ARCHANGEL

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Havermeyer: I would have used the 12 105 FOs and leveled Singling. I'm vindictive about this scenario. I did have the most success in Singling hitting the right flank-- BUT THE MUD knocked out **6**!! And then those other buggers showed up on the right... You are an honorable gentleman to explore the effect of mud on tracked vehicles in CM. I will horde this knowledge accordingly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ACtually, I DID consider using all the FO's that way...but the three I did have and did use didn't level one structure in the whole dammed town. And all three had 25 rounds and all three were used till empty or down to one round. OTOH, with so many tanks I used several as arty and knocked down 17 buildings in the town as I progressed...about half were small, half were large and sturdy...and three others just were set alight...so SINGLING was reduced significantly for all the trouble it casued. Actually, once I got my M60A1 caught in mud and was (most embarassingly) towed out by a VTR (M88) and had to buy beer for all involved after my folly ...I also got an M113 APC stuck in mud once and IT had to be retrieved by a "cherry picker". Thus, I know mud first hand and HATE it passionately. (And that isn't counting all the mud I encountered as an Infantryman in RVN) SOOOO...I am glad to help....

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by demoss: You go on to describe the dramatic differences between FAST MOVE and MOVE, but did you try the experiment with HUNT? I'd be very curious to know whether it falls closer to MOVE or FAST MOVE in bog danger (I'm guessing the former based on very limited experience). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry...I found HUNT to work pretty well, but remember that one has to move quite a way before actual contact is made (for the bulk of the tanks) so I didnt much use HUNT in this experiment until they were on the right side road moving toward the town center and on the right-center road moving thru the small buildings routing out German Security squads...SOOOOO...the approach to areas where HUNT was viable was made using MOVE for 95% of the tanks. The left center road was both MOVE and HUNT, as necessary... HUNT worked sufficiently but was not used enough to made a sound judgement about it...

To add on to what has been said in the other thread... For both fun and experimentation, I played Singling with US 150%...I did this twice to (mostly) determine the bogged and immobile situation which had caused me, amongst others, so much frustration, as well as to see if I could find a way to avoid it... I SORT of did... I have a habit of moving tanks either on FAST MOVE or HUNT...At the beginning of game one of this experiment, I had 32 Shermans. They were located as you would expect. The extra's could be "placed" the original set up was padlocked, including the infantry...which didnt increase. Anyway...I sent lots of tanks off to the right (as I stated previously in the other thread, that is what I beleive to be the best way to attack this objective, beginning on the right flank) and I sent several off to the left to that little road...all went sent on FAST MOVE....of the twenty odd that were given orders to move...13 became bogged...THIRTEEN !!! Two became un-bogged in turn three... three were "immobile" and stayed that way for the whole game. I lost one Sherman to that dammed Stug that sits in the town square...(I was, yet again, AMAZED at how miniscule his LOS actually was.) I also lot TWO Shermans to that dammed gun in front of the wooden mg bunker on the left. The bunker was smacked down in turn two but the gun wasn't...it shot and destroyed two Shermans that were over by the wheat field in the center-right of the screen. Once again a narrow but useful los....663 meters to be exact. In the second game I did the same thing...kept re-setting the 150% until I got the same mix...(the mix varied...including 12 105 spotters...which was tempting but I was, after all, on serious business here... . This time I made the same dispostions but sent them out on MOVE. Plain old everyday MOVE. IT WORKED MUCH BETTER than did Fast Move. Two ultimately became IMMOBILE and stayed that way...two became bogged and one of them got unstuck...I was watching it get stuck (it sunk into the ground a bit) and un-stuck...(it moved higher on the ground and drove away) Later, when the reinforcements showed up, I sent them (not really needing nine more tanks) to the right side on FAST MOVE....(five of them anyway)...FOUR got stuck...bogged...!!! Interestingly enough, I had one tank bog right next to a building...so the "wet" is universial...and still is a universal pain-in-the-ass. What made me think of this change was having spent a year as an Infantryman assigned to a Tank company (M60A1's) after Vietnam...(where I began my education in MUD!!) This Armor assignment was in Germany in the mid-seventies...Grafenwher (yes, there is a scen entitled that too!!!) was where mud was taken to new levels of yuckiness. I learned that mud (and snow and ice too) can not only immobilize a tank, it can also make it move places that the TC wishes it wouldn't go in ways he finds un-plesant. I did remember that mud would clog our wheels and tracks and that going fast seemed to make it worse and get you stuck faster...or you could easily sink in this mire...I also learned that driving several vehicles over the same churned-up earth would make the latter ones get stuck...so in CM I sent every one on a different path...it mostly worked, as did the slower speed....one they reached the roads I resumed FAST MOVE.... So...there you have it, Lads, at least a partial, part time solution to the bog problem in Slingling... I hope it is found to be useful. [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 07-13-2000).] [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 07-13-2000).]

I fought it roughly the same way (or so it seems) that HOOSIER TREAD HEAD did. Tanks and infantry up the right side and converging on the two rows of small buildings there. The Security squads were destroyed or run off. I DID have major bog problems but usually, after a few turns, the tanks were able to extricate themselves. Meanwhile they could still fire on the right side of things and were clear of most harm. When they get free I send them up and/or paralell to the road, with the infantry clearing each and every structure until they meet up with infantry and tanks coming in the road/row of small buildings in the center/right of the map...tho caution is totally necessary there because the bunkered 75mm has some damn good killing opportunites thru the very limited LOS it has there. I also sent a tank and a squad up the road on the left center and got creamed badly by the hidden gun on the left side...the wooden bunker wasn't a happy surprise either. Anyway, the two forces (right and center/right) converged and the bunkered 75mm was taken out by a rifle squad...the gun behind that was taken out by a tank which was on the right flank of that advance just as security...later he took out three more German tanks that popped up in the right corner and would have been in a great position to come up behind everyone if the AO wasn't covered. (It was a hell of a good fight too...at less than 100 meters this Sherman kicked ass ...I replayed it several times, hooting and hollering and planning to send the TC and crew home for an MOH (TC) and DSC (crew) not to mention a war bond tour with Betty Grable.) When the reinforcements arrived I sent them to the left (from the starting point) to get that errant gun and bunker/mg...they all got bogged but managed to kill the bunker/mg, gun and a few more German tanks that showed up over there... I had lots of losses but I eeked out a victory. I played it again with ALLIES at 25% more, which ,IMO is more appropriate...even if the scen is historically based. Hell of a fight tho...hell of a fight...with or without extra troops.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Londoner: i'm just finishin this op for the first time. As the Germans i found i had to counter-attack every battle othterwise i would be forced back to the bridge. I'm on battle 6-7 and still hold the town. It gets annoyin having to retake it every battle. Is there a more accurate way to model gained/lost ground?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> THAT is exactly the point, Lad...if you don't lose the town or any of the bridges, why the hell do you keep being pulled back after each battle??? Maybe someone can locate the designer...he might know... I just bagged it...if I not losing against the AI's normal array of tricks, then the dammed AI oughtn't to remove me between battles...

I also squeaked out a victory as the US. It wasn't easy tho...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by demoss: This is probably a realism issue. What a lot of games don't tell you is that it takes some serious guts to get up and fire that panzerfaust - I don't believe they can be fired from a prone position, and off to Valhalla with you if you miss at those ranges.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You think so??? Hmmm! I really don't know...I HAVE fired all the post-1960's AT weapons, including under fire, but the prone bit is a good point. In one case I sent them running thru a building to hit a Sherman with its ass to them...they got within six meters and sat down...a few moves later the Sherman moved off...I doubt it was the building since the two Shermans killed by Pioneers were destroyed by squads IN buildings...one was on a top floor firing down...(I replayed it...it was seriously cool)...the other was firing slightly up hill at a range of about 12 meters. The aforementioned infantry squad(s) not firing was irritaing since I went thru actual "tactical ballet" with shot up resources to distract the Shermans while the attacking squads got into position... I wonder if six meters is too close for the PzF to arm??? (I cannot recall...and my experience included good old comime RPG's, which are based on the PzF....) Appreciate your comments... [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 07-13-2000).]

SPOILER...SPLOIER....SPOILER....SPOILER... SLINGLING/CHENAUX/HAN&JAM/CAMBES HAD TO PLAY AGAIN, HUH Wild Bill?? Well, my two absolute favorites are the tiny ones...SAINT ANNE'S CHAPPLE and SMALL GAIN. Both are fabulous.I have done them both several times, swapping sides... WILTZ was a very challanging and seriously gratifying fight to win...(played as US and won a major victory) SINGLING SHOOTOUT was frustrating as hell...all that mud and the perfect "narrow los" ambushes...but I managed to prevail (US) even with most of my armor stuck in the mud at various times. HAM& JAM...I won the scen but lost 47 guys to that bunker because I had placed them in front of it before it showed up...I expected there to be bunkers so it was stupid to put them there. IT was still a wonderfully tactically challanging scen. So was RED DEVILS. NIGHT AT CHENEUX was also great...all the Germans along the right side of the road caused me some delay, but I had a very good assault force along the left side of the map so we managed to flank them all nicely. The tracks that are near the left side hedges were an unplesant surprise... I just did FIRST CLASH AT CAMBES yesterday and will do it again soon..Played as the Germans...I was frustrated as hell by my infantry squads NOT firing PZF's when instructed...I kept placing them nearly on top of the British tanks...30 meters, 22 meters, 6 meters they might as well have thrown water ballons at the British...NONE were effective and the Shermans moved with impunity thru the town, blasting away...I lost all my tanks and guns (save the flak guns) in the first six turns...(hell of a fight)...the Pioneers took out two Shermans with PZF's tho...(glad someone on the screen was using them cuz the infantry never did)...Brits won a tactical victory. It was fun seeing the fighter/bomber destroy two tanks that were already knocked out by the Shermans...(typical Air Force... ) It was also fun seeing the two flak guns shoot at the fighter/bomber... Stiil though, ST ANNE's and SMALL GAIN are the best at testing deployments and plain old tactical skill...(IMO) [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 07-13-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pwtcowboy: Def Bungis: I don't think I'd have had quite as hard a time of it if I hadn't, during the setup phase, placed so darn many units within 50 meters of the front facing of that machinegun bunker. That's really where I got my butt handed to me. I used the reinforcements to shore up defense of the bridge closest to the town, and sent the forces that had been at that bridge on into the city to help hold it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm with you cowboy. During set-up I put nealy two assault platoons in front of where the bunker appeared later. He didn't need to do ANYTHING but pull the trigger...there were little dead bodies everywhere...dumb assed thing to do...I knew better but didn't set up appropriately...DUH! Still won, but at a higher than usual price.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oldgamer: Spoiler . . . . . . . . I played this through as the Germans, and saw similar line adjustments, except I held both bridges throughout. On the last battle I was even given back about 50 meters, for no apparent reason (I had not attacked in the previous combat). I enjoyed the fight, but was unimpressed with the AI's ability to attempt a real drive on the bridges. It would attempt attacks down tree lines, both near the bridges and mid-map, but I never got the feeling that it ever knew where it really wanted to go. The tacAI still made many of the combats exciting on the local level though, as you’d expect with any CM combat. I agree strongly though with the original point – on the first battle I easily defended St. Come Du Mont, but was then pushed back to much less favorable ground for the next battle. Most disappointing was achieving about a 4 to 1 casualty ratio against the allies, holding both bridges, and ending with a minor allied victory. I too was very careful about watching the entire line, and am quite sure that there were no infiltrations.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> GOOD!! I thought the AI was just screwing with me!!! It made me give up ground that I had not yet lost and wasn't likely to lose...if it hadn't, I'd still be holding the first map...something amiss here...!!! Thanks... [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 07-11-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Clinton: Boy, I am clueless. I just finished that one and I save after every turn (anyone that owns a PC should do this IMO). Never had a problem. Dumb question: You reloaded from the "Operations Screen" and not the "Battle Screen", right? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Scott, Actually, my pal BULLETHEAD solved this one for me. I was one the second set of the nine battle Carentan operation... At the conclusion I got a score screen that read like the fight was over...IT WAS OVER !!!! I had managed to beat the Krauts so badly they didn't have enough guys to continue the fight...like I told Bullethead...good old double envelopment. Since they were defeated, it didn't move on to the next set. Actually, he found it in the manual...(which I had neglected to consult) It was because I had the entire map under control and what enemy forces did exist had no where to go....so I won...!!! I appreciate your efforts though...

I was fighting along happily as the US in the CARENTAN OPERATION...this one has nine battles to it...since I didn't have time to fight all the way thru at one sitting, I "saved" it a few segments along. When I went back to play it again it played normally...EXCEPT....it ended as a regular battle and NOT as a segment of an operation. Instead of going in to the next phase, it just ended with the same score page you get in a regular battle...(not the operation type of score page that only shows your losses). I used "save" the way it is written (and I had done before) in the HOTKEYS... Any ideas about what went wrong here???

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jekell: POSSIBLE SPOILER INFO BELOW - - - - - - - I played this through as Germans and I thought some things were strange. I held both bridges and even retook Ste. Come Du Mont during the last night battle. For the final battle, my setup was pushed back about 100m to the next treeline. Anyway, I don't remember what the final score was, but the AI sustained massive casualties(868 to my 193) and lost 16(I think) vehicles,and came away with a minor victory! I'll try playing as the Americans and see what happens... jekell<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> J, I "saved" at the fifth set as the Germans...if I am going to lose, regardless ...then I will wait to see who else encounteres this...thus far, three of us...(as you can see) I just did the first set as the US...ran the Germans off the map...(they obviously don't set up the same way they were when I played as them) ANOTHER odd thing though...during SET UP in the first round...you CAN'T SET UP...you cannot move a thing..not one squad, not one vehicle, not one bazooka (same as the Germans) Troop dispositions have been (seemingly) set in stone by the man who designed this one. I am assuming it has to do with historical accuracy, but I am not sure. Oddly and eeriely, I actually have been to Carentan and environ's with guys who made the jump there...so far there have been a few historical scens that were based on places I have been with men who fought there...makes one feel almost like the "Twilight Zone"...anyway...I appreciate your comments about the Carentan op-scen...glad I am not alone in this confusion...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Los: Hopefully this isn'ta spoiler but just in case... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Well the only thing I can think of is that the AI has been infiltrating units behind you. When I fought the battle I noticed the American AI very sneakily infiltrating rifle companies through those treelines Which are on the German right flank. In fact the AI having gotten it's nose bloodied very early at Ste Come Du Mont decided not to even bother with the left flank save for some holding attacks. Clever bastards. But that's what's nice about playing ona alrage mpa liek Carentan, there's lots of manuever room and not enough units to form an effectiev contigous line so reserves and recon patrols are important. By battle two I started smelling a rat so I sent out a few walking patrols, on of which discovered this infiltration attempt near the end of segment 2, and it lead to a rather nasty night battle. I did notice that the front lines receive X amount of meters seperation after each segemnt. This invariably never satisfies either payer,which ends up giving up hard earned space. And as you point out, you are pretty much in the middle of two large forces, the Airborne uunits which have landed mid-penninsula and the beachheads so there could be forces coming from two dirtections. Cheers... Los (I'll have to give the op another go, I've played it once through from either side.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> L, I appreciate the response. I pay very, very close attention to that stuff and had LP/OP's out, espicially during the night phases. In round 2, which was night, the US didn't attack until turn 15...and it was more like a probe...a screck guy was waiting for it and zapped a Sherman. A few infantry squads showed up and they were quickly dispatched. My only loss was that aforementioned shreck team...(this was at the first bridge on the left side...) Nothing even showed up at the right side bridge...yet when the set ended I was back at the 2d bridge even tho I hadn't lost the first one yet., even tho there was a bunker to the left covering part of the first bridge...too strange !! Anyway...your was a great tip...but I had it covered...I am open to any thoughts as to what the devil is going on here....

There is something I don't quite understand happening in the Carentan Operation. As recommended, I am playing as the Germans. In the first segment I took out all the US armor and a substantial number of infantry. In the 2d thru 4th segments I am defenting three bridges...each time I have been SUCCESSFUL in holding the bridges...didn't evn break a sweat doing so...negligable losses each time...but, before the next sgement begins (they are in blocks of 20 remember) the AI pulls me back from the bridges...since I havent lost the dammed things there is no reason for me to pull back...I am now on the fifth segment and I have given up the bridges entirely...but not because I lost them in action...not because I have been flanked (I haven't been)...I lost them because the AI moves me back after each event, even if I am in control of the area. Having been shot at before I am assuming that this might be put down as German units on my flanks are falling back...BUT....the mission of my German para's is to hold the bridges...period. The Allies not having these bridges will keep Utah and Omaha from linking up...so pulling back would not be prudent, even if the flanks were weak... What's the story scenario designers??? (Other than that I love it ...damn well done.) [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 07-06-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pwtcowboy: Played Ham & Jam last night against the AI. I really enjoyed it, got a major victory as the Allies, but boy did that machinegun bunker clobber me. I redeployed during the setup phase and ended up putting better than a platoon right in front of that bunker at no more than 50 meters away. Opening seconds of Turn 1, I lost 36 men to the blasted thing. It was kinda impressive to watch, if awfully disheartening. Later on, the two Panzers were really causing me fits until they tried to cross Pegasus bridge. I had 3 Piat teams under cover and hiding, waiting for such an opportunity. The first tank got hit at about 50 meters, the second one was knocked out from about 100 meters. The two tanks getting killed really seemed to break the Germans, and I was able to rush a couple of platoons back across the bridge and to the town. Kudos to the scenario designer, I enjoyed the heck out of it. Anybody else got any tales of disaster or near-disaster from this scenario?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I lost 47 to that dammed bunker.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunter: Guys, I had never seen this site before and found it while browsing tonight. It looks quite cool and has a poll on it at the moment "What strategy game are you playing now?". It seems some people aren't playing the right game!? http://www.strategy-gaming.com/screen_shots/european_wars/index.shtml Bruce<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> AS of 12:45 hrs,(6/27)EDT (US) the tally is 41% for Cm... Thanks for pointing this poll out. [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 06-27-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rother: Hey, Cap'n. For a small nominal fee I can tell you exactly where Rookie lives. Rother<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> MIke, I think Rook has got you now!!! The Cap isn't even close to the nutbar vH is...I think I'd hold off on this one..OR...get some real money from the Cap first... in cash....then take a vacation out of Alaska...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: Were you playing as the Americans or Germans? If you were the German side, then the bazooka may have disappeared because no (non-captured) German unit had a line of sight to him. Charles<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Charles, I was playing as the US...it was one of the quickie scens with US Airborne troops assaulting a German mg bunker and an 88mm, with Infantry in support. The dissapearing US bazookaman was making a flank assault on the bunker from the left into a clump of trees. Right behind him were two US rifle squads that were headed for the same destination. On the left side of the bunker one US rifle squad and four men from a destroyed mortar were attacking the bunker as well. The bunker crew was busy shooting at other US troops in front of them, but not assualting. The clump of trees next to the bunker (left side) turned out to be housing a heretofore unseen German mortar (81mm) and crew. The US bazookaman got to those trees about one turn before the rifle squads coming up on his six. He fought the Germans for a bit, his assistant bazookaman was killed and he surrendered. In the next turn the German mortar crew was overrun by the other US troops previously mentioned and THEY (the Germans) surrendered. Now the bazookaman is technically free. He sat there with his hands in he air, even though this clump of trees was now held by his own people and his captors were now POW's themselves. I expected him to come back to "action" as it were, because he was still needed to kill the nearby bunker. Never happened. SO...how can he be moved off the map if he has been liberated BEFORE that event occurs?? Many Thanks... [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 06-24-2000).]

Playing a small scen in the final version. (NO spoiler here!) A bazookaman is captured...two turns later, his German captors are captured by two Airborne rilfe squads. One would assume that he was "un-captured" at that point. Actually, for the next three turns he was STILL a POW...then, he just disappeared !!! (Yup!! just like in the beta when someone died...he just flat was gone!) Question One: Has this happened to anyone else?? Question Two: Why wasn't he "liberated" when his guys showed up??

I have only had the final version for about 20 hours now, but I did manage to play that wonderful toutorial because it has such interesting possilities with regard to the terrain. I also played about six different quickies. Here are a few things I learned the hard way: 1. Mech Infantry will get chewed up by the German quad 20mm AA gun. The scenario I set up was a reinforced Mech Infantry coimpany with 105mm/81mm in support as well as organic 60mm. There were several half tracks and three M-8's, and two gun jeeps. THe objetive was a village. There was a large objective flag in the center of the village and there were four smaller ones on the outside, behind the village in various treed areas. I was conducting a double envelopment with a lot of pressure up the middle too. The center and right side attacks went along without a hitch. The left side, which had the same force size that the right side had ( one mounted rifle platoon, one gun jeep and one M8), ran in to trouble right away. (I had made this a 20 turn scenario) By turn six or seven I had lost five half tracks, one M8, and was making a ground assault on the left side. I KNEW there were "guns" facing me there, but I didn't know one was a rapid fire AA gun. My 60mm had taken out a 75mm gun, but EVERYTHING that went after the other "gun" got creamed. The visual was just like the other gun...a little grey gun with a soldier behind it and "gun??" above it. By now my right and center forces had been fully sucessful, so I was attacking this "gun" from three directions..He got ANOTHER M-8 and some more infantry. Finally, the 105mm was able to get a good LOS and smoked him. He had killed five tracks, two M8's, two jeeps and NINETEEN infantrymen. BEWARE of this "gun"...I guess if you can't "see" it, your only tip off will be too many dead guys piling up in one place. <sigh> 2. GERMAN HALFTRACKS... Don't always assume that they are plain old every day tracks with a squad of PzGrens and an MG...they also could be a track mounted AT gun...I lost a Sherman M5 to one of these guys...again, the ID was hard to make..(just like in a real firefight) 3. GOOD STUFF...I set up a nice big fight between the British (I like to think it was actually the Irish Guards) and the German armor. It was in Sept, 44 and on nice flat, nearly treeless terrain. I had M5's, Crocs and Croms...The Croc and the Croms can take serious punishment...one was hit nine times on his frontal armor without ill effect. Another was hit seven in the same manner. The shooter(s) were Hetzers and a 75mm track (discussed above). One of the Croc's was closing on a "rough" area when a (previously unseen) German AT gunner popped up...on its own the Croc let loose with the flame thrower and lit that shreck team up ...(and the surrounding "rough" area with it.) It was a thing of beauty to behold. <efg>

DrD, Sorry!!! ...to paraphrase ole Sgt. Friday on Dragnet, I am just stating the facts as I know them...<g>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mikester: All right you sound hounds. I have the S/B Live card already. Thinking real serioiusly about upgrading my somewhat chintzy speakers though. What's my best bet / bang for the buck. Do the "digital" speakers work w/ the SB Live card? Are there any real benefits to the digitial speaker setup? What about 2 speaker system like what I have now vs. surround 4 speaker systems. Are they worth it? Thanks for any input / thoughts you may have. Mikester out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> M, I am far from an expert, not to mention that I have some hearing loss . However, I have a set of Altec Lansings with a subwoofer that is wondrful in CM and flight sims. The subwoofer makes a hell of a lot of difference, IMO. I have also seen the surround sound and it is ever better with those two additional speakers.

I STRONGLY second what 0311 posted above.(not that it matters I have had SOOOOO many Priority mail packages (with client contracts or my work products) get misplaced, that I will not use anything but FedEx (or UPS sometimes) when working with clients, much less for my personal life. It is probably a pain in the rump to do FedEx or UPS verses USPS, but the option would be a nice addition. Hell, I would have sent Steve and Charles my own FedEx acct number to send me CM. This isn't just disappointment at not being able to play Cm when we have waited so long...(longer for some than for others.) Granted we, the currently disenfranchised, are behaving like kids on a Christmas countdown (where applicible) It is also about the frustration that many of us have obviously had with the USPS in our professional (and sometimes personal) lives. Then, there is just BAD LUCK... Which many of us seem to currently be experiencing... (Archangel considering a nice new half-gallon jug of SAPPHIRE as he prepares to (happily) load LD for the billionth time) MANTA: I didn't see your posting until AFTER I posted...I do understand your point though....but I would have been happy to pay extra for shipping....nor have I heard it suggested that Steve or Charles screwed anyone...the consensus amongst we without CM seems to be directed at the USPS, not BTS or any of our associates here on the site. [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 06-20-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EScurlock: Has anyone in the D.C. area gotten it? I fear the worst, but I'm a pesimist. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes! One of the guys IN DC has it, as does one in Centerville.