind too. Email me and we'll discuss to our heart's content and not bother the forum with it. Can you say "Armageddon"? Treeburst155 out.

Just for fun I went ahead and removed Chuckle's games from the stats. We have a VERY tight race here. This could be very exciting if everyone finishes their games. Tankbuster and Tincan, You each have one game to finish with Mr Spkr. These games could be very important to the outcome of the tourney. Please finish these games even though you can't win the tournament. You can spoil Mr Spkr's chances! Here's the standings after adjusting for Chuckle: Fangorn.......229...3...76.3 Mike8g........331...5...66.2 Sledge........256...4...64.0 Mr Spkr.......122...2...61.0 tank buster...174...5...34.8 StuG III......194...6...32.3 Tincan........141...5...28.2 StuG III is the only one who has finished all his games. Any one of the top four could win. You guys really have a great little tournament here. Hopefully that will motivate you to finish your games by November 1st. Treeburst155 out.

Recent email from Sledge and Mr Spkr informs me that their games with Fangorn are underway. This means that only Chuckle will be dropped from this tourney (if he doesn't make an appearance by tomorrow). You have until November 1st to finish your games. I will adjust the standings to reflect Chuckle being dropped tomorrow. This will hurt Tankbuster and Tincan, but greatly help Fangorn. [ 09-15-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]