Andreas

Not quite, the correct line is: if a tree falls onto a T-26 in deep fog at night time and no-one is nearby, it is impossible to tell whether it is KO'd or abandoned. BTW - is that an African or a European T-26?

I have now received back the set-up from Mr.Blue. To flummox him, I shall employ Maskirovka and not return it until Sunday evening - mwhahahahaharrr, cough, errrmmm BTW - this battle will be over very quick. [starts singing] Arise ye workers from your slumbers Arise ye prisoners of want For reason in revolt now thunders And at last ends the age of cant. Away with all your superstitions Servile masses arise, arise We'll change henceforth the old tradition And spurn the dust to win the prize. So comrades, come rally And the last fight let us face The Internationale unites the human race. So comrades, come rally And the last fight let us face The Internationale unites the human race No more deluded by reaction On tyrants only we'll make war The soldiers too will take strike action They'll break ranks and fight no more And if those cannibals keep trying To sacrifice us to their pride They soon shall hear the bullets flying We'll shoot the generals on our own side. No saviour from on high delivers No faith have we in prince or peer Our own right hand the chains must shiver Chains of hatred, greed and fear E'er the thieves will out with their booty And give to all a happier lot. Each at the forge must do their duty And we'll strike while the iron is hot.

Please report to GULAG Camp 15473 for a spot of re-education Comrade. Great work Grisha!

I feel I must also defend the southern 'honour' *cough* *splutter* of Holien. He is a right old gent, and can't get enough of buying me beer. Lots of it. Right on, I says.

Dear Mr. Blue, it has come to our attention that you would not be entirely unhappy if a certain Mrs. Madonna, living in London, sat on a specious bodypart of yours. It is our deep-seated conviction that this desire of yours just won't do. Please find hencewith a setup in your inbox which will deliver the requisite amounts of wanton death in destruction to your Fascist Invading Scumbags™ to make you think twice before you feel another stirring coming on. My Kommissar has a red-hot poker for you, and if the words 'Eddy Longshank's daughter in law' mean anything to you, you should be scared. Very scared. We shall not rest nor do any other stuff until we have driven your besmirchers of the Rodina before us, and have heard the corresponding lamentation of der women. With the best regards from South-East London. Good-day Sir, and be damned. Mr. Brown

BFC have explained that elsewhere - it really does not appear to be their fault, they seem to try hard to rectify it, and a little bit of research would have shown anyone it is not the US version that showed up on those shelves or mail-order catalogues/websites. Caveat emptor.

The only use of a captured tank by the Allies that I know of is Oddball's Tiger. I'm not sure what it was designated. I have seen pictures of americans using captured 251 halftracks though. Aaron </font>

Not a lot, I would think, judging by Steve's comments on how they select vehicles for model updates in patches.

I have not been able to give this thread the attention it deserves. I would just like to point out that it is hardly surprising to me that the artillery unit with the less accurate maps is less desired as fire support. Since the Finnish artillery maps were not made available to the Germans, comparing the two is a bit like asking two athletes to do a 100m sprint to find out who is faster, and could one of them please carry a chest of drawers along.

Those tanks may have been T60s - ISTR that they were last used in significant numbers in the Winter 1943/4 Leningrad offensive. Quite late, considering they had been off the TO&E from about August 1942.

He probably means a regiment that was not encircled? There is an interesting book out on the division check it out on www.laapinghorseman.com

You must be mishtaking me for Holien. I would consider not drawing me in the first round a pitfall, myself.

So, what's your problem? Do you think it should be impossible for the Dshk to take out the Panzer IVD? I would say it should be pretty damn unlikely - which it appears to be under combat conditions according to what you are saying. The IVD has just 20mm armour on the sides, at 0°. I find it quite plausible to think that a heavy MG can penetrate this. If you are unlucky enough after that, it will cause crew casualties.

The entire point of a "soft attack" tank is to withstand and destroy small-arms/MG fire elements. </font>

Comrade Picketsky would like to argue that most people west of Berlin still don't realise this.

Yeah why not. If Germans are allowed to play. I just hope I won't do a re-run of the Falaise Gap. Hmm, if there are so many of you southern types, how about showing up for beers sometime?

Aaron, I meant 'in every way', which is what you said. One advantage I forgot was mobility. The sPzB41 weighed 229kg (standard) or 114kg (airborne version) vs 986kg for the PAK38. Most importantly about the gun - they continued producing it through 1943 (by which time it was probably way past its sell-by date). First combat use according to my source was the east (178 guns and 532,700 rounds ammo), and by the end of the war there were still 775 guns with the troops and 68 in depots. Surprising longevity. Edit: reason you probably don't know about the site is that it is in German John, I am a bit flummoxed by it. Probably a mistake, or reference to a design model. [ February 13, 2003, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Andreas ]

Is that a european or an african angle?

Aaron, unfortunately your post is quite incorrect in a number of points. The following data from www.lexikonderwehrmacht.de: sPzB41 (taper-bore 28/20mm) tungsten-core ammo using ATR Production: 1940 94 1941 349 1942 1030 1943 1324 Ammunition production (AT) in thousands: 1940 156.2 1941 889.5 1942 270.0 1943 287.1 Ammunition production (HE) in thousands: 1940 0 1941 9.2 1942 373.3 1943 130.1 I am not quite clear from the way the info is written whether the sPzB41 could fire the ammunition of the PzB38, in which case it would have a lot more ammo available: Production of Patr 318: 1939 780,0 1940 1864,1 1941 4726,9 1942 2046,4 Both the PSW221 and the SPW250/11 which are armed with the sPzB41 are in the game. Shortage of Tungsten became a problem in 1942. The following info from v.Senger und Etterlin: Introduced in 1941 with the infantry and pioneer battalions. Also on PSW222 and l.SPW 250/11 Platoons and Trupps with three guns each. At the time of introduction very good (ausgezeichnete) weapon with good penetrating capabilities and high ROF. High wear of conical barrel. Life of barrel 500 rounds. I have a TO&E of 7.PD for December 1942 in which the AT platoons of the PzGren Rgts have sPzB instead of other ATGs. Finally, the idea that the PAK38 is better in any respect is quite simply not so. The sPzB41 is much easier to conceal, and in all likelyhood beats the PAK38 in ROF hands-down. The penetration of PAK38 is a quite a bit better (12mm more at 500m @ 90°; 9mm more at 457m @ 60°), and the HE load of the rounds is better.

Because 'the game' is not just dealing with quick battles, no matter how much you maybe focused on them? Apart from that I (and apparently many others) don't have problems using on-board mortars in indirect fire mode. May I suggest brushing up on CMBB combat tactics if you do have problems?

I think this holds mainly true for smaller calibres and mortars, and is already in the game.

Just a note - the German Kartographieinsttitute were part of the General Staff until 1918, i.e. cartography in Germany was a military undertaking, serving military needs. The basis for the survey was done by 1910, and corrected regularly thereafter. Following the 1st WW the responsibility went over to the federal states, where it still resides today. To say that the German troops used Michelin when abroad is only part of the truth. These would have been useless for firing based on the map. More important were either surveys undertaken on the hoof by the Kartographiebatterien, Astro-Batterien, both a branch of the artillery as the name indicates (this was rare) or the use of captured military maps of the enemy, which were then reprinted and overprinted with German and additional indications. Cartograhical units were present down to division level in some cases. As Steve says, to think that the Germans were worse at this then the Finns is just a ludicrous statement. I would like to see the super-douper detailed all-singing all dancing minutely accurate Finnish map of the approaches to the Caucasus please, to have some proof of that statement. A question - since the Finns were so great with their maps, did they actually share them with the German artillery units in Finnland? Another question - how good were the Finns at counter-battery, especially in northern Finland? Thanks to Joerg Wurdack of http://forum.panzerlexikon.de for this information. Any errors made in translating it and putting it up here are mine. [ February 11, 2003, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: Andreas ]

What I would like to see are map labels that can only be read by one side. Would make the whole briefing/map much more interactive.

Would be a bit too much [iF] [THEN]/[AND] in there for my liking, considering you are chucking TNT about in close proximity to your Kameraden. But maybe I am just not Finnish enough? Let's not even start on the availability of accurate 1:20k maps in Russia, shall we? When 12.PD advanced towards Tikhvin in late 1941, they came across a railway line (!) that was not on their maps, which they no doubt found slightly disconcerting, and worth mentioning in the divisional history. [ February 10, 2003, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: Andreas ]

Can we just agree that it boils down to: a) having a phone line the 1943 handbook being correct c) the practice being implemented in all of the Wehrmacht, not just the funny bits hanging about in Finland? Also, at the moment you can make an HQ your observation team, and you do get the same effect, albeit not at the 200m distance (no idea what the maximum would be if you have a command range bonus - 50m?). What you describe has zero to do with topographical preparations, since it is observed fire, directed by Mk.I eyeball. Which is not what was being talked about. Completely different issue. You don't even need a map for this. US.