[BS?: "US Marines Are Locked In Battle With Syrian Troops"]

it's too bad things turned out as they did. Before the Iraq invasion, Syria was giving the US very valuable information about Al Qaeda:

"American intelligence and State Department officials have told me that by early 2002 Syria had emerged as one of the C.I.A.’s most effective intelligence allies in the fight against Al Qaeda, providing an outpouring of information that came to an end only with the invasion of Iraq."

"Nevertheless, after September 11th the Syrian leader, Bashar Assad, initiated the delivery of Syrian intelligence to the United States. The Syrians had compiled hundreds of files on Al Qaeda, including dossiers on the men who participated—and others who wanted to participate—in the September 11th attacks. Syria also penetrated Al Qaeda cells throughout the Middle East and in Arab exile communities throughout Europe. That data began flowing to C.I.A. and F.B.I. operatives.

Syria had accumulated much of its information because of Al Qaeda’s ties to the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic terrorists who have been at war with the secular Syrian government for more than two decades. Many of the September 11th hijackers had operated out of cells in Aachen and Hamburg, where Al Qaeda was working with the Brotherhood. In the late nineties, Mohammed Atta and other Al Qaeda members, including Mohammed Haydar Zammar, who is believed to have been one of the organization’s top recruiters, worked on occasion at a German firm called Tatex Trading. Tatex was infiltrated by Syrian intelligence in the eighties; one of its shareholders was Mohammed Majed Said, who ran the Syrian intelligence directorate from 1987 to 1994. Zammar is now in Syrian custody.

Within weeks of the September 11th attacks, the F.B.I. and the C.I.A, with Syria’s permission, began intelligence-gathering operations in Aleppo, near the Turkish border. Aleppo was the subject of Mohammed Atta’s dissertation on urban planning, and he travelled there twice in the mid-nineties. “At every stage in Atta’s journey is the Muslim Brotherhood,” a former C.I.A. officer who served undercover in Damascus told me. “He went through Spain in touch with the Brotherhood in Hamburg.”

Syria also provided the United States with intelligence about future Al Qaeda plans. In one instance, the Syrians learned that Al Qaeda had penetrated the security services of Bahrain and had arranged for a glider loaded with explosives to be flown into a building at the U.S. Navy’s 5th Fleet headquarters there. Flynt Leverett, a former C.I.A. analyst who served until early this year on the National Security Council and is now a fellow at the Saban Center at the Brookings Institution, told me that Syria’s help “let us thwart an operation that, if carried out, would have killed a lot of Americans.” The Syrians also helped the United States avert a suspected plot against an American target in Ottawa"

there's also this interesting tidbit:

"Robert Baer, a retired C.I.A. officer who served in Syria and is the author of a new book, “Sleeping with the Devil,” on Washington’s relationship with the Saudis, agreed that the Syrians had more to offer. “The Syrians know that the Saudis were involved in the financing of the Muslim Brotherhood, and they for sure know the names,” Baer told me."

from:

The Syrian Bet

[BS?: "US Marines Are Locked In Battle With Syrian Troops"]

based on various reports, substantiated or not, there seems to already be some sort of undeclared low-level war going on between the US and Syria.

Syria accuses US of launching lethal raids over its borders

"The charge follows leaks in Washington that the US has already engaged in military raids into Syria and is contemplating launching special forces operations on Syrian soil to eliminate insurgent networks before they reach Iraq."

Is US planning an Iraq-style 'regime change' in Syria?

"US forces have also been operating along the Syrian border since early 2003, and there have been numerous reports of clashes between US and Syrian forces on Syrian soil, as well as reports of US special operations forces operating inside Syria on select missions."

GI's and Syrians in Tense Clashes on Iraqi Border

"A series of clashes in the last year between American and Syrian troops, including a prolonged firefight this summer that killed several Syrians, has raised the prospect that cross-border military operations may become a dangerous new front in the Iraq war, according to current and former military and government officials."

"Some other current and former officials suggest that there already have been initial intelligence gathering operations by small clandestine Special Operations units inside Syria."

The Syrian Bet

"Sometime after midnight, Army helicopters and Bradley Fighting Vehicles attacked two groups of cars heading into Syria, triggering enormous explosions and fireballs that lit up the night sky. A gas station and nearby homes were destroyed. Task Force 20 sped across the border into Syria. Five Syrian guards were injured and flown to Iraq in American helicopters for medical treatment, and several other Syrians were seized, handcuffed, and detained before being released.

[U.S. Culture Corps]

Originally posted by Nidan1:

Nah, Confucious say; "Once you grab them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow"

I thought it was LBJ that said that

[U.S. Culture Corps]

I would think these guidelines are meant to be used in non-combat situation, where U.S. forces would not want to inadvertently offend or harm unarmed and non-threatening civilians.(i.e. winning of hearts and minds)

for example, this tidbit:

"To signal a vehicle to stop, place arm in front of you, palm down, and then move entire arm up and down. If you simply face the palm toward a person, it means hello, not stop, as in America."

could mean the difference between life and death for an Iraqi motorist.

In potential combat situations, I presume the gloves come off.

[the truth about CMSF and this board ;o)]

Stalin was a smart, ruthless politician. He would not have started a war, unless he was certain of winning. In 1945, the Soviet Union was in no shape to fight another war:

-they had lost between 20-40 million killed;

-about 30-40% of their pre-war industrial capacity was gone;

-the whole area of the USSR which had been fought over was devastated. In many towns, not one building was still standing and famine was rampant;

-only lend-lease supplies of weapons and food had prevented the USSR from collapsing and these ended as soon as the war was over;

-the Red Army was fighting a guerrilla war in western ukraine against anti-communist partisan groups;

-in eastern europe, most countries were ruled by coalition government, where the communist party was often in the minority. It would take a few more years to turn them into proper soviet puppet states; and

- the USSR did not have the atomic bomb.

1950 however, would have been the ideal time, alot of these problems were resolved and Western Europe had very few troops.

[U.S. Culture Corps]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

What's the funny part?

I meant "cute" in terms of interesting. I'm pleasantly surprised to see that U.S. forces realize the importance of being aware of cultural differences, something which is often sorely lacking in Canada.

Michael, if you ever come to Montreal, I will be glad to give you a guided tour of Montreal's famed fleshpots.

[ November 23, 2005, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: JC_Hare ]

[U.S. Culture Corps]

Slightly off topic, but I thought it was cute:

U.S. Culture Corps

The following are excerpts from a handout that accompanied a weeklong course on Iraq's customs and history given to 25,000 U.S. Marines prior to their spring 2004 deployment to Anbar province in Iraq (the "Sunni triangle").[1] The course was devised by the Marine Corps Division Schools based in Camp Pendleton, California. –Editors

Greetings

Handshakes given at introduction and when leaving. Handshakes may be loose or limp wristed. Iraqis will hold the handshake for longer than U.S. Do not pull away. Females may just touch the fingertips, but generally no contact between men and women.

If Arabs do not touch someone they meet, they either do not like the person or are re­straining themselves because they think the person is unaccustomed to being touched.

To kiss the forehead, nose, or right hand of the person shows extreme respect.

Courtesy is valued and is not a weakness.

General rule: Treat every Iraqi as if he were a colonel.

Physical Contact

Touching among same sex is not considered homosexual. Good friends often hold hands as a sign of friendship.

They keep no distance between individuals, even when sitting.

If you move back they will just close the dis­tance again.

Gestures

To signal a vehicle to stop, place arm in front of you, palm down, and then move entire arm up and down. If you simply face the palm toward a person, it means hello, not stop, as in America.

"That's enough, thank you"—patting heart a few times.

The thumbs-up used to be obscene, but chil­dren are accepting it and using it. They also know the thumbs-down.

The okay sign that Americans make is con­sidered bad. It is an evil eye.

Hospitality

Arabs are very generous and will do anything possible to be good hosts. You may be judged on how well you accept their hospitality.

Gifts may be given when you arrive at a meeting, etc., but are not important. The host will not make a fuss over it and will never open it in front of you. A good gift has no practical value and little commercial value; a fancy gift is like saying to the recipient, "I knew you couldn't afford this, so I bought it for you."

Always accept beverages or anything offered to you.

Food is given in large proportions. Coffee being served means: meeting over.

Respect

Respect and courtesy show strength and masculinity.

Look into eyes (no sunglasses to be worn when speaking to Iraqis).

Show no fear, stand your ground.

Loyalty is important, so speaking badly about your unit, commanding officer, or America will cause you to lose their respect.

Family is the cornerstone of Arab society. Arabs value family honor, and their personal ac­tions and achievements reflect the entire family.

Women hold the honor of the family, and therefore you should not stare or try to interact with them. A simple verbal greeting will suffice.

Do not ask men how their women are doing; instead, ask how the family is.

Showing family pictures is a good way to open relations. Arab women do not show arms or legs, and a picture of your wife in shorts will say to an Arab that you do not respect women.

Problems can often be solved by talking to the senior member of the group and asking him what he would do. For example, if your Iraqi students are falling asleep in a patrolling class, ask him what he would do if "hypothetically" his students didn't pay attention. The problem will probably go away quickly.

The group will set the tone/pace, not indi­vidual accomplishments. Arabs do not want to outdo the other guy, so they may hold back to stay with the group.

Do not shame or humiliate a man in public. Shaming a man will cause him and his family to be anti-Coalition.

The most important qualifier for all shame is for a third party to witness the act. If you must do something likely to cause shame, remove the person from the view of others.

Shame is given by placing hoods over a detainee's head. Avoid this practice.

Placing a detainee on the ground or putting a foot on him implies you are God. This is one of the worst things we can do.

Arabs consider the following things unclean:

-Feet or soles of feet.

-Using the bathroom around others. Unlike Marines, who are used to open-air toilets, Arab men will not shower/use the bathroom together.

-Bodily fluids (because of this they love tissue paper).

Law

Spilling blood in a mosque is considered the highest crime.

The penalty for rape is death.

Reality

May exaggerate to sound more appealing. Arabs do not believe in cause and effect but rather in isolated incidents or the will of Allah. Speeding on a winding road did not cause the wreck, Allah willed it to happen, etc.

Small problems with a plan will mean terminating the entire plan.

Arabs perceive problems as someone's plot to make their life more unpleasant. We may view this as paranoia.

Miscellaneous

Arabs make group decisions. Do not try to force an individual to make a decision without consulting the group first. If forced to make a quick decision without consulting with others, they feel no commitment to abide by it.

Safety is a foreign concept (everything happens because of Allah).

Amount of facial hair is considered directly proportional to religious faith.

They never forget a wrong done to them or a good deed done for them.

this is my favorite: "General rule: Treat every Iraqi as if he were a colonel."

from:

US Culture Corps

[sniper explodes ATGM]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

"...it would'nt make any sense that it was a ATGM."

I'm reminded of an old old TV news report from the Israel/Lebanon border. The reporter was going on about "Katyushas" being fired over the border into settlements, but right there on the ground was an unexploded ancient Sagger wire-guided missile. Basically, anything that crossed the border that went BOOM was being called a Katyusha rocket back then.

Journalists are notoriously unreliable. The Israeli press, these days, usually refers to anything fired into Israel as a Kassam (or Qassam) rocket, which is why I was surprised by the reference to a ATGM in the story.

[sniper explodes ATGM]

Originally posted by Sergei:

You don't need four men to carry an ATGM, either.

Yes you do, two men to carry the bloody thing and two men to give moral support.

[sniper explodes ATGM]

Akd, you would'nt need a four man team to carry a RPG. They were probably looking for a spot to fire the rocket from Lebanon into Israel, although I agree that it would'nt make any sense that it was a ATGM. It might have been a Kassam homemade rocket, which would partially explain why it exploded.

Is it me or are we running out of interesting topics to talk about? We need Steve to release another juicy tidbit about the game.

[sniper explodes ATGM]

I was reading a news story about a IDF sniper who foiled a terrorist attack when this paragraph caught my attention:

IDF paratrooper Corporal David Markovitch foiled a would-be attack when he killed four Hizbullah members carrying an anti-tank missile in the village of Ghahar near South Lebanon.

Markovitch, a trained sniper, aimed at the rocket, which exploded, killing three of the terrorists. He then shot the fourth, whose body was taken back across the lines by other Hizbullah members. The IDF was holding the other three bodies.

I did'nt know you could explode a ATGM with rifle fire. That would be neat to see in CMSF.

full link here:

paratrooper sniper becomes hero

[Vehicle Damage Model]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Back on topic...

That is something we also don't hear often around here.

[Vehicle Damage Model]

Originally posted by Flammenwerfer:

Remember, the Syrians will have God on their side, and U.S. friendly fire.

Tawakalna 'ala Allah!

(translation: In God, we trust...everyone else pays cash)

[Vehicle Damage Model]

The Syrians are rapidly running out of weapons:

-their Air Force has been abolished;

-their tanks will fall easy prey to M1A tanks and Javelin missiles;

-their artillery will be less flexible and responsive than US artillery and will probably have a high percentage of duds;

-their Anti-tank missiles and RPGs will fail to fire or detonate on impact, because they can't be bothered to store them properly or don't know which way to point them;

that only leaves them with small arms, machine guns, mortars and booby traps :eek: ...but it won't be a Turkey shoot

..but I don't care, I will fight the Infidels even if it's just with a toothpick, if the finns can do it, so can the Syrians.

[Vehicle Damage Model]

Steve,

Are the reports you mentioned about Syrian weapon failures available online and if yes, could you post a link?

the only thing I found is what I posted earlier:

"...Syria’s limitations will be further compounded by its problems in absorbing new equipment. These include the endemic corruption. They also include its politicized and compartmented command structure, inadequate military pay, poor manpower management, poor technical training, and poor overall training - particularly in realistic combat exercises and aggressor training. Syrian forces have inadequate combat and service support, equipment for night and poor weather warfare, long-range sensors and targeting systems, and mobile rapidly maneuverable logistics, recording, and combat repair capability. While individual Syrian officers have shown a keen understanding of many of these problems, Syria has never taken effective action to deal with them.

from here:

web page

[ November 21, 2005, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: JC_Hare ]

[Vehicle Damage Model]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

This is one thing the Syrians will have problems with. Some reports show that they can expect many of their missiles to fail, either to fire or to detonate correctly. Poor quality (RPG HE rounds), poor long term storage (Milan missile systems), and poor maintainence records (heavy vehicles) resulting from edemic shortcomings (poor funding) means that failures will be more common for the Syrian side than for the US side.

While I personally think duds are a good idea, we are dealing with an area which is totally guesswork, unless anyone has a study on this area. Are we talking about minor annoyance (i.e 1-5%), major annoyance (i.e 10-20%) or major malfunction? (i.e 30-50% of firings).

I would think a missile failure rate somewhere between minor and major annoyance would be about right. Anything higher would seriously neuter the Syrian side.

[ November 20, 2005, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: JC_Hare ]

[the truth about CMSF and this board ;o)]

Originally posted by Madmatt:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DASman:

Yeah, Mike, just got a nice new contract on GIC, I'm laughing all the way to the bank....

E

Wow, if that doesn't illustrate the core differences in motivations between why we make games and why he does, nothing will...

Madmatt

p.s. Anyway, my checks are direct deposited so I do all my laughing right here at my desk! </font>

[Stryker units in action: media of the day]

very nice photos.

[Stryker units in action: media of the day]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

They're using them right now; one of our Warrant Officers is over there and sent a bunch of pics. They're definitely wearing them.

thanks, any chance we could see those pics?

[Stryker units in action: media of the day]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

c) camouflage patterns really don't make much of a difference despite the hype, IMO, anyway; you get dirty in the field within 12 hours and start to blend in naturally in any event.

I agree, after all the Israeli Defence Forces still use the same plain olive-green uniforms.

I am still wondering why the Canadian Army would officially approve a desert version of the CADPAT uniforms if they are not going to use them. The official site:

CADPAT arid regions

states that the Army would stockpile 3,000 uniforms which would be used for "specified operations".

[Stryker units in action: media of the day]

Steve, Michael, when I made my post, I just knew some Equipment Grog would find a technical fault in my nice sentiment, but I am in no mood to argue. Have a nice day!

Michael, do you have any feedback on how well the temperate CADPAT pattern is doing in Afghanistan terrain? Also, do you know why the Canadian military is not issuing uniforms in the CADPAT arid pattern to canadian troops deploying over there?

[Stryker units in action: media of the day]

Very nice post Michael, we get so few stories about how our boys are doing in Afghanistan. It makes me mad that canadian soldiers are forced to spend their own pay on equipment, especially now that the federal government is forecasting a cumulative surplus of CAN.$86 Billion over the next five years

[Close Air Support in CM:SF]

It's an important topic. A stryker brigade would rely heavily on air and artillery support to get it's mission accomplished.

CAS should be an important component of CMSF. There was already a wealth of information in the UI thread, but some questions are not clear, such as:

-who can call in airstrikes? everyone or just dedicated FAC units. Perhaps there should be two level, with regular units being able to call in basic strikes while dedicated FAC units would have more options, accuracy and quicker response time.

-what about friendly fire? the US armed forces keep trying to minimise it, but it's still a fact of life. How will it be handled in CMSF?

C3K, regarding your comment about Marine CAS, my understanding is that Marines do everything better than the other branches on a smaller budget, they are sort of like the Finns in that way

[UI Request to BF.C]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

For Syrians we will likely simulate them differently. Far more restrictive in terms of doctrine and capabilities.

Yet another plot to hamstring the Syrian forces.

The sense I get is that the player will have alot more options and flexibility in terms of artillery and air strikes, sounds very interesting.

[UI Request to BF.C]

Originally posted by c3k:

Well, more than just flying machine guns. Depending on the model; 20mm, 40mm, 105mm weaponry. Of course, all that linked into high-tech spotting and targeting systems. Kind of fun to pick a window through which to send a 105 round....

Sorry, I should have said high-tech flying heavy machineguns...

Originally posted by Battlefront:

Anybody with a radio can call for support, be it air or artillery. FSOs (Fire Support Officers) simply do it inherently better and with more flexible options. The Stryker Rifle Company has a dedicated FIST (Fire Support) Team in a specially designed Stryker. Each Rifle Platoon has a FO assigned to it as well. There are plenty of options for calling in support effectively.

If I read this correctly, it means any american or syrian unit with a radio, which means all regular army units, will be able to call in air (us only) and artillery strikes (US and Syria) on any targets it can see, this will have a big impact on gameplay.