SgtMuhammed

Was this supposed to be a real scenario or is it just a gunnery test? Spoiler alert.... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I suffered no losses and no Soviet unit got within 1000 meters of the VLs. My only worry was that I would run out of rounds. It seems to be a feel good scenario for the Germans and a no win for the Soviets (I am now going to play it from the Soviet side so I'll let you know). If the situation was really this lopsided then the Germans would have won with about 100 Panthers. [ January 06, 2003, 05:21 AM: Message edited by: Sgtgoody ]

Wives! Mine just doen't get it when I scream "PANZER" and try to drive the Passat into a hull down position.

Well lost my wife and kids and forgot to go to work but I did kill that KV! Forget whatever you learned from other games and enjoy.

Fighting the Germans here in Hohenfels as OPFOR I had a German infantry squad chasing my BMP for about 2 miles before they finally ticked me off enough to kill them. Persistent guys those Germans.

Definitly, in 41 HC was still more of a hey neat thing rather than a gotta have thing.

Setting AA in woods will severly restrict its LOS. Yes it will be able to see in a narrow cone straight up but not out. What you end up with is about a 2 second window of fire that will only work if the enemy flies directly over the AA unit. The best place to put them is in the open or in scattered trees but shielded by other terrain from the front lines. Heavy flack wasn't responsive enough to take on fighters and was really only effective against heavy bombers when used in mass. They were a strategic weapon rather than a tactical weapon. In the tactical setting of CM they are there in purely a ground fire role.

There are no specific units in the game but you can always make them yourself.

Believe it or not it is possible in RL as well. I have seen tanks try to go through what they thought were dry puddles only to find that the mud was a lot deeper than they thought. It is real embarasing to have to call for help on a nice sunny day because you got your track stuck . While towing in combat is possible, it normally takes so long to get into position, get hooked up, and then get towed out going again that most battles would be over before you could recover a vehicle. My prefered methode in the game is to curse a lot as well. I have found ways that reduce bogging but no sure fire way to unbog. This goes for RL as well.

Reading this an interesting historical simularity just popped into my head. During one of the India-Pakistan wars the Pakistanis were moving through corn or something (maybe bamboo) that was taller than the tanks. The Indians were above and wasted the Pakis by firing at the head of the wakes. The Indian tanks never saw the Pakistani tanks but killed nearly all of them. It would be helpful to find out if the difference between cover and concealment is taken into account with hull down.

I don't know if the 88 came about the same way but the reason the U.S. went with the 90 for its AA gun was that that was the size limit for a round that could be easily handled by the gun's crew. Any heavier and rate of fire would have been affected.

One thing to remember is not to over estimate the power of HE or under estimate the value of cover. It takes a really big round to make an appreciable hole in the ground. Tank HE rounds are normally contact fused and so explode as soon as they hit something fairly solid. Even a small berm (4 or 5 feet thick) can provide effective cover if the tank keeps hitting the front of it (well for a while at least). Prepared positions are even more resiliant. This is why artillery fired against dug in targets will have a large number of time delayed rounds to dig in before exploding and hopefully causing fortifications to collapse. Tanks just don't have this kind of variety with their HE. I don't know if anyone has tested it in the game but the best thing to use against fortifications in real life is a mortar. They have a high rate of fire and high enough trajectory to enable them to land inside trenches and positions without overhead cover.

One thing a lot of people don't realize is just how easy it is for a tank to get stuck or, even worst, to roll over. I have seen M60s roll on a moderate hill from running over an unfilled foxhole. I have almost rolled an M113 while running over a tree. My point is that fighting positions other than hasty foxholes (what we called shallow graves) are a genuine hazard for armored vehicles. Even if you don't turn over, suddenly hitting a hole can break springs and roadwheels or throw track :mad: which can spell death on the battlefield. Especially if you have a bunch of PO'd infantry running around. Most tanks will avoid running over terrain likely to cause them trouble if they can help it. After all why should they risk damage to their vehicle when they can sit back and lob HE. While tanks will definitly squash anyone foolish enough to stand in their way, they will not normally go out of their way to run down a crunchy (although they do say infantry make the best track grease ) and risk getting nailed by something bigger. For the infantry getting over-run by tanks is not necessarily the same as getting run-over by tanks. If any of you have seen the movie "Stalingrad," there is a scene where a T34 runs over and then pivot stears on a German infantryman. All the while there are AT armed infantry and a PAK 40 in close proximity. In real life that 34 would have been meat.

I really think CM strikes an almost perfect balance with its graphics. They are good enough to enhance game play but not take away from it. I have played enough games where every unit is a piece of art and about as intelligent as a picture. What I would like to see is soldiers doing real soldier things when you zoom in. You know, making coffee, sleeping, drinking from canteens. It would make me feel like a squad leader again.

I know it states somewhere in the manual that tanks will fire lesser rounds before they break out the silver bullets so that they are sure they have the range. During the games where I make it a point to pay attention I don't really remember a lot of special rounds being fired.

I'll see your "BUMP" and rais you one more "BUMP."

I was an 11B and was always jelous that you guys got to play with the big fireworks more than I did. I didn't envy you having to carry them around though. Just a quick question, do all 12 series build things when they get bored? Our guys were always building some funky new obstical in the field when they had nothing better to do.

Exactly. You can fire a shotgun at someone hiding behind a brick wall all day and all you will do is scratch the wall. Cannister is a close in defensive weapon (although like anything else it can be used offensivly). The pellets don't have the mv or the mass to penetrate much more than clothing and flesh, especially at more than a couple hundred meters. Plus there is a minimum range of a few meters before you get a good spread of the shot. If you fire it too close you will ruin one guys day but his buddies will take you out. Remember, quys in a foxhole are in just that a hole. A standard foxhole is at least sholdier deep which puts it at about 4 feet give or take. If you duck down you now have several feet of undisturbed dirt between you and the bad guys. Kind of hard to penetrate unless you can blow it up, hense the HE. [ January 04, 2003, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Sgtgoody ]

I tend to go with default settings for units and trees unless I need to see something specific. For movement formations I tend to have the squads in line with the HQ and any heavy weapons in trail. For vehicle movement I am not nearly as organized but I try to have at least one manuever squad in front of the HQ and support units.

Rommel, France, 40.

Unfortunatly, or fortunatly depending on how you look at it, history is full of wars where the side with the tactical advantage looses because of poor strategy (2nd Punic, WWI, WWII, Vietnam, to name a few).

While I think the attached squad can take advantage of the longer range LOS of the HQ I don't think it transfers to the squads in and of themselves. What I mean is that while the Lt. might be able to look through his binos and say "Hey sarge they're by that big tree," I don't think he is going to be running around with extra pairs to hand to his squad leaders. At least that is what I think. BFC?

Not normally! There is a story during the fighting in the Battle of the Bulge of a M8 crew taking out a Panther with a single shot that hit a weak spot in the armor. The only ones more surprised than the crew were the Germans! :eek: In war nothing is for sure and even that rule leaves room for doubt.

During one of the first encounters with the T34 the 17th Pz Division lost several PIIIs and 37mm AT guns as well as a headquarters to a single T34. The 34 was only stopped by a shot from a 105 that it had overlooked.

If you ever climb around in an armored vehicle you notice areas of dead space (unless you climb into a Leopard II, I don't know how those guys even breath). Not a lot but they are there. It is very possible to shoot through the armor but send a shot through empty space. Or through a piece of equipment that will not affect the fighting ability of the tank (through the toolbox for instance). While these would have to be counted as damage and fixed in real life or in a more strategic game they have no effect in the CM frame of reference. Think of it as being stabbed along the meaty part of the arm. It will hurt and require attention but will not immediatly put you down.

Let us not forget the baddest boys on the block, the American First Special Service Force. The Italians had one of the best naval commando groups of the war. The Germans also had the Friedenthal Hunting Groups commanded by Otto Skorzeny.