Gromit
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Posts posted by Gromit
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But there's also the "emotional" aspect that 1:1 brings about. I've seen a lot of comments over the years about people honestly having problems with watching their units take casualties. There was one made today, in fact, in another thread. I don't recall seeing such comments for CMx1 games.
Steve
I have always thought of this emotional attachment aspect as one of computer gaming's "holy grails". It is difficult to achieve that suspension of disbelief, but when it works, MAN... it almost ceases to be a game in a lot of ways- at least for me.
That's why I am still working on a design for a squad level infantry game, either for board or computer. There are a lot of elements I would like to include, but they muddy up the design of course. Ah well, dreams are what make life tolerable, eh?
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Steve:
I am wondering if, given that chronologically the Ost Front will work backwards towards 1941, there a chance we will see a late-game return to the Western Front in 1940?
Char B1 bis FTW! http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/allied/charb1bispreviewsz_2_1.html
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This is why when Steve says so and so will take a few days or a few weeks, etc., he is so far off the mark. He clearly failed at math.
*Raises hand*
Yeah, like the rest of us, I surmise, because we were all busy reading WW2 history books and boardgame rulebooks instead of paying attention in class!!
DOHHH!Looking forward to the next installment of... "As the CM:Normandy World Turns" (que corny organ music)
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JonS,
We are leaving the 3rd Module "open" for miscellaneous stuff that doesn't really fit into any one specific niche. Adding LW Field Divisions might wind up there. At least I want them in. They shouldn't take too much work to get into the game since, for the most part, they were organized like WH units.
ASL Veteran,
Yes, a very good point to make and one I completely forgot to mention. This is, indeed, a big reason behind our overall "all or nothing" approach to a particular force type. Production reasons aside, it complicates the game player's experience if a particular force is broken up over several Modules. "I just made a battle which has FJ "infantry" backed up by a platoon of FJ Panzerjägers and another platoon of FJ Pioneers. Make sure you have all 3 modules necessary for this or you can't play it!" Yeah, that would be pretty bad I think!
What it comes down to is that for a particular force type it really does have to be "all or nothing" for both production and playability reasons. And the base game must have the basic elements, pretty much in full, right from the start.
Steve
Hmmm, so Steve, are you looking at all the Luftwaffe ground units (not just the FJ) as a whole then wrt the module they appear in? It would seem to make sense that way- at least with a cursory glance.
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Mikko H.
Exactly. It's one of the "problems" of a democratic government... lose the confidence of the people and you lose your jobs. Confidence in Churchill, at that particular moment, was fragile to say the least. If the BEF did not return home I very sincerely believe that Chuchill's government would have fallen. The replacement for Churchill would likely have been someone very open to the possibility of peace. And if Chuchill's government survived, I think it would be so politically weak that Britain would have been better off if it had fallen. IMHO nothing is worse than a parliamentarian system where there is near parity of power.
Steve
Nice discussion guys. I don't think it takes all that much conjecture or what-if'ing to realize what Steve is driving at here. Had decisions been made to pursue the British at Dunkirk the way the German generals had wanted, with the BEF in the bag, who is to say that invasion was even necessary at that point?
Defeating the RAF would have required a more strategic gameplan for sure; maybe something beyond Goering and his cronies. But flattening all the 11 Group radar sites and airfields as a prelude to hitting the southern factories that made fighters might have given the Germans enough time to make a serious effort to strangle England's supply lines through the air as well as on the sea via U-boats.
Given the dicey political situation, I could see where enough "bad news" piling up day after day in 1940 may have broken the Brits will to fight to the death.
1. Mass surrender of the BEF.
2. Defeat of the majority of Fighter Command and loss of pilots.
3. Increased sinkings of convoys in summer of 1940.
Obviously there are challenges to overcome for the Germans too. Loss of pilots being a major one as you don't intend on occupying southern England. Another would be modifying the Luftwaffe from essentially a Army support short-range tactical force to a more well-rounded one. I think the pieces were there to some extent. The Germans knew they had a winner with the JU-88 design. It worked well in many roles and could have been modified earlier to provide longer range alternatives. As far as fighters... that's a tougher nut. The Fw190 was a year away historically; if decisions had been made to concentrate on refining its radial engine a bit earlier, who knows? Building more Fw200 Condors and working on resolving its superstructure issues would provide yet another increase in long range air attacks on the supply convoys.
I don't believe it to be all that far fetched that things could have turned out VERY differently, given the political situation.
I guess that's why I like playing games like Hearts of Iron 3 so much!
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How 'bout we get back on topic here guys? Otherwise my crystal ball forecasts a threadlock dead ahead- and none of us want that, right?
So... how about those pesky fallschirmjagers, eh?
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I think the problem with all that Elmar is CM is enjoyed not only by folks who tend to play a lot of human vs. CPU, but against a human opponent, normally via e-mailed turns.
I haven't come across anything in these forums since 1999 that gets under a grog's collar as much as an opponent "using gamey tactics" or, put another way- historically unrealistic situations. Things that are beyond the realm of reason compared to history- let's say those King Tigers, for instance.
As a fellow who enjoys single player immensely- really, I DO understand where you are coming from. But, I gotta say, that while you are certainly entitled to your opinons and that is a large part of what these forums are all about... at some point you have to realize it just isn't going to happen. That drum of yours you have been beating just isn't being heard by the people that count- because there isn't a reason for them to listen.
As Blind Pew said to Captain Billy Bones... "Business is business, Mr. Bones."
I may not like some of the decisions Steve and Charles choose to make, but, in the ten years I have known them they haven't ever turned their backs on me and they are still around. Who else can you say that about in this line of work? They do their absolute best for ALL of us, and that earns them a lot of trust in my book.
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Let's not forget that it is summertime; people are want to take vacations, show significant others that yes, the rumors of their demise were patently false... you get the idea.
I am sure that, like the new school year closing fast, with all it's new smells and excitement, we will soon witness a breaking of the "don't ask, don't tell" clause surrounding the CM WW2 release.
Too over-the-top? Meh... I'm bored.
Ja nah!
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With regard to your videocard, turn off antialiasing and ansiotropic filtering to see if it makes any difference. I still have occasional lockups and texture corruption on my PC with certain games (I don't have ToW2) due to these issues. Another thing to try when you have graphics corruption (black screen you mentioned, etc.) is to turn off "conformant texture clamp" in the NVidia control panel.
These have helped some when I couldn't find a solution under normal means. Not having AA/AF kinda sucks, but, it's probably only a tweak by 1C or Nvidia away from working as it should.
Try the same "dial down" of other settings too and see what if any effect they might have on ToW2. Some games are just sensitive under certain conditions (card brand Q, setting Z, game X, etc.).
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The expectation of an '09 release is welcome news indeed. The phenomenon whereby time appears to accelerate as one ages can be alarming but, in cases like these, it's quite helpful.
I can well remember the INTERMINABLE wait for the original Close Combat or Steel Panthers to be released. But I was younger then with less to worry about.
I'm 37 now with three kids so, in gaming release terms, '09 is just about the same thing as immediately. In this narrow sense, I pity the younger gamers whom will seem to have to wait longer for CMx2.
And who knows, maybe some of our senior gamers are already playing it! (Or think they are.)
:-P
How did you guess? These are the kind of games I have been dreaming up in my noggin for the last oh... 34 years, give or take.
Just like Steve and Charles (although how Charles manages to communicate effectively with his brain in a jar still eludes me...) but they decided to take the next step.
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Ah, just what the starving WW2 fanatic wargamer needs- a summer release of CMx2 Normandy! I am looking forward to the buildup of screenshots and other "bones" thrown by BF as we get closer to gold. Should make for a great diversion from the sweltering Virginia summer heat.
Glad to hear that replays are available again Steve, I like having the option to watch especially exciting action at a whim.
Having followed the various debates on the board as a long-time CMx1 player who has never purchased SF, I can honestly say that the argument as to whether RT or WEGO is better doesn't matter to me in the least. I am just thrilled that we will have the choice as to how to play. Definitely Win-Win all around...
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Yeah, I am looking forward to fighting with my favorite Fallschirmjaeger units once again!
Oh, by the way; I found a cheap book at Barnes and Noble by James Lucas called "Storming Eagles: German Airborne Forces in WWII" that is a great read for any of you who like the FJ. The account of the forming of the force and their first major assault on Eben Emael in Belgium is fascinating. They used some truly groundbreaking methods and gallantry to take the place by storm.
Thanks for the tidbit about the Porsche turret by the way Steve... now get back to work!!
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Remember too that there will be differences in Condition, Experience, Leadership skill etc. As with CMBB, veteran German troops may be Weakened Veterans with superb +2 NCOs, while Americans are Fit Green troops with +0 NCOs. That will make a real difference.
It's been so long I had forgotten about those factors. Works well enough for me. I guess I have just always enjoyed games more if they possessed a bit of rpg-like quality to them. *shrugs*
Looking forward to updates in any case.
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For the Germans only? No. The US and Commonwealth Armies operated under the same tactical principles as the Germans did, largely because they emulated German advances in infantry and mechanized warfare during and after WWI. Trust me, any Allied officer worth his salt had read most of the same classics that the German officers did (including Rommel's "Infantry Attacks"). In turn the Germans were influenced HEAVILY by British, French, and American mechanized warfare theorists. Ironically, initially the Germans paid more attention to the likes of Liddell-Hart, Fuller, Patton, etc. than did their own militaries
My point is that by the time 1944 comes around there isn't much tactical difference in terms of theory. The Germans should not have some sort of different means of acting, at least not at the tactical level that we simulate. Plus, the day we would be able to program the AI to carry out subtle differences in tactical execution is the day we quit wargaming and get our Nobel Prizes in Artificial Intelligence
Steve
Difference in terms of theory? No, I totally agree. But the execution on the battlefield is where I feel the Germans might be allowed some extra advantage in initiative. After all, their discipline policy was by far the harshest of the western powers, all the men knew that they were subject to questioning regarding their actions if even a hint of inaction, cowardice or desertion was suspected. The burden of proof was on them, not the Army itself.
I was thinking along the lines of attributes for the German combat leaders and the chances of producing a leader "ad hoc" from a given formation when the previous leader is incapacitated.
As to how to incorporate these ideas... well, of course, that's the real tough part. Don't know if it would even be possible in a game of this type. Not too hard to accomplish in a boardgame, but CM? Hmm... I suppose you are correct that it would fall under the law of diminishing returns wrt the AI.
Alright, so given your position Steve, just what will end up differentiating the sides in CM:Normandy? I am sure I wouldn't be alone in saying one of my pet peeves is a game where all the various sides are essentially the same with some window dressing differences (graphics, colors, costs) to try and offset the ubiquity of it all (bleh).
I want to see advantages and disadvantages that help broaden the "suspension of disbelief" factor for CM. I'd like to hear your ideas and point of view!
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Steve:
I have in the last three years been cobbling together the bits and parts of ideas for my own WW2 game, and as reference material I purchased Truppenfuhrung for its value in establishing proper German tactics.
In the end of the introduction section there exists a now famous emphasized paragraph I imagine you are familiar with:
"The first criterion in war remains decisive action. Everyone, from the highest commander down to the youngest soldier, must constantly be aware that inaction and neglect incriminate him more severely than any error in the choice of means."Captain A.C. Wedemeyer, an American student exchange officer in late 1930s Germany summed it up as thus:
"Better a faulty plan or decision permeated with boldness, daring, and decisiveness, than a perfect plan enmeshed in uncertainty."I think we can all agree that what made the Germans a particularly fearsome enemy was their ability to apply the lessons of Clausewitz, Moltke, and Seeckt regardless of the situation at the moment and the weapons of war. Whether an attack, defense or some other action, they usually had men ready to take advantage of a given situation. (I leave the reasons for their ultimate defeat for another discussion.)
Is there any hope of this German "personal initiative" aspect making its way into the artificial intelligence of CM: Normandy?
Just curious
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Steve:
Yes, definitely just like old times. Incredible to think it's been over nine years (!) since the first CM1 phenomenon took place. Feeling a bit nostalgic myself... *sniff*
I'd even threaten to start a "scotch" thread except that Charles might stop programming to contribute.
I am glad to see the new release format working for you guys and am eagerly awaiting the CM:Normandy release. I am happy that both RT and Wego are integral parts of CM now and even some of us old farts have learned to play in RT style (CoH for me). Shocking, isn't it?!
I'd like to change the subject slightly Steve if you could take a crack at answering a tech question for me. I had to rebuild my PC this summer due to a bad motherboard and decided to build-in some future flexiblility by making it dual boot with Vista 64-bit and XP Pro.
My questions are regarding 32 and 64-bit operation system support in the CMx2 engine.
- What are the company's plans regarding migration to the upcoming 64-bit standard?
- Does a move to 64-bit help alleviate some of the RAM-oriented address issues you guys have faced for years, or is that more of a VRAM issue?
- I am looking at investing in a 1GB RAM ATi 4700 series videocard and I am curious if CMx2 titles would take advantage of the doubling of VRAM under both 32-bit and 64-bit?
Thanks for being so responsive on the forums Steve- it's good to see things in full swing again!
Best of luck! :cool:
- What are the company's plans regarding migration to the upcoming 64-bit standard?
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Ahhh... sweet news to my ears!
**sniff**... makes me weepy just thinking about it.
Old Guard signing off again,
Gromit
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Hmm, I have to agree with the "wait and see" crowd for now. I was hoping this release would help fill the gap until the upcoming WW2 game from BF, but the lack of building-centric battles leaves it incomplete. Oh well, it's not like I haven't got other games to play in the meantime.
Happy Holidays everyone!
Gromit
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Seems pretty cut and dried to me... a large part of the forum base for CM-whatever is attached at the hip to (wait for it!) World War II, not modern day conflict. So why hang around?
Personally, BFG has nothing for sale or in the works right now that I am even remotely interested in... oh, I understand the reasons behind needing to come out with the current day version first and even agree with them- but it sure makes for a dull time here in the ol' forums eh?
I check in every three months or so just to see if anything new is cooking. Unfortunately I feel like Yukon Cornelius "smack, smack, smack... nothin'!"
Sigh... maybe next year!
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Disappointed?- meh... only slightly.
WW2 might have been nice, but after the virtual decade of effort Steve, Charles and the gang have given us, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Steve's points are good ones, particularly about developing 2 games at once if not doing the modern one first. I'll play the demo when it comes out to see how the new engine feels and then look forward to the second release, knowing the lessons from CM:SF will greatly benefit the WW2 title.
Besides guys; there are going to be a lot of interesting titles released for PCs in the next year, and that doesn't even scratch what new console stuff is coming down the pike.
Never hurts to broaden your horizons guys!
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I believe Steve mentioned in one of the terrain threads that the underlying terrain mesh can be made in any configuration at the 1m scale- height included. So I don't see why a ditch would pose much of a problem, nor a craggy cliff for that matter.Originally posted by Peter Cairns:What I want to know is can you put contours closer than 8m apart, or is it free hand that would let you put an 80m contour 1m from a1m to create an 80 in 1 sheer cliff face.
should be able to do ditches running parallel to roads.
ie Level (0m), -1m then 1m later -1m, then level (0m), for the road and the same at the other side. still not perfect but miles bettter than the CM1 option of "just pretend there are ditches.
Peter
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I believe Steve mentioned in one of the terrain threads that the underlying terrain mesh can be made in any configuration at the 1m scale- height included. So I don't see why a ditch would pose much of a problem, nor a craggy cliff for that matter.Originally posted by Peter Cairns:What I want to know is can you put contours closer than 8m apart, or is it free hand that would let you put an 80m contour 1m from a1m to create an 80 in 1 sheer cliff face.
should be able to do ditches running parallel to roads.
ie Level (0m), -1m then 1m later -1m, then level (0m), for the road and the same at the other side. still not perfect but miles bettter than the CM1 option of "just pretend there are ditches.
Peter
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I believe Steve mentioned in one of the terrain threads that the underlying terrain mesh can be made in any configuration at the 1m scale- height included. So I don't see why a ditch would pose much of a problem, nor a craggy cliff for that matter.Originally posted by Peter Cairns:What I want to know is can you put contours closer than 8m apart, or is it free hand that would let you put an 80m contour 1m from a1m to create an 80 in 1 sheer cliff face.
should be able to do ditches running parallel to roads.
ie Level (0m), -1m then 1m later -1m, then level (0m), for the road and the same at the other side. still not perfect but miles bettter than the CM1 option of "just pretend there are ditches.
Peter
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Bumpity bump bump.
DOHHH!
Holiday Bones, Norman Style
in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy
Posted
I feel like... well, a kid at Christmas! Some serious bones Steve. The news on trenches and FOW is more than I expected. As far as the pics- bones of Anaxos!- those are just placeholders?
God help my heart when all is said and done. You have truly outdone yourselves.
Take a break... there, did you enjoy it? Now back to work! (with apologies to Rowan Atkinson as Blackadder)
Cheers!
Gromit