jshandorf
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Posts posted by jshandorf
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Originally posted by Hawkeye:
You know, having played the TacAI for most of my CM career, I've noticed from studying the tactics of other players online that they employ Indirect Fire much more often and with greater effectiveness than I do. I'm the kind of guy who, when given the chance to purchase his troops, maxes out his points on infantry. There's something enormously satisfying to me about purchasing a company, or better yet, a battalion of men. I mean sure, I'll usually get a couple of 81 FO's and maybe some 105's, but infantry are my workhorse. Fionn Kelly, on the other hand (at least according to the AAR's I've viewed), ADORES artillery. Thus, it has only recently occurred to me the potentially (very) large differences in style that one might see between Combat Mission commanders. I, like I said, love infantry, and, therefore, I look at all other units as a means to support them.
Last night, however, I played my first 5000 point game against the TacAI (+1 xp bonus). I was the Americans attacking a randomly generated German-occupied town on a large map. I have to admit, it was a learning experience. I had a pair of rifle companies initiate the advance first with some light armor helping at point and some shermans watching the flanks. The result was this. Around turn 3 or so the first artillery barrage arrived. Around turn 5 both companies were reduced to about half, most of which had some nifty red exclamation points in their status boxes. Meanwhile, my light armor had been annihilated by hidden flak positions and I'd lost about half of my platoon of Shermans to hidden 88's. What was most frustrating, however, was that my infantry were effectively useless now--they were either too reduced in size or in morale by indirect fire. And they had never gotten a shot off.
So I guess my question is this. After having witnessed the potency of a strong indirect fire defense (or even offense potentially) and the minimal risk that is involved in its use, I am inclined to believe the most effective commanders will spend their points on artillery rather than infantry or even vehichles. I wanted, however, to consult the CM message board grogs before I began overhauling my tactics to a less direct-fire oriented style of play. I guess what I'm really wondering is whether the direct-fire oriented commander can still oust his indirect-fire oriented opponent by anything but sheer luck. Essentially, which is better? I appreciate your comments. I hope I'm not too far off in my appraisal of things here.
Hawkeye
Hmmm... Yes. Buy arty. Buy ALOT of arty. Arty can turn the tide or (my favorite) stick the knife in your opponent and stop him from wigglin'.
Also.. Croda is right about spreading guys out. But you also have to send them forward in fewer numbers at first and staggerd more.
Have your infantry make bounds and leaps to and from cover. Have them adjust their coarse and speed. You need to do this to throw off the arty barrage or to atleast minimize it effectiveness.
You should have held your Shermans back until you located the 88s. Then used arty to knock them out.
Jeff
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Originally posted by DekeFentle:
I seem to have referenced a Hamsters made calendar. Based on Sharndorfs standing Friday night orders (washing your hair or playing with mother thumb and her four sisters?) how about Tuesday the 27th 17:00?
When the Whuppin' boy speaks, gather round and hearken well. Pain is humanities most eloquent mentor.
I suppose... but why so far off? What is wrong with Tuesday of next week? Or does that clash with your "Men Who Love Young Boys" club?
BTW I have two computers at my house so the prospect of a little friendly, or unfriendly, TCP/IP game on any other gathering is a definite possibility.
But for our first gathering I prefer a public place in case I will need to make a quick get away into the crowd.
BTW.. Where the hell do you guys want to meet again? And that 17:00 means 5:00 right?
Jeff
[This message has been edited by jshandorf (edited 03-15-2001).]
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Originally posted by CavScout:
Giving more order options is not always "micromanagment". Hell, in fact giving extra order options gets rid of some of the "micromanagment". For example, a "hull down" command. Is it "micromanagment" to use a "hull down" command as those against claim or is it "micromanagement" to zoom it and inspect terrain and emplace individual tanks yourself?
You have a point since I was one of those people a while back.
I would stare and suffer over which exact point my tank should go to be hull down and have the most visibility to the targets or his FOF, but regardless of my past experience I would still NEVER want a hull down command.
The reason for this is that now, since I have been playing the game for quite a while, I can put any tank of mine into a hull down position in about 5 seconds. I just zoom into the terrain take a look and issue the movement order.
So, in essence my experience in the game is paying off, and thus it works vice versa.
Also, being able to hold your arty target is not only probably unrealistic it would also be a crutch for the more inexperienced players.
I feel that all these commands, asked for above, only make the game easier for the less experienced player, and then therefore takes the advantage of being a veteran player away.
When I first started playing CM I was horrible at fire missions and predicting my enemies advance and defensive positions, and therefore my arty was really ineffective. But in time as I gotten better, and learned more, I have had more and more success.
I believe the way CM is designed right now rewards the player with more experience in battle, which is as it should be. Adding in all this extra command functionality only "levels" the play field and therefore takes away the advantage a more experienced player has over a beginner.
Jeff
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GAME UPDATES!
Croda: In our original battle Croda continues to push on. I fear I may not have enough bullets for all his warm bodies. Good thing I saved some REALLY BIG arty for my reserve.. Muahahahaha
In our second BIG BATTLE I have yet to send him back my first orders phase. I think I will do that tonight.
Meeks: I thought this battle was gonna be tough!? So far I am strolling towards my first VL flag. Meeks, the mangy rat that he is, must have something up his sleeve.
JD: Just wanted to mention again how soundly I thumped JD.
Beril: Beril dies quickly and efficiently. My only problem is that I may run out of time again. Sigh....
PeterNZer: The ONLY person that is beating me right now. By the time he runs out of his 150mm arty all I will have left is a few arms and legs to throw at him in defiance. Never again am I attacking him in the snow, that is, until I learn how to. Damn...
Peng: You guys should REALLY see this battle. I am smashing Peng like Sossa smashes baseballs. It's pure perfection. I have a line of armor on a hill over watching the entire attack. The second one of his infantry units appears my tanks make short work of the little house he is hiding in. It is just awesome... Looks like I won't be having any little (*) next to my name.
Babs: I accidentally told all my armor to hide on the first turn. So basically I sat there and let babs bounce 57mm rounds off their hulls. Quite nerve-racking needless to say. Next round I will correct my oversight.
Mensch: Mensch claims he has bought 2 jabos.. So far they are a no show. If they don't show he can be assured of his loss.
Bauhaus: I am halfway through my setup. I should have it out tonight.
Well, that is all. Once again you all, with a few exceptions, have shown yourselves to be merely playthings of mine.
Jeff
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When nuclear weapons are frozen then only freezers will have nuclear weapons.
[This message has been edited by jshandorf (edited 03-15-2001).]
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It is MY feeling that people want TOO much control over each individual unit. So much so I think sometimes they want a "Fart", or "Belch" command.
I am perfectly happy with sending a unit forward and telling it to "Hunt" knowing that it will see, hopefully, the enemy tank, engage it, and then win. I don't want to be telling it which rounds to use, when to pop smoke, when to back up, what target to engage, which way it should be rotating the hull, etc...
I want the unit to figure this out for me. And I know that in letting it do so it can make "mistakes". Fine. I expect mistakes. Sh*t happens. Okay, but what I don't want is blatantly stupid behavior that is repeated over, and over, and over again. I don't believe this happens very often, that is, if at all.
I believe BTS has corrected most of the real errors in CMs tactical AI, and I am very happy with it, and therefore i don't see a real need for finer granularity in the control of units in CM. Let them fight it out! That is the exciting part! That is, never knowing exactly what is gonna happen next.
Jeff
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Originally posted by Seanachai:
Hey, I'm cool with Friday, although over here in Minneapolis it falls on the 23rd on our calendars. Jefe, if we can reconcile the day of the week/numbering system in use by Deke, does this work for you?
I don't know.. Hmmm.. let me see... Oh yeah! Since in my post TWO before yours I feckin' said, and I quote, "Hmmm.. That just won't do at all, in fact that date is just impossible for me. 1) My Fridays are always booked and 2) The 22nd of this month is Thursday." What do you think?!
Friday is NO GOOD. I have plans every Friday that supersede any new plans, and since I do make exceptions in rare cases I just don't think you two are rare enough, comprende?
Now, how about Wednesday, or even Thursday?
jeff
[This message has been edited by jshandorf (edited 03-15-2001).]
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Originally posted by DekeFentle:
I have offered more than either of you deserve, I set the time and date for our encounter as Friday the 22nd of this month at 17:00 hours.
Hmmm.. That just won't do at all, in fact that date is just impossible for me. 1) My Fridays are always booked and 2) The 22nd of this month is Thursday.
How about some other day next week? Possibly one where the cardinal date matches the actual day would be good too.
Jeff
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Originally posted by jd:
hmm reinforced Bn vs reinforced company and you manage ONLY a minor victory, I'd say that that's a victory for me Mrcan'tevenmanageto thumppondscum. That's pathetic, just like your tactics, even rolling up my flank you still could not take all the flags. What a doof. A 3-1 advantage and you squander it like a 2 bit whore squanders her viginity 4x a day.
Jefe, I thought you were supposed to be good? I guess in the venacular allegedly good. Well I haven't seen it. If I, off all people can hpold out against that tsunami of feldgrau you commanded, well the fault must lie at the top of the field command. Minor vic, jefe, minor vic.
Hey, don't come cryin' to me just because you bought crap to defend with.
LOL, you didn't HOLD out, I just couldn't run my troops that far across the board. Given 2 more rounds I would have secured the last flag and many more points. You know, I know, so lets not pretend, shall we?
Well now... I suppose you are going to want some kind of revenge, or satisfaction, eh?
Send me a set up pansy boy and I will show you how a real man defends.
Jeff
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When nuclear weapons are frozen then only freezers will have nuclear weapons.
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Originally posted by Mace:
Picked something up on the weekend?
Anyhow, hope ya get better!
Mace
Well, ya know, Mace. That Foot&Mouth thing HAS been goin' around.
Jeff
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When nuclear weapons are frozen then only freezers will have nuclear weapons.
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Originally posted by Berlichtingen:
I believe oyu aer in error, sir. IIRC the Inner Croda is actually made up of some organic matter. I believe it is a composition known as Kunstduenger (not sure of the English translation)
Is that Crap?
Are you saying Croda is full of Crap?
If that is true then the tensile strength of Crap must be really good.
Jeff
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When nuclear weapons are frozen then only freezers will have nuclear weapons.
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Originally posted by Hamsters:
but also strange algorythms showing that Croda could be used to pierce the side hull of a Daimler armored car.
B]
But did you take into account the tungsten inner Croda?
Remember, the outer Croda is only a sabot casing that is discarded during flight to reveal the inner tungsten Croda.
And since a Tungsten sabot Croda round does not have a ballistic cap the armor multiplier for penetrating any sloped armor, be it rolled or cast steel is considerable.
Oh... and lets not forget that the accuracy of APDCS (Armor Piercing Discarded Croda Sabot) is considerably less because of barrel jump. Though it has been found putting a wieght on the end of the barrel does help limit the effect of unbalanced Crodas.
Jeff
[This message has been edited by jshandorf (edited 03-14-2001).]
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Originally posted by Seanachai:
Yes, Shandorf my little man, the St. Paul boy is inviting you and I for appetizers and drinks, perhaps at Kieran's Pub in Minneapolis.
[sNIP]
[Drivel]
[sNIP]
So, Jefe, this would seem a good thing. After all, Peng, Elvis and Hiram periodically get together for a sing-song. I guess perhaps we should as well. I cannot do it this weekend, as I have committments because of St. Patrick's Day, but perhaps next weekend?
Well, if he wishes to bathe in the warm glow of my beauty and untamed manhood then so be it, for the better off he will be in the end.
Good thing I will be there, since your beaten and whipped hide could barely muster a glimmer of youth and pride in one's own stock, let alone the wash of Shandorf goodness that will encompass Deke, and thus make him fully aware of his own castrated manhood.
For I believe you both to be empty husks of loathing that at one time, maybe long ago, were called "men".
BTW Kieran's pub... Hmmm.. sounds familiar. Is that on the corner of 1st Avenue and 7th Str.?
Either way.. I am also occupied with St. Patrick's day festivities this weekend and thus can not attend any pool wallowing with lessers. But after this weekend I am free any day.
Jeff
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When nuclear weapons are frozen then only freezers will have nuclear weapons.
[This message has been edited by jshandorf (edited 03-14-2001).]
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PeterNZer!
I demand that you remove the comment as to such that you own my sig from YOUR sig!
At no time did we agree upon a Blood Hamster match, you spooner!
And even if we did have a Blood Hamster, our game has yet to be finished! So, in all possible cases you a deceiving sack-o-****e!
You dirty my name when you type it!
Jeff
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When nuclear weapons are frozen then only freezers will have nuclear weapons.
[This message has been edited by jshandorf (edited 03-14-2001).]
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But I want to discuss wether or not a Croda is gamey, and if so, under what conditions would a Croda not be gamey?
Just because I like to use SP251/1s to screen my Crodas since they are obviously more valuable, I just don't see how when I finally advance my Crodas that some would cry foul.
And if that is gamey then how do I safely advance my Crodas without them dying flaming deaths?
Jeff
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When nuclear weapons are frozen then only freezers will have nuclear weapons.
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Originally posted by DekeFentle:
Shandorf Are you listening? I find it hard to believe that a miscreant from the wrong side of the ’94 loop would pass up free drinks and grub. Then again it is undoubtedly difficult to decipher those bus schedules.
Excuse me Deke, did you invite me to something earlier?
I must have missed it since I usually (time strapped as I am) ignore posts from newbies such as yourself. That is until they have been around for a while.
Jeff
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When nuclear weapons are frozen then only freezers will have nuclear weapons.
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Originally posted by Hamsters:
Which Shandorf is Shandorf? Jefe?!?! Is this your cousin? JEFE?!?!?!
Meeks,
You have erased all doubt from my mind. You truly are stupid.
Thanks,
Jeff
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When nuclear weapons are frozen then only freezers will have nuclear weapons.
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Originally posted by Seanachai:
Here, Deke, ease up on the alliteration, you're making some of the people queasy.
Damn, you Seanachai!
I compared you to a bill faced, egg laying, waddling furball and you still refuse to "throw down" the gaunlet with me!
You, sir, are impossible!
Hrrrumphf!
Jeff
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Originally posted by bauhaus:
I have 13 if SOMEBODY ever gets me their setup.
Aye! Sod off! Meeks had to wait a week for his!
Jeff
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Originally posted by Mace:
You have a choice of:
Kangaroo,
Wallaby,
Koala,
Wombat,
Platypus,
Echidna,
Quoll,
Tasmanian Devil,
Numbat,
Possum, or
Bandicoot.
It's fine to stick your tongue into the mouth of any of these except the tasmanian devil, and please make sure in all cases that you don't get the ends confused!
Mace
Mace,
The platypus is not a marsupial. It happens to be the only mammal that lays eggs. Which also describes Seanachai.
You should quit getting your wildlife information from the Crocodile Hunter.
Jeff
"Blimey! He looks aaaaaaaaaaaaagitated!" -The Crocodile Hunter's last words.
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Originally posted by Sig:
Interesting reactions.
Am I totally wrong if I assume that in the case a TV company would present a gladiator show with real killing (gee, after all they have to earn their money and it's their own life.) some of you would find arguments to defend it?
As I said: interesting reactions.
Sig
I really don't think you want to go there, since I have a feeling alot of people have different attitudes to this then you, but then again if you like to argue, go right ahead.
Jeff
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Originally posted by Terence:
You speak the truth, Jeff.
I guess my point is this: Sending a unit out to draw fire (ie. drive around until something shoots at you, then hide if you are still alive ) with nothing more in mind for it than that is nearly the same as sending it out to die.
Expecting your units to draw fire as part of an plan, factoring in possible losses from that and and being able to deal with them flexibly is DIFFERENT than that.
Example 1: 10 halftracks loaded with troops race towards enemy positions behind a smoke screen as artillery rains down on enemy. The HTs are delivering troops and providing suppressive fire with their mgs. Tanks follow close behind providing overwatch. shooting at anything they see.
Example two. As most of the force hides behind hills and in trees, two halftracks zig zag in front of the enemy position, waiting for someone to shoot at them.
See the difference?
Completely.
The biggest problem with all this "gameyness" finger pointing is perspective.
For me "gameyness" in a lot of ways is like baldness. That is, it is hard to define exactly just when certain behavior becomes gamey just like it is almost impossible to define which "magic hair" a person looses before they become bald, but the fact is, when you see baldness you know it for what it is, just like gamey play.
Jeff
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When nuclear weapons are frozen then only freezers will have nuclear weapons.
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Originally posted by Croda:
Check out the SPW 251/1 thread to see Jeff pick fights with people for no apparent reason. It's quite funny.
Yes, like a ravenous, rabid dog on a bag of Alpo.
I just hate dim people. It's a wonder why I hang out here then...
Jeff
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When nuclear weapons are frozen then only freezers will have nuclear weapons.
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Originally posted by Terence:
Yeah? Take note that your point now has nothing to do with using HTs as bait for AT fire in an urban setting, which is what seemed to start this discussion several posts ago.
That is only because in the first post the guy said "draw AT fire". It is a completely valid and historical tactic to send units out to "draw" fire.
I just think most people interpreted this as sending out vehicles to die. On the contrary I stated otherwise.
Anytime you present your troops in the open, whether they are moving to and from cover, ot armored assets that are moving up in a support role they are gonna "draw fire". It may be MG fire, it might be mortar fire, it might be artillery fire, and yes folks, sometimes it's AT fire.
Jeff
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Originally posted by wwb_99:
For a true mechanized assault, don't just use one HT or a platoon of HTs, use a company or more on the advance. Even if an ATG does open up and plink one, 18-20 mgs will put that bad boy down in no time. And may god have mercy on the souls of any infantry which try to stand in their way. Also helpful to have Tanks/TDs/SPGs on overwatch.
WWB
My point exactly.
Jeff
Peng, Your Challenge Necessitates Gamey Manouvrouvrevoouvring!
in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)
Posted
Just be glad I don't vent my anger on you in our games, dweeb-boy.
BTW I sent the turn for our original BIG BATTLE but I have failed to get my first orders turn out in our NEW BIG BATTLE. BTW if anyone cares, which you probably don't but I could care less if you don't, we are playing a 7500 point battle. Just frickin' crazy assed if you ask me. I have never had so many King Tigers and JadgTigers. Heh.. Just kiddin' Croda. But I do have ALOT of tanks and it makes me feel goooood.
Jeff
[This message has been edited by jshandorf (edited 03-16-2001).]