SgtMuhammed

...it is alot like an accident on the highway. You don't want to look and hold up traffic but you always find yourself gawking just like all the other idiots out there. Still it was hard to actually believe...

Unfortunatly that is exactly how it happens. New officers are given their shake and bake training and whamo they are leading troops. Many armies even shake and bake their NCOs. Your experienced cadre tends to get overshadowed by this influx of newness as even the best leader needs time to get everyone on the same sheet of music. The easiest way is to spend an extended time training together. Unfortunatly this isn't always an option so you end up with the faster but more dangerous methode of simulation using 1 to 1 scale with targets that fire back, IOW combat.

Does this mean there are unconfirmed Swedes on this board? The thought is too frightening to contemplate. Welcome lucky 12000. Take Seanachia's advice about the General Forum unless you want to revel in missinformation. At least here you can (sometimes) find arguments based on fact. [ January 31, 2003, 04:09 AM: Message edited by: Sgtgoody ]

A couple of very important points have been made on both sides of this discussion. For one the T34 was not a super tank. It was vulnerable and could be overcome by superior tactics. More importantly, however, it was PERCIEVED as a super tank by the people to whom it mattered, the ones fighting it. Yes the turret had vulnerable spots on the turret face that were improved upon and could be exploited, but the fact that the tank inspired such fear and respect in the Germans shows that it was no easy thing to exploit these weaknesses. German accounts do not talk lightly of facing groups or even single T34s. Instead you find accounts of single 34s rampaging through groups of PIIIs and being taken out by lucky hits by 105 field guns. Not something you would expect if taking them out was a simple as many seem to believe. CMBB is a game, but its main claim to fame is that it is more than that. If you want feel good playability then go play something else. By self proclamation this is a simulation. This means that we can expect to get historically accurate results for historical situations. For the most part this it true. A slugfest between Panthers and Sherman 75s will be one sided as it was historically. Artillery is slow to change targets making the preplanned barrage as important as it actually was, and a slew of others. Unfortunatly in the modeling of the 34 in 1941 CMBB falls short. It is nearly impossible to simulate the results that gave the Germans such a respect for this tank. Remember that it was seriously proposed that the Germans should start manufacturing their own. This points to the effectivness of the machine regardless of its actual problems. Look at the tanks the Germans adopted from their couquests. If they had a policy of adopting anything that was availible why were there not battalions of Somua's or Char B's or Polish light tanks. Instead they adopted only designs that were as or more effective than their own, P35s and 38s for example. The simple fact is that CMBB turns the revolutionary 34 into a generic allied tank and it suffers for this conversion. Why is the small two man turret as easy to hit as the large turret of other tanks? Why is it so easy to get "flat" hits on the front of that turret? Why is it so easy to kill them with ahistorical situations and conditions? These are serious deficiences in the modelling of this vehicle and I hope they will be addressed. CMBB represents a quantum leap above other so-called tactical simulations but it is not perfect. Acknowledging this fact can only make it better and doesn't detract from the quality of the game as it is. James

We usually save the stupid responses for the stupid threads. Look around you will find them.

I think Soddball put so much fog into his scenario that it is seeping into all the others. A bar brawl with multi ton vehicles armed with high velocity cannon. You can't ask for more than that. GRRRRRR :mad: :mad: :mad: (because I felt it was needed)

Yeah, don't sweat it man. The non-grogs are saying "what gun" while the grogs are wondering "what girl?" Something for everyong. By the way, that was the worst part about being a machine gunner, the women really dig your big gun. It could be quite distracting. [ January 29, 2003, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: Sgtgoody ]

The best way I found to get the AI to attack is to put them close to the VLs. The AI has a tendency to want to mass his forces. If you spread them out in the vicinity of separate VLs then you can overcome this. If not the the AI will tend to push everyone into the same cover and then advance on one VL. You also have to give the AI favorable ground conditions. It is absolutly horrible at dealing with bad ground. If you think that by making the ground muddy it will force him to the roads then be prepared for the AI vehicles to never make it to the fight. Also try not to put too many barriers in the way (woods, pines, rough, etc) or AI vehicles will get stuck.

I yomped with an RA unit here in Hohenfels, there seemed to be a lot of beer involved although I don't remember it very well. Then again any time I trained with the Brits there seemed to be a lot of beer involved.

Wow, now that's high praise!

While most WWII AFVs couldn't neutral steer (move the tracks in opposite directions) I am not so sure about pivot steer (called by other names as well) which involved holding one track still while the other drove the vehicle around. On the M113 this is accomplished by a set of large disk brakes. I don't know any exact figures but the system is simple enough to have been in widespread use during WWII. This would give a much better turn time than what we see now. As for AT guns one must remember that once a target moves out of the arc of the aiming mechanism the crew has to actually move the gun to a new heading. The exception to this being the 88 with its swivel mount. For the PAK 40 on down the crew had to pick up the ends of the carriage and turn the whole thing around. Not a fast process.

The earlier discussion about foxholes has the order of construction backwards. First you build hasty positions which are the ones modelled in the game. Second you make them into real fighting positions with overhead cover and such. Then you connect them with communication trenches and then those get expanded into fighting trenches. If you start trying to build trenches you leave yourself open to a sudden attack which you will have to defend with a short stretch of half dug trenchline. There needs to be a defensive option for fighting positions to come between trenches and foxholes. Of course these would only be availible to a force on the defensive but it would more realistally reflect the way troops dig in. Also, using trenches as a road block is a decent way of sumulating a hasty tank ditch. Fortifications in general seems to be something that deserves a good look in future CM engines. [ January 29, 2003, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Sgtgoody ]

Becket You're on bud. I'll even take the Sovs. Setup is winging your way now. Don't burn delicate hands on the flaming TNT. GRRRRRRRR :mad: :mad: :mad:

I saw a report on some Russian farmers who still use wood-gas tractors. Not very efficient but hey you do what you have to. Another quick point, Ethanol is still there. After all the hype died down the government just started putting it in gasoline and not making a big deal about it. Most modern diesel engines can run on nearly anything that will burn with a few adjustments. The M1 doesn't even need to be adjusted but it doesn't get very good milage on, say, red wine.

You gotta watch those Italian tanks. If the crew used the cigarette lighter and the toaster oven at the same time they tended to brew up. Easy to forget and well modelled in CMBB.

Remember Soddball: Friends don't let friends marry warthogs. Maybe she does some neat trick with lawn chairs and toast. Ok, I am getting bored with the namby games I have going right now. One of you chicken spit maggots needs to send me some real TNT. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Viv la Roy! Long live the King!

Strange, my 41-42 turrets say NEE while my later war ones say ICKY ICKY ICKY PTANGO ZOOP POINK .

...but I digress. Shaking my head to clear the visions of Koalas and Yalka et al, I pulled my eyes off the clouds and slowly...

Good hit! That means you knocked the AI loopy. If you hit it again the crew will come out and do the Mambo on the top of the bunker. [ January 27, 2003, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Sgtgoody ]

Yeah, against a heavy bridge you had better have a lot, and I mean a lot, of firepower or you aren't going to kill it during a game. The difference between a medium and a heavy bridge is incredible.

Did you notice that they used the Zulu war song in "Gladiator?"

...completely forgetting the ceiling fan overhead. As the shredded plastic cascaded around him a look of panic spread on Yalka's face as he shouted "Oh....

Not unless the bearings were bad. I guess you could put little grunts and squeeks as the gunner cranks that sucker around. Even a powered turret doesn't make much noise, certainly not enough to warrent inclusion in the game.

Now you know why I stick to Das Bild. They don't even attempt to be "insightful" and they have better looking women.