Sublime

By word of mouth? You can hardly talk Love ya guys just joking

Actually yes thank you you I was aware of what BRIGHT LIGHT, LEAPING LENA, AND SHINING BRASS ARE. What tripped me up is in the transcript The 2nd LRRP team calls "Prairie fire! Prairie Fire!!" Almost like Col Moore calling Broken Arrow at the Ia Drang. (Though that always confused me too. I thought that meant a lost nuke) I did clarify later that SHINING BRASS just morphed it into it. I was aware of Igloo White before but had thought the program failed and the LRRPS were a whole diff shebang - not that they came about especially because Igloo White. Yes I got the same email. Only the subs or Ourang Ourang JK please or we.re gonna just trade insults.. Hey by the way reading one of the sites you sent - it talked about different ops they did for the LRRPs including " a large raid to attract NVA fighters to be destroyed by fighter bombers. Any info on that op? That sounds ridiculously hairy..

Yeah i had to give him an upvote for finding that

Thank you JK O/T but i have something you can look for for me if you want - and yes Im looking for conspiracy theories but nothing with aliens or psychics please- I just want plausible theores or evidence supportinv the idea K129 had gone rogue and was going to nuke America and or there was a mini underwater sub war in 68. Its interesting the Scorpion was lost in the Azores and Azorian waa to retrieve k129. Along with k129s supposed extra 15 men and being off station. This could all be total nonsense its all anecdotal except there was a k129 and project azorian.. Ourang ourang ill put up with too thoughta without hittibg my hot buttons? (Aliens, ufos, predator suits in Grenada)

And itll look back at you Yeah. It used to bother me thinking of what it musta been like on a U Boat or US sub or whatever and get stuck on the ocean floor and youre just.. Waiting for the air to go.

You mean you cant wait to have enjoyed the 60s like Emrys did

Then you know allll about it. Not much has changed youll be glad to know. Whats *really* cool is sometimes a weird random light will catch an old train car sidelined. Theres only a couple; there were 3 and they made on into a just sort of "look thru the fence" type exhibit of a 60s subway car from the outside. The ones just shunted off to some track for god knows what reason ir how long? Pretty cool. I suspect they may be used late nite just for t personnel needing to go work parts of the line. Not totally sure. The subway tunnels are cool to me. The paris catacombs and the tunnels under sevestapol? Kinda freak me out. Not like the beaten path. Im talking just the hundreds of miles of unexplored stuff like when that teenage girl went missing and it took them 3 months of driving robots around down there to find her collapsed body. All those pitch black empty endless tunnels. I cant imagine a scarier more disorienting experience to be deep in some tunnel half a mile under Sevastapol and lose all light.

Ive seen this before ripper. thanks The guys nuts his other vids are better. he sits on top of some skyscrapers with on protection legs dangling. He took that in cambridve at the central sq station. You can easily hope onto the tracks and run down when I was homeless like 15 years ago some homeless punk rocker kids who hung in harvard square invited me to their squat. their squat was a vintage 40s train station with booths and everything left like it had closed a few months before. absolutely pitch black but with flashlights - there was also a surprising amount of actual debris from that ti,e, period around - again probably because it was so dark. Basically it was crazy and I only stayed a few times - the last time I had to push into these little small cubby holes the subways have that are tiny to squeeze into for an emergency if a train comes. your safe but a subway train passing inches frm you and the vacuum actually noticeably pulling you out is enough to scare me away still theyd wait till almost the last train, when noone was around on the inbound platform at harvard square theyd jump onto the subway tracks and run down the tracks. after a few hundred feet the old traiin stations there. Therees a staggering amount of underground tunnels etc in Boston. NYC makes it look like small potatoes though - I recommend you look up the mole people of NYC edit in the pic of the vid you can see the cubbies i refer to. see the holes in the wall. thats so u can squeeze in and not get ran over. That tunnel if its the vid I think IIS NOT abanadoned. They often just move stops but use the same tracks. If you pay close enough attention and stare into blackness you occassionally will see a flash of an old disused train station just sitting underground sealed off like a time capsule. still remember being at the old harvard t office and finding tokens from the 40s, and literrally an old scrap of moldy newspaper from the early 50s

Since i cant get my damned f14 module.. Theres a sale for the il2 bos module i can snag it for 16 bucks. Of coyrse i just lost my job amd its prolly not too wise to be biying new games that aside can someone tell me if its good or if I sbould wait to get Bosenplatte or something and how it staxka to DCS

i know you jest but Id give up computers entirely if I knew it saved 1 million lives let alone 100

Oh I agree. I also laugh at the what ifs of Nazi victory. Its all there in Mein Kampf. Hitler would have had Germany in forever war - peace time would merely be strategic pauses. This meant for any nation including the US or USSR but let alone Germany failure was ineviteable. You cannot take the entire world over. Its never been done; dont think it ever will be. I had an excellent class on 20th century warfare and the teacher focussed in the Reichswehr and cheatinf Versailles. Hitler was explicitly warned especially in thw Rhineland that ANY French military response would be a total disaster. Its also come out that even a minor French military response probably would have led to a coup of Hitler.

Kettler thanks for the link thats actually a very good story. I also realized now I mistitled my post as prairie fire was a radio code apparently akin to broken arrow meaning a LRRP or SOG unit was in danger of being overrun. I wonder if Shining Brass is the same or was the ops names. I know Bright Light was a type of mission. Regardless a good read and yeah those guys probably saw some of the worst and ugliest combat of the war. And we'll never know 99.9% of those stories - ever. O/T a little but if you search in youtube "in a b52 over hanoi linebacker II" theres an audiotape of an entire linebacker mission with the crew intercom and radio chatter audible along with US losses. Theres anither on youtube where you hear a RF4 doing BDA get shotdown...

Well like common sense it may haps have not been that common. I wasnt alive then Westmoreland DID ask for nukes which is crazy.

Interesting thank you. However as you and Emrys pointed out by 1943 there was a tiny gap that wasnt covered by air, and we were producing so many liberty ships their chance was over. Off topic but Ive always wondered at the verscity of a claim I read once saying the Soviets extended peace feelers in spring 42 and the Nazis rejected them outright. Emrys, true the Allies however from what I understand already were pretty upset and worried about Germany - in fact as the historical narrative changes somewhat these days Chamberlin gets off lighter as buying time for Britain to rearm. Im not going to comment one way or another to be honest - I dont feel well read enough in extreme detail about Chamberlins efforts to conclude wheter or not he got a bad rap as an opinion. JK - thanks for the wishes. Yes its an utter disaster and Ill tell ya if you really want to feel even lower than you ever already did just lose a job with a kid and know deep down that without friends and families help right now Id be totally F'd

Im not arguing the battle of the Atlantic was doomed from the start unless all those shiny pocket battleships and the Graf Spee had been turned into another thousand uboats and I still doubt it. I still also believe the Nazis defonitely would have lost anyways but realizing enigma was cracked and changing everything could have drastically changed how the war played out and Im shocked it didnt occur to Donitz as he was so close, it seems, in hindsight at least.

No you werent blocked JK thank you I have some IRL employment issues that have caused me a lot of problems is all.

that books a masterpiece Working Class War by Appy is non fiction but a bunch of anecdotes from Vietnam with lots of stuff Ive never seen anywhere else. That was really good too. My professor at UMass Boston recommended that. I also remember when I took my class in UMass Boston on the Vietnam War Professor Hunt (who wrote a pretty dry but exhaustive and good book on the NLF based on Rand Company reports) brought in a former student who had been a Marine at Hue. The guy didnt go into personal detail much but he did mention being a combat grunt in Hue, and then mentioned when they attacked across the Perfume River they had to cross a bridge and it was covered in blood of dead and wounded grunts, and everyone was slipping and falling as they desperately ran across. He kind of got a faraway look in his eyes, trailed off with that and changed the subject. In fact he pretty studiously avoided any more mention of combat at all and went on to purely discuss some political things (like it being revealed the Chinese had a Korean War esque agreement with N Vietnam to intervene on the ground if the US invaded - so the people saying we should have invaded are insane, it would have been another disaster)

Fair enough - though what about Donitz in '43? He ordered a fourth rotor installed, and had visible results too. I dont see how he could have ignored this cause and effect as it seems he did..? The rest yes, as I said especially Churchill was very very careful to make sure that planes or ships 'happened upon' enemy convoys. Thanks though Wicky as usual your post was good $hit

Anyone played it? Im drooling. Csnt believe my bad luck lately - I almost owned this and finally updated my CMs ro 4.0 with bday money and I lose my job over nothing tuesday. Im furious. I cant find a damn online game (another insult. I never got MP to work until 2 months ago) that wasnt all F14s. Ugh...

Thank you. My best Vietnam books are novels writtwn by vers that are really disguised autobiographies Matterhorn is my favorite. Closer Quarters by Heinemann was good 13the Valley by Delvecchio I loved Fields of Fire by James Webb was great Best DBP book I ever read was widrows The Last Valley. The Good German was a great book IMO. For time travelling time and again and time and time were my favs also kings 11/22/63 I could go on endlessly

What are your thoughts on my condemnation of Donitz?

Id buy it BUT- I cant resist I think if so he demand (and would eventually receive) command of a battlegroup crowned with same Yamato. Then he leads a suicide charge and goes down with the ship. I think culturally and given his backround that'd be his method, if not outright seppuku. Also if so - he was very high ranking - easily he could have excused the other 'betty' bombers and claimed they needed to save fuel - thereby making him the ONLY target, not 1 of 4 (or was it 3?) It has an allure but I feel he was too professional and too patriotic. Just like some of Hitlers generals who loathed the man they couldnt bear to not participate in a war for national survival even if for an evil regime and I feel he would have prosecuted the war for Japanese gain to his dying breath - those men very much meant their oaths, as it should be. (not that I condone the IJA/IJN or Third Reich, I just mean honor has become cheap)

Yes. Churchill was brilliant in ensuring that even at the cost of lives the made sure a allied convoy or plane would 'happen' upon the DAKs resupply convoys etc. However, and yes hindsight is 20-20, I still think Donitz's error of not realizing the truth by 43 (Admittedly too llate but if he persuaded the entire Heer to change everything it may have really extended the war) is nigh unforgiveable. He added a fourth rotor and voila! shipping sinkings rise dramatically and losses drop dramatically. For a small period in 43 until the extra 'bombes' (super comps to break enigma) got the 4th rotor. Interestingly we were much more careless about potentially exposing our intelligence coup in the PTO - you'd think the Japanese would have been sure that Yamamato's death was basically an aerial hit.. IMO at least. Thoughts?

Unfortunately youre all to right. And much of its going to simply be lost forever. It reminds me of reading how a German archivist found Kaiser era German invasion plans for the US - from 1906. They planned to land at Cape Cod, move on Boston, lay siege and hopefully conquer it. Then the main drive would seize or shell at least NYC and hold this region hostage for American concessions for colonies, terrritories, etc. Even then they expected a 26 day (!!) trip and planned a decisive naval victory (which they deemed necessary) with the USN before the landing. And they noted this was all impossible unless Europe was totally secure or at peace. Of course this was all silliness - it would have been a disaster. But its interesting Thanks for your help Emrys. Yeah its a shame so much will be lost - again reading the article about that 3 man Shining Brass team and them only finding their remains around 2011 - and the subsequent accounts of their demise... Rough way to go, must have felt very very lonely and far away from everything you knew. Balls of steel on those men. And yeah also on WW2- I always have to remind myself watching my fav WW2 documentary - the world at war bbc - that the enigma secret wasnt declassified yet

Im rereading Deightons excellent novel ' Winter ' about 2 German brothers and their lives through children pre WW1 - WW1 - then one goes to America, the other ends up in the NSDAP... I also found an old copy of a good novel I read once ages ago called Hell at the Breech. Very good novel about the south post civil war and some kids who get involved in a little crime thing.