ARCHANGEL

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *Captain Foobar*: Whoa thats interesting, I'm planning a France vacation later this year. My wife wants to go to Paris, but you all know why I agreed to go..( hehe hiking through the bocage playing army man, I hope to make it to Bastogne!) I would love to her from the assembled sages, WHAT'S the best way to see european theatre battlefields?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> FOO, I went to school (for a while) in Eurpoe as well as being stationed there after I got back from RVN. As a schoolboy we were taken to several battlefields. As an adult and soldier, I went to most of them as part of my "continuing military education" I did "terrain walks"(remember, the Cold War was afoot then and we were expecting to fight the Reds over the same terrain.) Anyway, what I did was get the WEST POINT ATLAS OF AMERICAN WARS, which was in two volumes at that time but is in several now I believe. I made some copies of the maps but took the books in the car with me. I started in Normandy and just went where I could when I could during my tour in USAEUR. I managed to go as far as Sicily. I also took in acient battlefields and the battlefields of the First World War...I understand that now there are musuems at many more places than there were in 1974. I would make a check on Amazon, I seem to recall a GUIDE TO EUROPEAN BATTLEFIELDS for sale there. If your time is limited and you are brining a family, I would suggest Normandy (Omaha Beach particulary) and the German defenses in what is Eastern France are (or were ) still there, IF you think VOT is tough, I saw valleys where EVERY pillbox was mutually supporting of every other one, and fields of fire that were a gunners dream. The difference is, today they are caved in, but you can still tell how serious a busines it was. After Normandy is the Bocage. Another place that will give you nightmares. If you can, move East.. go to Holland, Hell's Highway from SON to Arnhem, if memory serves, there is a wonderful Airborne oriented museum at Nijmagen (sp) and the Dutch are wonderful people. Bastogne goes without saying...being an airborne vet and having met lots of the 82/101 vets at re-unions, it was especially gratifying to cover all thier tracks. I was lucky to run into American airborne vets at each place I went also...it was like divine intervention...one guy I met in St-Mere-Eglise took me thru the whole fight as he had been a part of it as a Corp. in the 505th, including he cellar doorway where he was when he got hit by a round from an MG42. He was back in time to jump into Holland tho...anyway...those are my personal suggestions...I hope you enjoy your trip...

TD, The first time I played VOT, I shelled the objective hill just above and behind Plomville because even tho on turn one I hadn't seen any enemy activity, I KNEW that it must have great LOS. The same goes for the hill on which the US FO's hide. You, and presumably the AI, can spot the high ground and take for granted SOMETHING will be up there, FO's, mortars, tanks in a fire support role, HMG's, anything that might impede your progress or ability to fight regardless of which side you are running at the time. Keep them on the reverse slope until you plan to use them, or use them right away; the 81mm can put out smoke on the most likely German gun positions by turn two. [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 05-31-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by guachi: I saw a movie a few months ago called "Go For Broke" about the 442nd. It was made in the early Fifties and I was amazed at its anti-racist tone. I would ahve expected this kind of movie in the sixties, but not in the Fifties before the Civil Rights movement began in earnest. The movie actually wasn'y half bad, really. Jason<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Jason, There were several movies from the late 40's and the 50's that had anti-racial or anti-anti themes. The sixties was the culmination of the movements, not the beginning of them. Some of these movies were military oriented but most were not...but they were hard hitting on the issues of racism, anti-semitism, anti-catholic, etc.etc.etc.

In it's original time Combat had competition in a program called THE GALLANT MEN, which was on another network...both were shakey on realism but entertaining for kids, of which I was one (tho aging) at the time. Everyone would watch these shows then act out the themes when next they played "war"...I recall many an arguement over who got to be SGT. SAUNDERS or CPL. CAGE, etc. (sigh! AH! The passage of time...!)

I now have a modicum of sympathy for drug addicts...a day without the site was a almost unbearable....

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Speedy: They will have to have airstrips by CM3, how else can we recreate the LRDG and SAS raids.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not to mention JEDBURG Teams in France, Holland, etc.

Moiety, On the left flank I run them until they are in the woods (not too far to run) and move them carefully after that, always using "hide" and only employing them when they are most needed in a flanking movement...(I also send a schrek along) On the right side, I move them from the position that the AI sets to the extreme right side, then "move" or "run" as the situ dictates. They are usually near the top of the hill before they get spotted but even if they are spotted, they usually don't have too much to contend with...the bazooka team is generally slower (understandably) and "weary" regardless of which movements commands are used. In the meantime, if your 75 is positioned appropriately, use either HE on that hill top or smoke to minimize the damage until the assault platoon gets to the crest. You 81mm's can also put a little smoke up there then hide. I keep the 150mm on the left flank in the trees and also on "hide" until the US is well up the valley, then open up with a 150mm surprise. "DEFENSE" needn't be passive.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tom w: Hi Of course I'm curious to know how you survived such intense arty? If the American player directs the arty wisely how could you manage to hang on until the panther arrived? It is interesting to see a German victory in this scenario. -tom w Tom W, Another way to mitigate the arty is to attack the hill on which the first two FO's are located. I have sent a German platoon around the right flank several times and they always make it to the top of the hill and kill or panic the FO's...takes a few turns, but it isn't hard to do and they seldom meet much resistance. You can do a similar movement on the left flank thru the woods...even outnumbered the attacking Germans usually either surprise the US or tie down large numbers of them. [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 05-25-2000).]

I was wondering the same thing. I tried VOT at US +150 just to see how many tanks I would get. But by turn 10 or 12 the fight was just about over and the AI hung on, lightly 'till the Panther showed up.

Old Town, Alexandria

Although I am not quite as bad as you lads, I have deleted two other forums and check THIS one WAAAYYYYY toooooo often each day. That doesn't count em between several pals on here... And to think, the FINAL CM isn't even here yet.... I think we need a twelve step program.... [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 05-23-2000).]

I agree with old BH as well. He hit the nail right on the head.

I would choose "A". Regarding defending troops, they have something of an advantage anyway, so I don't see why they necessarily need anything beyond the default reinforcements. The scen is winnable from the German side with what it has.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lobo: I advanced a few infantry teams up that small bowl shaped valley on the left (US left). My flamethrower was with them. While they suppressed 2 German squads in some woods, my flamethrower was able to get within range. Well, almost. I knew they were going to get shot so I had them flame the woods directly in front of the Germans. After the 3rd squirt, the woods caught fire. It was great, the Germans turn and ran !! No one dead, but it allowed me to advance.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Lobo, That is a good use of the asset. I will have to try that...thanks!

I have tried like hell to get the flamethrower in position to kill ANYTHING...even grass, but so far I have never had one make it past the "T" road in VOT. I did get one actually ON the road and within about 100 feet (+/-) a German position, but he was smoked (no pun intended) by the guys he was going after (understandably, they didn't want to become crispy critters)..The rifle squad supporting him got the Germans, but too late for MR. ZIPPO.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Stone: Hey Tom, After thinking about it... Wouldn't WW2 Americans yell: "Corpman!!" Just a thought... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> "Corpsman" was for MARINE CORPS and NAVY medics...in ther Army they are called MEDIC'S...then and now.

Hey TP-Bomber, Regarding the 150mm...I have been putting it in the trees at the extreme left flank of the German lines and giving it the HIDE command...usually it actually DOES hide...I don't use it until the assaulting forces are 1) at the left gully where the small flag is located, 2) moving on the village on the right side of the road (little hill top)or 3) tanks are exposed...I have had it survive every time that I employed it this way...I don't fire until it is absolutely necessary... No doubt there are many other options, this is one I use since the first time I lost the 150mm...

Stoner & Steve, I lost an entire German Infantry platoon to that sort of fire. I was sending them around the left flank of VOT. They were already in the woods and behind the US attackers I was getting them ready for a flank attack (which had always worked before)...the Germans were "hiding"...all of a sudden the sky fell....like you said Steve, a variety of differing shell bursts...looked like airbursts amongst them as well...in the first turn about half were killed... during the second turn the remainder were wiped out, save one lonely private who ultimately ran for the rear...I don't think he stopped until he was in Berlin.

Steve, The quality varied. Sometimes you got the hell shot outta you, sometimes they were off (luckily). As I said, I wasn't thinking about multiple FO's putting fire on one target.

Renaud, Donuts?? LOLOL That's wonderful!!

F, I really appreciate the unexpected support. Actually, you hit the nail right on the head regarding the power of arty. I didn't consider it in the context of OTHER scens...that was/is probably a mistake...so I will happily take your advice and await more fire missions before I draw any conclusions. And Stone WAS talking about several FO's targeting him....THAT makes a huge difference too. Thanks Again...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rune: Mark this as a you can't please everyone. An Arty officer worked with BTS on the model for shells. this officer has been on both the giving as well as receiving end. I will let him mention his name if he so chooses. I personally don't have a problem with Arty. Rune <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Rune, Yup! You are probably right, can't please everyone, even amongst those of us who did it for real, opinions will vary...that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the game... [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 05-17-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SS_PanzerLeader: So whatexactly is so unrealistic about that Archangel? Are you saying they all should've been dead or they all shouldve been unscathed? Seems to me they took a good pounding and then finally routed whats your beef ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't really have a beef I had a comment...we went from ineffective and ineffectual arty to the most asskicking arty in history. Having been attacked by arty, mortars and rockets of all sizes on a regular basis in the real world, I think this modelling is about 25% over-done. These are 105mm...not 155, not 175, not eight inch or naval guns. They are better than the beta, by far. Does that matter?? NO! It doesn't really. It is just a professional opinion...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Black Sabot: It is a beautiful thing, isn't it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Beautiful, yes!! Accurate?? Not quite, but much improved over the beta.

Weaver has it nailed. My engineers in VOT have taken out several bunkers, both wooden and concrete, with satchel charges. They also cleared some mines that way. The rifle squads will use grenades. I have used Infantry squads to clean out the 75 mm AT bunker and to get that 150MM gun...like Weaver said, smoke, then advance right up...actually, the 150mm crew boogies when my rilfemen get close. If you still have the old beta, you can attack the 88mm's the same way...with an old fashioned fire and maneuver assault. Rifle grenades just extended the range of a small charge (like a hand grenade), but a few yeards...they were used in a variety of ways, but anti-tank would have been unusual...and unlikely to be useful, except to piss off the tank crew by making a small explosinon outside.