Jump to content

BTS - Can you please work with the new NVidia ref drivers?


Recommended Posts

BTS - Please work on the compatability with FSAA and the latest Official NVidia drivers v12.41

The game looks 100% better with FSAA, and I get garbled text with it on.

Asus A7V

256 Meg PC133

AMD 1.33 Gig

SBLive

GeForce 2 Ultra 64 - Drivers ver 12.41

Bios and Via 4-in-1 are up to date as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 51
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Actually I had not played CM for severa months. Last ime I played was with much older drivers, possiblt the original Det. 3 drivers or earlier. FSAA worked with them OK. So I guess I will run a res of 1600x1200 until they get this fixed. I sure hope Charles doesn't ignore this with NVidia being so popular.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a rule of thumb we do not make changes to the game to support one set of drivers or the other. This is made even more clear when you look at the fact that most users of Nvidia cards (like me for instance) have ZERO problems with their cards.

Nvidia (and other video companies) are notorious for releasing many driver updates with features which either cut corners, have features not fully implemented or that just plain don't work. Combat Mission was designed and coded to be compliant with the standards as set down by Microsoft for a Direct 3D game. Video card makers, with regards to their drivers, want to squeeze out every once of performance though, and as such often implement features in their driver sets which break those rules.

For that reason, and I can give dozens of examples, if you see graphic anomalies in the game it is normally attributal to faulty drivers. Newer is not always better in the field of video drivers. Sometimes these reference drivers do help alleviate problems, sometimes they do not.

Recently I have seen people asking for us to release some sort of Nvidia specific patch or fix, but the fact of the matter is that the issue is not universal to Nvidia owners, doesn't affect all Operating Systems and seems to be related to a feature that the drivers themselves initialize, in this case Full Screen Anti-Aliasing. FSAA is being performed by the drivers, not the game.

I saw the exact same issues with all the Beta pre-Det 3 drivers and Nvidia eventually got their act together and with the 6.50 drivers they got it working correctly at least on 95/98/ME. These new 12.41 drivers are now undergoing those same earlier growing pains it seems.

Basically, when Microsoft laid down the principals and requirements of a Direct 3D API, they did so in the hopes that software and hardware devolopers would follow those guidelines and reduce any sort of incompatability. We did our part, sadly, not all the hardware companies have followed our example and even though these new 12.41 drivers are WHQL certified (and the regulations to get that certification are sorta a joke as well) they still have their issues.

Now, having said that, we do not want to leave people who have issues in a bind. I will continue to investigate the issues and pass our findings along (yes, we have been in contact with Nvidia about some issues reported). I will also try and help people case by case (which I and others here have always done) as well as give out any updated info I have on which drivers perform well and which do not depending on OS and Video Card.

But let me be clear, we do not release card/driver specific hacks to make something work when it isn't broke on our end.

**By the way, a quick survey of the newgroups shows that Combat Mission is NOT the only game suffering from odd behavior with these new reference drivers. There are also newer 12.60 beta drivers that are floating around that *apparently* have resolved some other issues with these new reference drivers (havent tested them with CM as yet though but I will).**

Thanks for you time...

Madmatt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Matt.

I tried the FSAA with beta drivers 10.80, 11.01, and all v12's with the same results. So I've been trying hard to see if I can find a break. But, I'd have to go back to the original Det 3's to fix the FSAA in Combat Mission. The game looks wonderful of course, just the text is garbled and unreadable. Also I tried every texture alignment adjustment, but that didn't help.

Matt, I have a real standard system. All drivers up-to-date, Win98SE, Directx 8.0a (non-beta), and system is real clean (no resident programs).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just finished testing the 12.41 and 12.60 drivers on my Win ME system and I see the same issue (blurred and misplaced text when FSAA is enabled). It's all related to FSAA and reminds me of something I saw back in the pre Det. 3 days when Nvidia was popping beta drivers like candy. The evntually resolved it when they released 6.50.

I will let Nvidia know what I am seeing but due to the nature of the issue I don't *think* it's anything that Charles can fix ( he knows about this issue as well though and we shall see), and the fact that it works fine on 6.50 (and many of the later betas) tells me that it might be something that Nvidia changed in their latest driver set.

Now, another concern for me are the reported issues with Windows 2000 and I have heard that the older 3.68 drivers apparently work very well there but I havent been able to test that as yet. I will though.

So, let me just reiterate, we are listening, and we will do what we can to resolve reported issues but there is only so much we can do if the problem turns out to be one with a driver set as this one *seems* to be. If it turns out that the problem is in fact on our end (and there have been times in the past when it was) then we will make the changes neccesary to get the problem resolved.

Madmatt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This strikes me as the tail wagging the dog. Since when does a game company tell the most advanced video chip company where to get off? I just built an AMD 1200 Thunderbird System on an MSI 6341 Motherboard. I installed the GeForce 3. Whenever I try to play Combat Mission, I get to the select resolution screen, and my system locks up. This does not happen on any other game that I have. Therefore, I must conclude that the problem lies with CM. I have enjoyed CM on my previous system with a Voodoo3. In fact, I recommended the game to a number of my friends, who bought it. However, I am not going to use yesterday's video card for the sole purpose of playing one game. Come on Battlefront. Make peace with Nvidia and fix the program.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I think it is up to the developer to find solutions for the driver problems, but they should not have change their code to work around a buggy driver. The driver should be fixed. Hopefully we can convince Nvidia that this is a problem, and have them resolve it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Realistically, NVidia is not going to make changes for their driver because a tiny developer asks them to. Chances are they will tell BTS that it is a DX8-Driver issue (that it is not their fault, but BTS's code), and they need to update their game code to make it compatible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With all due respect to BTS, I think it is not nice blame nVidia. There are literally hundreds of games out there that work perfectly with 12.41 drivers.

And even if there is a bug in nVidia drivers, that means that everyone has a workaround.

This issue has been drugging for too long, and sooner or later you have to resolve it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I now have three other games that are having a problem with 12.41. Not sure if it is directx or the driver itself.

Why would I expect BTS to fix it and then have to re-fix it when a newer version of the driver comes out? Doesn't make sense for them to do that.

Rune

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 12.xx drivers are buggy as hell. Example:

Urban Terror Mod for Quake 3A, 1600 x 1200 32bit everything, max detail. 6.50 driver on a GF2U: with FSAA maxed, 55-65 FPS, same settings, 12.41 drivers, 5-7 fps, with FSAA off, the frame rate jumps to around 50-55.

Others ahve reported problems with these drivers also. I went back to the 6.50s.

System: P3-933 w/ 512 megs of SDRAM.

So, IMHO, it is not Combat Mission that is at fault, but Nvidia.

My 3 credits woth.

Doug

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you guys kidding me? Nvidia makes some of the worst driver updates out there. You can not blame BTS for Nvidia again screwing the pooch. I am running the 6.5s because I am not going to bother to waste my time beta testing for Nvidia. I paid for the card I dont give my time out for free.

Anywho I am glad that BTS has acknlowedged the issues with Win2K smile.gif I thought I was the only one that gets garbled text in Win2K. It works like a charm in Win98

Gen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello everyone i think i found a workaround. but im not positive it will work with eveyone's system? It seems that if i delete the perf file in CM folder and let it detect the card it works(No crashes) but when i exit out and start it agine the game crashes.Im useing microsofts beta DX 8.1 as well.But like i said for some reason if i delete the file every time i play i have no crashes.Its a pain to keep doing this but it works for me for some reason

[ 07-01-2001: Message edited by: Incubus ]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am running a Nvidia GeForce 2 MX on Win98 and I have also been struck by the "maybe I should clean my glases" syndrome (blurred text) after installing latest drivers.

I agree that this is most likely not something BT can do anything about... Nvidia are infamous for stuff like this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I have a similar prob....

I'm using a Win 2000 system with a Gforce2 MX card with nvidia's latest drivers and DX8.

The CMBO opening picture has like a black spray patterm through it and I cannot read the text clearly/or at all in the scenario select or description areas.

It seems the text also does not refresh when you scroll so you get double/tripple text overlaps.

Is this the issue you're discussing?

Cheers

Craig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they are in denial actually Aussie. The drivers work perfectly for me in every game I have (including FSAA) except for Combat Mission. Heck it even works good (with and without FSAA) in WWII On-Line. That game is buggier than a Florida Swamp. So if THAT game works, then CM sure as hell should. Of course BTS is conveniently blaming NVidia...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ummm, my name is Jeff smile.gif Anyway, if I disable FSAA it works fine, but the game needs FSAA desparately to look decent. Since the graphics are not the hog of the game, FSAA gives me no performnace hit (just battle size does).

I could understand a driver argument against ATI or 3dfx, but NVidia??? I don't think sooo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BTS is blaming nvidia...hmm lets look

WWII Fighters - problems with drivers

Dungeon Siege - problems with drivers

Falcon 4 modified for directx- problem with drivers

kdm -problems with nvidia drivers

xfree86 -problems with nvidia drivers

Microsoft Baseball online- problems with nvidia drivers

Virtual Sailor 3- Problems with nvidia drivers

Waterrace- Problem with nvidia drivers

Counter-strike Problems with 12.90 drivers

M3Dzone has a forum with discussions on nvidia driver problems.

From Anandtech

If you haven't gotten the hint by now, there were definitely some frustrations regarding the performance and reliability of graphics drivers under Windows 2000. The same frustrations carried over into the game developer market, as quite a few games simply would not work under Windows 2000. Even today, recently released titles such as EA Sport's NBA Live 2001 aren't fully supported under Windows 2000. Whether it's a combination of Microsoft's unwillingness to realize that there is a group of enthusiasts out there that do play games and want the robustness that Windows 2000 offers, or it's a lack of developer/manufacturer support for the platform as a gaming solution, it is clear that there is a problem.

I can go on and on with quotes from anything from tom's hardware to anadtech, to nvidia sites to ....

Just hate seeing BTS blamed for a problem that is a lot more wide spread then you think.

Rune

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Come on Rune... Blaming drivers for video problems on a game not even released? That's pathetic. And by the way WWII Fighters AND every version of Falcon 4 (most importnatly eFalcon) work perfectly for me. Both with no FSAA and with FSAA. NO video card has 100% compatability on the PC, but NVidia's cards come closer than any other video card in PC Gaming history. I do believe that should count for something - don't you think???

As far as these titles "xfree86 -problems with nvidia drivers

Microsoft Baseball online- problems with nvidia drivers

Virtual Sailor 3- Problems with nvidia drivers

Waterrace- Problem with nvidia drivers" looks like your really groping...

AND, Who gives a crap about MS Baseball or Virtual Sailer??? Waterrace?? Can you say inexperienced developer?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm surprised so many people have had problems with their Nvidias. Which models does it affect?

I have a Creative GEForce with 32MB DDR and am using the standard ME drivers. No complaints - even Quake III runs quite happily, and CM is wonderfully smooth. Maybe using standard drivers will help. *shrug*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...