Pak40
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Posts posted by Pak40
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jasoncawley@ameritech.net:
But they have drastically simplified what was going on for the purpose of fitting it into a movie. The supporting arms are largely missing. For instance, more U.S. soldiers were killed or wounded by mortar fire on Omaha beach than by machineguns - many of them while sheltering behind the sea wall, some by hits on or near the landing craft or crossing the beach proper. They don't show it because it took longer, basically.
While on the other side, the U.S. sent several battalions of "swimming" tanks to support the men on the beach, in the first wave. Some of them sank in the surf, and others were blasted by German guns, but a number were operating along the beach, shooting back at the machinegun nests. And destroyers came in to 400 yards off the beach, when they saw how bad things were, to plaster the bunkers with 5 inch guns.
The preliminary bombardment was also missing,
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For obvious movie making reasons SPR can't be perfectly historically accurate or realistic. One of those reasons being that 4-5 hour movies don't float too well with the public.
I can't help but correct your inaccuracies. Usually I don't care if people are wrong but in this case it's just too much.
Yes mortars were devastating on Omaha beach. SPR did an excellent job showing that. Did you not realize this when Miller was dragging half of a soldiers body or the countless other explosions on the beach?
And , personally, I think that MG fire was far more devastating in the first and second waves than the mortar fire. If you've ever read Amrose's D-Day you'd get the same idea in your head.
In regard to your comment about the DD tanks, only 3 made it ashore. Yes 3 out of 32, the rest drowned. Omaha beach was some 5+ miles long and only 3 DD tanks made it ashore, so excuse Speilberg for not showing one. Other tanks coming off of LCTs made it ashore but they were on the other side of Omaha beach.
Regarding your quote on the destroyers: Yes they were there and played a big part helping to open the draws. But, as I stated, Omaha was several miles long and the chance that one of the few destroyers were even near the 200 meter stretch of sand where Miller's company hit the beach is very slim.
The preliminary bombardment on Omaha was very ineffectual. Naval fire was too far inland and the bombers, who were supposed to bomb the beach so that infantry could benefit from the craters, were also off target (for the most part).
THE TWO MAIN INACCURACIES OF THE BEACH LANDING IN SPR AS I SEE IT:
1. The beach width was way too short. SPR gave the impression that the run to the sea wall was maybe 75 yards. In reality there was a low tide when they attacked and the men had to run 200+ yards in some places to get to the seawall. I'm not sure of the exact figures but I could dig them up.
2. The soldiers were on the beach a lot more than 20 minutes before the first openings were made in the defenses. But I'm not really upset at this because I understand that Speilberg couldn't make a landing scene an hour long.
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PD:
To me, the movie "The Longest Day" was more realistic, acknowledging that there were more people around than just the americans, the the pictures of the beaches through the sights of the two strafing planes showed more misery than "Ryan" was capable of.
'course it's only in Black and White.
[This message has been edited by PD (edited 01-19-2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're comparing two different types of movies: one that's showing the big picture of D-Day and another that's only showing a small unit's actions during D-Day. SPR wasn't intended to be a film about D-Day, it's intended to show war at a more personal level.
I don't know which "Ryan" you were watching but the scene on the beach with the guy's guts spilling out crying "momma" and the guy walking around in a daze looking for his arm showed more misery than in the entire film "The Longest Day".
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Yes, I think Caen is the best map so far. It has the war torn feel of urban combat. Lots of buildings to enter and nooks and crannies to hide in as a sniper. The random artillery rounds add a touch of reality also. It's also well balanced unlike the Omaha map which has to be the worst one I've seen. Omaha is just a killing spree without purpose, tactics or even reality.
The entire game really depends on who you are playing with. If you have some nut in there who insists on killing his own teamates, then the game wont be fun. If everyone in the game actually tries to use infantry tactics and realistically tries to stay alive, then it will be a great game.
I'd really like to see a map that doesn't allow you to respawn. That would really inspire players to play realistically instead of rushing into certain death.
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Practice the famous "tounge twister" method from the movie American Pie
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Thank you for this link. I had no idea this mod existed. I downloaded it tonight and played the Caen map. I was pretty damn impressed.
Here are a few descriptions and features for those interested:
"Day of Defeat" is a Half Life mod of WW2 combat and tries to be as realistic as possible while still being a playable game.
Most of the major weapons are accurately modeled (as far as I can tell), including bazookas, Panzerfausts, flamethrowers.
The Caen map (the only one I've played so far) is a great map of a ruined city. My teamates and I were moving by leaps and bounds throughout the debris of the streets, ducking into half ruined buildings for cover. Many builings have stairs to get up to the second level which some provide excellent dark hiding spots for snipers.
Several classes to choose from. As allies you have:
Sniper: M1 Springfield w/ scope
Light infantry: M1 Garand
Assault infantry: Thompson SMG
Heavy infantry: BAR
Medic: pistol
and there are others such as .50 and .30 mgs. The Germans have their equivelent classes.
Probably the best thing about this mod is that Fatigue plays a roll. You can't go jumping about and firing your weapon as much as you want. You have a limited amount of ammo and you will quickly be exhausted from jumping around. Tired soldiers move at half their movement rate. No more crazy jumping opponents that are hard to kill.
So far I've played 3 classes:
Sniper, assault inf, and Heavy inf(BAR). All have their advantages and weaknesses. The sniper can hide in the shadows and wait for the one shot kill...The Assault infantry has good speed but not great killing power at long ranges and wont tire quickly. The Heavy infantry is slower and will tire quickly but has punching power of the BAR.
None of these classes rule the battlefield so far. I have learned not to stay in the streets too long because a sniper in the shadows will kill you quick. Yet if you close assault a sniper he is a dead man.
I highly recommend this mod for anyone who likes WW2 infantry combat. If you play the game with others who are seriously in to playing, then you can have one hell of a combat experience.
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Allied tanks had faster turrets. This subtracts from the time used to lay the gun on the target. This will give them and advantage, all other things being equal.
I always have assumed that CM did model AP/HE switching and AFVs in CM did ride around with a round in the breach.
I suggest you make your own map with nothing on it but a Sherman 75 and MkIV. Put them appoximately 100m apart, directly facing each other so that there is no turret turning. Make both crews equal in experience. Replay the scenario 10 or 20 times and let us know the results of who fired first.
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian:
IMO, this is 100% "gamey." That doesn't mean I'm saying not to use it, in fact, I will try to in my gaming future.
But, as it appears to me, the game engine and game restrictions (i.e., map edge) were used, therefore, not "realistic" and hence gamey.
However, I applaud your innovation and insight into exploiting this! I like it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I disagree, this is not gamey at all. In real life the men on the battlefield could hear incomming fire, use a watch to time the sound of the round fired to the explosion on the ground, then estimate the bearing. This will give any artillery personell the means to calculate an appoximate area of where the artillery piece is located.
I'm not sure how effective this is with mortars on the battlefield but it could be done. My guess is that mortar sounds can be heard several hundered yards across open ground.
Also, his main piece of evidence was that the mortar craters showed the direction in which the mortar was firing from. This could be determined by any man on the battlefield and is therefore not gamey.
The use of the map edge is the only "gamey" part about his evidence but, as others have stated, his enemy should have set his mortar in a safer less conspicuous place.
In my opinion he used good deductive reasoning and took a gamble at wasting a few precious rounds from his Wespe. His gamble paid off.
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There should be an option NOT to have VFs on Meeting Engagement maps. That way there is no mad rush to capture the flags in the beginning. ME score should be based solely on unit loss/capture.
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It requires lots of time to balance. Lots of playtesting from yourself. Play testing from other people is critical. Their feedback is important.
Here's a good way to develope a scenario: design it, play it yourself a couple of times, make tweaks to it, then release it to the public as a Beta version and ask for feedback from players. Use the feedback to make tweaks and then release the "Official" version.
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Honestly, I've never had this problem. In all the games I've ever played there's been only been one KT and that was mine. And I lost that game by a last turn infantry rush.
I never buy those heavy tanks, too many points spent on one vehicle that could be disabled by an 81mm mortar round.
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Good tactics to defeat the Hetzer will depend on the situation and the layout of the map. But a general tactic would be to use 81mm offboard smoke to blind the Hetzer and any other enemy units. Be liberal with the smoke - don't worry about losing HE artillery rounds. The purpose of the smoke is to get your tanks and infanrty into better position without taking fire and hopefully he wont even see most of your units move. If the Hetzer moves forward to get clear of the smoke, then he will be more vulnerable and you should probably start your attack right away, otherwise read the following.
Start your assault after the smoke clears. Rush 3 tanks towards the Hetzer, two of them on flanking runs and the other straight at the Hetzer. You may substitute an M8 for one of the tanks but he will have to get behind the Hetzer to take him out. If possible, rush infantry with the tanks (or embarked) so that enemy infantry(panzerfausts) and Panzershreks can be engaged. Hellcats will make the best rushers because of their speed but the open top will leave them vulnerable when close to enemy infantry. Keep all of your armored units on the move constantly. With the gyrostabalizer they are good enough shots when on the move and they are harder to hit because they are moving. Be prepared to lose 2/3 of your armor.
Keep in mind that even 75mm guns have a good chance of killing a Hetzer from the side. Also, if the Hetzer is not hull down then the front lower hull can be penetrated by a 75mm.
If you have on board 81mm mortars, then they stand a good chance of immobilizing the Hetzer. I have yet to kill one with mortars, but it may be possible because of the weak top armor.
Another option is to keep using smoke every 4 or 5 turns to blind the Hetzer, basically blinding him for half of the game. While he is blind, get your tanks into better positions to engage infantry and other targets. Let the Hetzer live, so long as he doesn't try to break free of the smoke screen. You'll need all the rounds of at least one off board 81mm to do this, maybe two.
I wouldn't worry too much about the Hetzer engaging your infanty. They carry few HE shells and only one mg.
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Good God! I wonder how many copyright laws you broke by posting this here.
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I'm guessing that you mean Combat Mission. My advice is that you buy CM, it is the best computer wargame ever published. period. Not to knock Tac Ops (I've never played it), but the number of posts on the CM forum totals over 164000 and the total number of posts on the Tac Ops forum is 713. I think that can tell you how good CM really is.
Maybe there's someone else who has played both games and can give you a comparison of the two.
Download the CM demo if you havn't yet.
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo:
That's just the thing, the next turn I can target the tank just fine, with perfect LOS.
And this is without any of my tanks, or the enemy tank moving at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
hmmm, maybe we need some clarifiacation about the rubble LOS calculations from Steve or Charles.
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo:
IIRC, bazooka team has less/lighter ammo than piat/schreck teams.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Atually the bazooka teams generally carry 8 rounds but the schrecks only 5. This makes sense because the zook round is smaller. I assume that BTS modeled all of these teams to carry normal loads givin the size and weight of their rounds.
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Try the Son Operation made by yours truly. You can get it at the CMHQ.
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Yes, a tank located on a backward slope will have increased armor effectiveness. A tank on a forward slope will have decreased armor effectiveness.
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That's because the house isn't completely destroyed, it's turned into rubble. Rubble still blocks LOS although not as much as the original building.
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Guy w/gun:
76mm<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, that's your answer. The 76mm has a very good chance at killing a Tiger, execpt a long ranges.
[This message has been edited by Pak40 (edited 01-07-2001).]
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For those intereseted in the northren shoulder of the Bulge
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I agree with you completely.
Play my Arnhem Campaign. Ignore the results at the end of the campaign. The victory conditions are givin in the briefing.
BTW, I don't think the AI requires an objective flag. I've been playing a particular battle against the AI and it doesn't require victory flags or an "exit edge". But, I guess that on a really big map, the AI might be confused or lack a good attacking direction without V flags. It's probably best to keep these maps small to medium size.
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Morphing Cell:
Why aren't all rifles automatic?
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There are a several reasons:
1) automatic rifles expend a lot of ammo quickly. If every soldier had an autmatic rifle then there would be serious supply problems.
2) They are heavy and bulky. The BAR is quite a load and it is intended to fire from a set position with it's bipod. Regular rifles, on the other hand, can easily be handled, run with, and fired on the move.
3) There are different jobs for different weapons. A bolt action rifle has high accuracy and is good for sniping. A semiautomatic rifle has a good balance of firepower and accuracy. BAR and machine guns have a lot of firepower and less accuracy because of their high rate of fire, but are great at keeping the enemy's head down while your riflemen get into better position.
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I'd rather name my own leader, if that's what you mean.
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I don't think you can. Your best bet is to make some screen grabs and save them (print them out if possible) and try to recreate the map from scratch.
Buttoned tanks and AT team spotting (again)
in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)
Posted
Yes. But there is a big difference between hunting and rushing a tank with lots of infantry (which is what you're discribing).
Hunting requires patience, sneaking, waiting, patience, sneaking, waiting, then BLAM!
A zook is not an offensive weapon, but you're trying to use it as one.
It seems to me you are trying to kill your oppenets armor as quickly as possible, which seems logical, but it always isn't the best choice.
The great thing about infantry vs. armor is that your infantry can always see the tank. The tank can't see all of your infantry. Your infantry, therefore, have the edge and can stay out of LOS. The enemy tank will have to work its way closer to get a shot at the infantry. That's when your hidden zook takes him out. Now if you're playing a map without much cover then you should have bought an AT gun, not zooks.