A Canadian Cat Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I just wanted to say that the addition of Buddy Aid into the game has been the most surprising addition. I love having it. It is not even about retrieving dropped MGs and ammunition. That aspect is good too but not why I really like it. The immersion is enhanced by it so much. I find my self trying to have my squads get to the injured. As a friend said it adds a tactical imperative that was not there in the CM1x games. It just seems like the right thing to do - to try to get to the injured. For example I have a night fight going on in a PBEM game where a nasty little surprise in the woods left two of my squads chewed up. The platoon backed off to regroup for another assault. The thing is my guys can see the wounded and they are sooo close. I am trying to both slowly crawl up to attend to the wounded and reorganize the platoon for another try. In another example a forward squad was cut in half by the assaulting Germans and the other half ran back. The tactically sound thing to do is fall back to the next level of defense but I just could not bring my self to do that. The supporting assault guns are holding their ground in the hope that I can get guys to the wounded. I have decided to give another squad a few minutes to get there and if the make it great if not I'll have to make the hard call. Fabulous game guys! Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wego McPbem Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Completely agree with you and yes I'm also obsessive about buddy aid even when it disadvantages me. Always feel bad whenever I have to leave casualties behind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Me three. I love this game! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 absolutely agree. That little addition makes such an oversized impact on immersion that it actually surprises me. I find myself putting more weight into aiding my injured than actual victory conditions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Absolutely. I try to not micromanage, until I get some people injured. Then, I find myself planning a little operation to have them safe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemuelG Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Count me in as a buddy aid enthusiast, the mere act of tending to your wounded adds a whole new tactical dimension. Fantastic addition to the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timtemple Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I love it too. One question , what does it do points wise to the final tally, kia, wia etc, I checked the manual but it didn't seem to clear. The only disadvantage i can see is if a squad has caused enemy casualties but is annihilated and then disappears through buddy aid you cant check their stats. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejetset Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I love buddy aid too. I think it would be cool that as an added incentive to take the time to administer buddy aid, it would be neat if there was a SMALL chance (maybe only about 10% of the time) of being able to patch someone up enough to be able to re-enter combat with a yellow, lightly wounded, status. I don't think it would be too gamey if the percentage was low enough ... could represent a panicked soldier thinking his would is worse than it actually was ... administering the aid could be enough to get him back into the fight for another 30mins or so until the action is over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanwarrior Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 A great addition to the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I like the idea of seeing to one's wounded and try to detail someone to take care of it when I can. I also feel badly if the pressure of circumstance compel me to leave wounded unattended. But at the end of the day, completing the mission receives first priority. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I guess I'm just ruthless. The only time buddy aid is administered while I'm playing is when it's done automatically by the AI. Other than that, I just leave them where they are and hardly ever go after anyone. IIRC it doesn't really matter score wise since kia and wia are counted together as casualties for the points you are awarded/not awarded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 +1 to all the above. Only thing that would make it better would be to have a few real medics -- I suppose someone could mod an XO squad or something and give a few of them armbands and red-cross helmets -- maybe if the squad was split it could be set up so that the two or three medics ended up in, say, the "scout" team and could then be sent off to various places to tend to wounded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkWGriswold Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I guess I'm just ruthless. The only time buddy aid is administered while I'm playing is when it's done automatically by the AI. Other than that, I just leave them where they are and hardly ever go after anyone. IIRC it doesn't really matter score wise since kia and wia are counted together as casualties for the points you are awarded/not awarded. I'm the same way. I've only ever tried to force buddy aid to occur twice. Once was getting a Panzerschrek to loot the body of an ammo bearer, and once was to get a squad to pick up the MG42 after the gunner had died. Other than that, I don't bother. Buddy aid is cool to see, and 1:1 kills/deaths are more compelling than CMx1, but there's no benefit or reward in the game to giving aid. Even if there were it would have to be substantial for me to risk the mission to give medical attention to fallen men. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Also, while I like the feature, the way it happens may be a bit unrealistic, no? Buddy aid certainly happened, but the first thing a buddy or a medic would do, I think, is try to drag/carry the WIA at least a little way to safety and out of direct fire. Aid right on the spot is nice, but it's heartbreaking to see those Good Samaritans go down while trying to rescue their buddy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemuelG Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I had a sneaking suspicion that bodies and wounded lying around affected morale negatively. Is this so? If not, it should be, how are your guys supposed to fight effectively when they see their dead buddies lying all over the position, or with some poor guy lying in their FOV with his guts hanging out crying for Mom? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkWGriswold Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 it's heartbreaking to see those Good Samaritans go down while trying to rescue their buddy.The perfect reason not to do buddy aid unless you actually need to scrounge a particular weapon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I too often get more caught up in buddy aid than what we were supposed to be doing. I'd be keen for BFC to put medics in the game, as at the moment I usually get some random unit to act as the medic. The XO in CMSF was usually the one I'd have running behind fixing people up, which was kinda his job IRL anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Also, while I like the feature, the way it happens may be a bit unrealistic, no? Buddy aid certainly happened, but the first thing a buddy or a medic would do, I think, is try to drag/carry the WIA at least a little way to safety and out of direct fire. Aid right on the spot is nice, but it's heartbreaking to see those Good Samaritans go down while trying to rescue their buddy. Dragging wounded a short distance to a safer place would be very cool. I had a situation where a squad zipped around a corner on its way to another building. One of the last guys to turn the corner got hit by a sniper and the rest kept on going. The XO team that was behind them stopped at the corner and one member gave buddy aid to the guy who was hit. A perfect example where dragging the injured just 2m would keep the medic out of harms way. In this case things ended fine - that sniper team had to deal with MG fire from an assault gun so he was to busy to shoot at medics. I can see that this would be tricky though. How far should the dragging go? Which way - sometimes it would be better to drag forward a bit if it means getting behind something solid. How far from their unit is the medic allowed to go to find a safer place? I see lots of programming. Would be nice, yes. High priority, no. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hull down Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Funny how adding one "human" element changes the tactical picture and decision making. I guess if that's the case, then I'd have to give the edge in a battle to an army that shuts off that moral imperative. But then again, if every guy is thinking, "Yikes, no one here has got my back," it might make for a demoralized army. Not sure how it works in real life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I'm the same way. I've only ever tried to force buddy aid to occur twice. Once was getting a Panzerschrek to loot the body of an ammo bearer, and once was to get a squad to pick up the MG42 after the gunner had died. Other than that, I don't bother. Buddy aid is cool to see, and 1:1 kills/deaths are more compelling than CMx1, but there's no benefit or reward in the game to giving aid. Even if there were it would have to be substantial for me to risk the mission to give medical attention to fallen men. KIA are worth more than WIA. Buddy aid on WIA reduces the chance of them becoming KIA. It is only a small "advantage" though. I only buddy aid when things are safe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Viajero Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Full squad in big church trying to protect Private Ryan from certain death. Tiger fires at said church killing 1/2 of the squad. Poor remains of squad (including Ryan) ordered to the far side of said church to avoid HE nastiness on the opposite side. ... WTF! what are you guys doing coming back to buddy aid the fallen ones on the exposed side of the church? Are you carrying a white flag at least?!? Damn it. Full squad down the drain. Poor Ryan. Buddy aid is cool but can have disastrous effects sometimes... It would be nice to a have a "disable buddy aid" button aswell... (maybe there is one and I missed it? If that is the case then I really have to RTFM at some point) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Funny how adding one "human" element changes the tactical picture and decision making. I guess if that's the case, then I'd have to give the edge in a battle to an army that shuts off that moral imperative. But then again, if every guy is thinking, "Yikes, no one here has got my back," it might make for a demoralized army. Not sure how it works in real life. I believe that the american army (and probably many other armies too) uses this very deliberately, by having a "no man gets left behind" policy. The general idea being that troops who know that their army will do almost everything possible to get them back are far more willing to go into harms way than troops who have no confidence in their backup. I´m certain a lot of the US users of this forum are able to tell much more about how this works. And yes: I really like the buddy aid feature too. It ads to immersion - like for instance individual soldier´s names would too ;-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Full squad in big church trying to protect Private Ryan from certain death. Tiger fires at said church killing 1/2 of the squad. Poor remains of squad (including Ryan) ordered to the far side of said church to avoid HE nastiness on the opposite side. ... WTF! what are you guys doing coming back to buddy aid the fallen ones on the exposed side of the church? Are you carrying a white flag at least?!? Damn it. Full squad down the drain. Poor Ryan. Buddy aid is cool but can have disastrous effects sometimes... It would be nice to a have a "disable buddy aid" button aswell... (maybe there is one and I missed it? If that is the case then I really have to RTFM at some point) Agreed. I had to abandon a house, because it only has the one action spot. I know having an MG team, the Plt HQ and ammo bearers in the same place isn't ideal, but that was the way it ended up. An MG opened up and killed one of the HQ team. His mate ran over to the window to buddy aid, and got shot too. Then the Ammo bearers started trying to help. Hiding and short arcs didn't help; the attacking MG was keyholed on that window, with a slight elevation advantage. I'm certain that MG would have accounted for all 10 troops in the end, all piled up on each other with their first aid kits out... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Love the feature, and use it whenever I can. Today I even had it working in my favor! I had a couple of mortar ammo bearers that were out of ammo. I sent them back from my position to tend to a couple of wounded we had to leave behind during our advance. Only later I learned a way off German HQ had LOS (out of small arms range) to that position and targeted that area with artillery. By the time the barrage came my medics were long gone and the Germans wasted valuable artillery on an empty field. Big sigh of relief, there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I can see that this would be tricky though. How far should the dragging go? Which way - sometimes it would be better to drag forward a bit if it means getting behind something solid. How far from their unit is the medic allowed to go to find a safer place? I see lots of programming. Would be nice, yes. High priority, no. OK, how about this: No dragging, but instead maybe BFC could code it so troops don't shoot at Medics (just as they usually avoid shooting POWs now). There must be some code "under the hood" that's already being used to designate some unit as a noncombatant at a certain moment. It might work if the game had a certain Medic unit (or specially designated type of team), gave it that same noncombatant status from the beginning, made them unarmed, and just removed the AI behavior/animation that would make them surrender. Then they'd do buddy aid the same way as any other unit, only they'd have Medic uniforms and not shoot or be shot at. I know it sounds like a lot of work, and maybe it is...but look how popular buddy aid has turned out to be in the game. So, i'd be interested to hear from BFC if there's any chance of anything more being done to CMBN in that area. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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