GerryCMBB Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Hello All: Seen (-) and (+) numbers associated with some soldier states, for example Nervous and -1 Nervous. I assume these are different levels of the state with the (+) numbers meaning it is getting better and about to go to a better state? On a different note, Nervous is not in the manual. I now realize the manual is skimpy. I do realize the game is very complex (e.g. multiple waypoints with multiple orders stacked on each allows a lot of flexibility) so I am happy to have the forums to learn these things. Gerry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 On a different note, Nervous is not in the manual. I now realize the manual is skimpy. I do realize the game is very complex (e.g. multiple waypoints with multiple orders stacked on each allows a lot of flexibility) so I am happy to have the forums to learn these things. Gerry Man you got that right! +20 W/O this forum, I'd likely be staring at the wall with a glazed look in my eyes muttering something about lines and dots. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 It sure would be great to have a rundown of what we can glean from those numbers and words! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Yeah, a complete "good to bad" list would be nice... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Yes, we need simple easy to understand definitions that we can relate to as in: "Nervous" - state of mind when the phone rings while you're having sex... and it's your wife calling. Nervous -1 - You hear wife walk into the house. Nervous -2 - etc... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Yes, we need simple easy to understand definitions that we can relate to as in: "Nervous" - state of mind when the phone rings while you're having sex... and it's your wife calling. Are you alone or is there someone else in the room? Whole different sort of nervous between the two. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Are you alone or is there someone else in the room? Whole different sort of nervous between the two. Mord. oh damn, that hurt. Sick, but funny. Anybody here happen to watch Wilfred? If so, did ya see the episode on Pride? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 It sure would be great to have a rundown of what we can glean from those numbers and words! Yeah. It would be an exaggeration to describe the manual as a disaster; it's far from that. But I wouldn't feel comfortable describing it as adequate either. I understand some of the difficulty involved in putting together a manual dealing with a product that is evolving right up until the moment it is released (and after as well), especially if it has to be done by an employee who has other duties to attend. To some extent it is the inevitable victim of the small size of the company that makes it. But since an online version exists, would it not be possible to release revisions at frequent intervals as problems emerge? Just a thought... Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 CMBNWiki, anyone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryujin Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 from what I understand, numbers +/- by states like moral and leadership reflect the starting "bonus/handicap" to that attribute. So... If I buy a unit with low motivation, they'll start the QB at "OK -1" If I buy a unit with poor motivation, they'll have "OK -2" at the start. They both start at OK, but the guys with poor motivation are going to be more fragile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Ryujin is right I think. The numbers are modifiers. Units with +1 will see a slower degradation of morale in this case, where as units with -1 will lose morale faster. Nervous is the current state they're in. I've seen conscript -2 guys go straight to nervous if they fall out of C2 for example. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I'd come to the conclusion that the numbers were the Soft Stat modifiers, as Ryujin says. OK Cautious Nervous Rattled Shaken Panic Broken Surrender Rout Suppression (and full "Pinned" status) are tracked separately but affect the morale state. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 On the subject of -1 Nervous think of it like a NZ sheep would if being approached by farmer Joch on his sheep farm. Regards KR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Per page 63 in the manual, the four unit attributes in the boxes are Leadership (where the leader's name is printed), Experience (Green, Regular, Veteran, etc), Physical Condition (Rested, Tiring, Tired, etc.), and Morale (OK, Cautious, Broken, etc). The numbers in a box are permanent modifiers to the unit's attribute. So, for instance, "+1 Smith" in the Leadership box means that the unit has a better-than-average leader in Good Old Sergeant Smitty. "+1 Nervous" isn't more nervous than plain "Nervous." Rather, the +1 in the morale box means that the unit has better than average morale in general, while "Nervous" refers to its state right now. That same unit will always have +1 listed whether it is "OK," "Broken," "Cautious," or anything else. A "+2 Nervous" unit is actually (at the moment) in a worse morale state than a "-2 OK" unit. However, the former will be more likely to rally and get back to a good morale state, while the latter will probably get rattled very easily when the shooting starts. In addition, the manual errata that came with the patch has this to say: Page 94 OK, Cautious, Nervous, Shaken, Rattled These stages reflect various levels of "unease" a unit can feel regarding its current combat situation, with "OK" being relaxed and "Rattled" being the least relaxed. These conditions are temporary and the unit remains responsive to player commands (unlike the states described further below). I apologize if this sounds pedantic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I apologize if this sounds pedantic. No, actually that was quite clear. Thanks. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 In other words, the manual is adequate after all, ja? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 In other words, the manual is adequate after all, ja? Only if people take the time to actually read it. Now that Martyr, err, I mean the manual, has laid out the unit attributes in plain and simple English, I have some questions regarding the Experience and Morale: Are the two completely separate now? In CMx1 a crack unit by default had better morale. Is that still the case? In CMx2, does a Crack squad with -2 morale equate to a Veteran unit with normal moral(as far as morale is concerned)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Only if people take the time to actually read it. Now that Martyr, err, I mean the manual, has laid out the unit attributes in plain and simple English, I have some questions regarding the Experience and Morale: Are the two completely separate now? In CMx1 a crack unit by default had better morale. Is that still the case? In CMx2, does a Crack squad with -2 morale equate to a Veteran unit with normal moral(as far as morale is concerned)? Experience and morale are now decoupled. You can have elite squads (in terms of fighting ability) with poor motivation and morale. -2 is just a modifier from a base value (which is not linked to experience). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryCMBB Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 I searched the manual pdf for Nervous again and it's not there. Gerry In other words, the manual is adequate after all, ja? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 In other words, the manual is adequate after all, ja? Don't let it go to your head. We have other gripes...as always. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Re updating the manual, many cardboard game companies have "living rules" available at their sites which are updated regularly based on comments from customers. What would it take for the CM series to have a WIKI encyclopaedia sorta site where players could add their own explanations for certain game features? Between all of us here, it would probably become a comprehensive manual quite quickly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadekster88 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 CMBNWiki, anyone? I can't believe there isn't one already tbh since the game definitely deserves one. Yes, I mean that both ways. edit- Ok, so there is one, but if you thought the manual was skimpy.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I searched the manual pdf for Nervous again and it's not there. Gerry There should be a small manual errata document in your installation if you've installed the patch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 What would it take for the CM series to have a WIKI encyclopaedia sorta site where players could add their own explanations for certain game features? In case it wasn't clear, there is one: http://combatmission.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_Mission_Wiki GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I searched the manual pdf for Nervous again and it's not there. Gerry Hi Gerry, yeah, sorry, Gerry, but we cannot update the manual once printed/pressed on disc. We do release Erratas and updates to the manual with patches, and we also update the online manuals. The online CMSF manuals, including the base game manual, as you will notice, are reflecting v1.21 or something like that, for example. We didn't update the CMBN online manual but the 1.01 patch includes an errata to the manual. The reason why Nervous was left out (among a few of the other states between "OK" and "Panic") is because they are pretty self-explanatory, and there are no special game rules applying to them. Unlike the Panic or Routed states, the units still respond to commands, for example. So, "nervous" is really just what it says - the unit is nervous. Stating this in a manual seems somewhat redundant. Having said that, the errata now clarifies and acknowledges that there are states between OK and Panic, and it's definitely better this way, which is why we added it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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