Bil Hardenberger

No harm done.. and now you are an experienced modder. Congrats! Hopefully this link will work... works for me. http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=2239

Rake, PM the author next time if you are having trouble like this. Bil

Heh.. thanks.. hopefully the wheels won't come off when contact is made.

Well the run up to The Hill objective worked as planned... the truck casualty on the other side was not part of the plan but really that would not have happened if my Grilles had laid their smoke screens the turn before like they were supposed to, but sh*t happens. I never had the intention that the attack through the orchard with the Italians was going to be the main attack. I was hoping to attrit ND's forces and ascertain his locations. They did that just fine before I pulled them off.. but at much higher cost than I expected. Still I have a lot of Italians left and they are ready to absorb any attack on the Orchard ND might throw at them.. like the Infantry Platoon down slope from them. Guess you'll have to wait and see eh? Truthfully I haven't really decided what I am going to do once I get to the Villa.. it is all going to depend on what I find there. I expect some infantry on the back slope of the Villa (maybe a Platoon of infantry, perhaps some MG teams. I don't know.. I've only seen a few FOW infantry icons so it could be anything). I also expect to see the second T30 and another halftrack that I have yet to see but is part of the T30 platoon.. I can't imagine that platoon (the two T30's) would come in without their HQ vehicle. Also... ND still has two very alive Shermans.. each of which have been hit twice.. but I have no clue what kind of damage has been done to them. They could be crippled, or they could be just fine.. regardless they are still dangerous. Fun times ahead for sure.

The Thirty Seventh Minute My infantry starts its move towards the Villa. Meanwhile a Pz-IV begins its Sherman hunting run... ...while more infantry streams towards the Hill. A Pz-III is already on the scene. There are still 48 rounds to fall from my 105 barrage, so I have a few turns yet to build up before I can start to maneuver safely without suffering fratricide. Across the map, ND's remaining Sherman on the southern ridge, who cannot see my tanks, lays a smoke screen in front of them. The arrow indicates the direction of the wind, so this is a nuisance at best. I can maintain my coverage of this side of the Villa by simply moving my other tank under the smoke screen. I believe ND is going to try to extricate the Sherman that I penetrated twice and that is a sitting duck under my artillery barrage and could be in sight of a Grille soon as the smoke starts to shift.

Marco, you better include me in on that testing

It may be an old gripe, but it is still a very valid one. It doesn't hurt to restate these issues form time to time.. squeaky wheel > grease, etc.... Bil

The Thirty Sixth Minute ND moved his Sherman back a few meters and popped smoke (blue circle)... my Pz-IV failed to get a shot off before it had disappeared behind the smoke and dust. However, my tank still had a good spot on his Sherman's final position before the smoke took hold.. so I think I need to hold that Pz-IV in place for a bit and perhaps I'll be able to get a shot off at it once the smoke clears a bit. This image, a composite, shows the Sherman's original and final position. The reinforcements continue to stream towards the Hill objective (A). However, some of these troops are slated for my move around the smoke screen and will join with my other Infantry Platoon in getting a toe hold in the Villa (. Now that the smoke screen is fully developed and the Sherman has backed off, I am ordering my other infantry force toward the Villa, they will be joined by some of the units now heading towards the Hill as discussed above. I am also sending a Pz-IV and a Pz-III or two to join this force to try to get the Sherman on this side of the Villa.

Yep I definitely missed those threads John... I am a tactics and battlefield command guy, I don't really get into the detailed minutia as outlined in the threads you linked... as long as the battlefield effects are close to what I expect then I am fine with the simulation. Also, I trust Charles's work on gun effectiveness v armor... I know where the basis of the data comes from and it is from a most respected source. That being said do I think crews should be more prone to bail? Absolutely... I think after one or two penetrations a crew should be very likely to un-ass the vehicle... even after a few good solid hits (but no penetrations) there should be some slight chance, if there is a casualty then there should be no question.. that crew is going to bail and save themselves and attempt to save their injured crew member as well. So while I trust the gun v armor data in the game, I do not think the effects of AT fire are harsh enough on the psyche of armored vehicle crew members. That however is not the same thing as what you have been saying that the Shermans should have brewed up on the first penetration. Bil

Artillery wasn't called the God of War for nothing:

John, why so formal? Please, call me Bil. All of these penetrations were against the frontal armor of the Shermans... plus they were primarily also fired at an uphill target and I'm not sure but I would guess that there was some angle to each Sherman and that each round that hit and penetrated was not attacking the armor as if at 0°. All of this is taken into account by the game engine and I would bet that on some of these penetrations the Shermans might have only known they were hit, but not that they were penetrated.. its probable that some of these penetrations had so little momentum left that interior damage was minimal. This is in accordance with this quote from Charles from my previous BETA AAR: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1239443&postcount=303 Granted that was from 1944 and outlined Pz-IV v M4A3 primarily, but the data would be very similar for this fight as well against early Shermans. I do not think the armor improved that much until the Jumbo. As for the Sherman not brewing... for a frontal hit I think this is also a die roll, that would get higher if the Sherman is penetrated from the side or rear, where the real combustibles are located. I wouldn't count on setting a Sherman alight from a frontal penetration. If I could get a flank shot at one of ND's Shermans I bet it would die faster and would burn more easily. Kindly ask him to turn one of them 90 degrees for me and we'll find out. Bil

Affirmative. It was very late, but its falling.

There is only one left and it hasn't been seen since ND pulled it off the hill next to the Villa. I suspect it is hiding behind the Villa currently. The battlefield environment might be a tad too volatile for ND to bring that thing out to play again anytime soon... it is not the bogey monster it was when my Italians were trying to take it on. I expect ND to use the T-30 and whatever infantry he can pull together in an attempt to clear the Hill objective after my artillery stops falling. Yes it was.. but that squad is but a minor part of my force so its loss will have little to no impact on whether I can achieve my objective or not. I'm just thankful it was only the one truck. And now that Sherman is in trouble... if I can kill it it will be more than a fair trade IMO.

I hear ya John... I've had 6 penetrations on three different Shermans... only one of which resulted in a kill. Still I have faith that the numbers in game are accurate and reflect reality so have no complaints. Hister, roger that, I will maintain focus sir.

The Thirty Fifth Minute - Part Two I did not panic when ND's tank took out my truck last turn... I unloaded everyone else and ran for the gully. The Sherman bags a kubelwagon this turn, but I succeed in getting my Pz-IV into a good hull down firing position, spotting and putting a round on target. This composite image shows 1- firing, 2-round in flight, and 3-impact On the forgotten front, I really think ND missed my two missed shots at his Sherman last turn, as there was no reaction from that tank at all this turn as my Pz-IV put round after round into the beast. I'll let the pictures tell the story: What's that? Is the wind starting to change? I sure as hell hope so.

The Thirty Fifth Minute - Part One The Run for the Hill The Sherman ND attempted to counter-attack my run for the Hill last turn and got a new vision hole for his efforts, received another before disappearing behind his smoke screen. This tank continued to reverse throughout the turn and if it continues to do so it will come into the sight of my tanks on the other side of the map. My consolidation on the objective continues. I now have an Italian HQ unit, the original squad that made the dash, the R35 and the German Platoon HQ (which will disembark next turn). In addition I have two more German Infantry Squads on the way. It's going to be very hard for ND to push me out of this position now. Spotted ND's final Pack Howitzer... I am planning an attack on this gun in the next few turns, if my artillery doesn't get it. For now I just want to pin him so will be placing as much small arms fire on it as I can. One of my Grilles fires another round at the only part of the Villa that was visible through the dust.. hopefully ND still has troops on the front of this building and could feel it. This composite image shows 1- firing, 2-round in flight, and 3-impact

Sorry I mistyped here... I meant to say 1st Squad lost 2/3rds of its personnel... not 1st Platoon, it is basically out of the fight at this point. Sorry about that.

Thanks for the advice snake_eye, but please try to not be so specific when giving advice about this scenario... I appreciate any tactical advice you would like to give, but your advice does seem to be pretty close to a spoiler. As for what's on the other side of the hill.. I have a pretty good idea of what to expect... one T-30 (the second T-30 never reappeared after it moved off the ridge earlier in the battle), I am also expecting another half track that is part of the T-30 platoon.. there is one infantry platoon in the orchard that my OP saw earlier... I also expect there is more infantry as I saw some FOW icons for unidentified infantry a few turns ago on the back side of the Villa. Bil

The Thirty Fourth Minute - Part Zwei On the forgotten side of the map I moved a Pz-IV forward to try and get a few shots off at one of the Shermans ND has on the back ridge. They spotted in about 10 seconds and got two rounds off.. one was deflected by the trees and the second went long. There was no reaction from the Sherman so I have to believe my tank has yet to be spotted. Hopefully ND wasn't watching this flank and missed this. Alas, he served well and gave me good service, but my OP took some shrapnel from ND's linear barrage on the ridge next to the Orchard objective. This was my only casualty from that bombardment so far. How is it that when I do have a single casualty to fire like this (remember when I lost my observer?) in this scenario it always tends be a crucial link?

The Thirty Fourth Minute A very busy turn.. so A LOT of images to show... As I said in my Intel and Analysis post above I was afraid of this.. I'm only sorry I didn't watch the turn from every angle BEFORE I had given my orders I might have been better prepared for this. ND's Sherman came around the hill, saw my advancing infantry, fired and destroyed one of my trucks... as well as crippling 1st Platoon inside which lost 2/3rds of its personnel. The GOOD news is a) no other vehicles were shot at, and I have a Pz-IV coming to support them that should arrive next turn. That Sherman is in a great spot though... just far enough over the ridge that it can spot my infantry but is still out of sight from my hull down Pz-IVs. I can blame part of this on my smoke screen not fully being deployed last turn.. timing is everything in combat. One of my biggest fears was that ND would bring the Sherman that had been on the backside of the Villa to interdict my infantry running for the Hill. Well that did happen... then a Pz-IV spotted the bastard and drilled a hole through its hull. At the end of the turn it was popping smoke and reversing... so it lives yet, but hopefully its crippled. I was rejoicing when I saw this.. my 105 started to fall this turn! It is slightly off target, but not too much and its still hitting the Villa and the area surrounding it, so I think while that is going on I can count on ND not bringing the infantry he has in the Villa to counter-attack my force on the Hill.

Tell him to stop by... I still have a bone to pick with him about how he screwed up The Two Towers.

Intelligence Update and Analysis Scouring through the SPOT reports the following two bits of information, which could be very important to how events unfold, were discovered. With 3 seconds remaining in the turn this FOW tank icon popped up and then promptly disappeared. This is obviously ND's fourth Sherman that I had lost track of. That it quickly went away tells me it is probably moving. I believe it traveled down the path highlighted by the arrow and is probably heading straight towards where I have the blue arrows coming together. In this position, as indicated by the blue arrows, he could interdict both my Run for the Hill and the Infantry Platoon moving up in trucks through KT4. Luckily I will have 2 Pz-IVs in hull down positions that should be able to cover this entire ridge. Also with the Grille's both firing smoke next turn hopefully it will frustrate his targeting. On the other side of the Villa, this is where the MMG team stopped... I expected that this team (I think composed of two men, though only one was seen) would occupy the foxholes just to their front, but my scouts say otherwise. This tells me that he is hoping to ambush me as I advance. Interesting information... we'll see how it all pans out in the next turn or two.

LLF, I just wanted to say that is some amazing work.

So... weta_nz, how are those Hobbit movies coming along?

I think that timing should be thought of as approximate.. and you might get your rounds, early or late. That is as it should be for this period.