No African American GIs?

[xian]

Any modders out there planning to create some African American skins for the US GIs?

I'm designing a mission where it would be historically accurate to include.

Mind you - I hope that the image placeholder for US soldier skins isn't shared with the German troops - that would just be too weird!

[Other Means]

I don't think African American troops were used on the front lines, being used as drivers for the most part.

Unless you're doing a convoy ambush?

[Michael Emrys]

I think at this point in the war the only negroes in the theater were in service companies, i.e. truck drivers, stevedores, etc. Only later, when the shortage of riflemen became more acute were they accepted into rifle companies. There were also some all-black artillery battalions and TD battalions.

Michael

[MikeyD]

U.S. troops and German troops do not share skins. But I think the U.S. side has fourteen different face textures that cycle randomly. You can't borrow the CMSF black/ethnic faces without considerable work because the model's are different and the art won't match up.

[Johnny Carwash]

There were black US combat units in Italy--the 92nd Infantry Division. Is this who your scenario represents?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/92nd_Infantry_Division_(United_States)

[gunnergoz]

One list I ran accross of "Colored" WW2 US Army units:

2nd Cavalry Division (Horse) (Colored) (inactivated in North Africa and used to created stevedore units)

92nd Infantry Division (Colored)

93rd Infantry Division (Colored)

4th Cavalry Brigade (Colored) (part of 2 Cav Div)

5th Cavalry Brigade (Colored) (part of 2 Cav Div)

46th Field Artillery Brigade (Colored)

5th Armored Group (Colored)

333rd Field Artillery Group (Motorized) (Colored)

349th Field Artillery Group (Motorized) (Colored)

350th Field Artillery Group (Motorized) (Colored)

351st Field Artillery Group (Motorized) (Colored)

353rd Field Artillery Group (Motorized) (Colored)

76th Antiaircraft Artillery Group (Colored)

77th Antiaircraft Artillery Group (Colored)

90th Antiaircraft Artillery Group (Colored)

121st Coast Artillery Group (Antiaircraft) (Colored)

122nd Coast Artillery Group (Antiaircraft) (Colored)

152nd Coast Artillery Group (155mm Gun) (Colored)

369th Antiaircraft Artillery Group (Colored)

24th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (Separate)

25th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (93rd Infantry Division (Colored))

364th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (Separate)

365th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (92nd Infantry Division (Colored))

366th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (Separate)

367th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (Separate)

368th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (93rd Infantry Division (Colored))

369th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (93rd Infantry Division (Colored))

370th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (92nd Infantry Division (Colored))

371st Infantry Regiment (Colored) (92nd Infantry Division (Colored))

372nd Infantry Regiment (Colored) (Separate)

9th Cavalry Regiment (Horse) (Colored)

10th Cavalry Regiment (Horse) (Colored)

27th Cavalry Regiment (Horse) (Colored)

28th Cavalry Regiment (Horse) (Colored)

184th Field Artillery Regiment (155mm How) (Truck-D) (Colored)

333th Field Artillery Regiment (155mm How) (Truck-D) (Colored)

349th Field Artillery Regiment (155mm Gun) (Motorized) (Colored)

350th Field Artillery Regiment (155mm How) (Truck-D) (Colored)

351th Field Artillery Regiment (155mm How) (Truck-D) (Colored)

353rd Field Artillery Regiment (155mm Gun) (Motorized) (Colored)

578th Field Artillery Regiment (8-inch How) (Motorized) (Colored)

54th Coast Artillery Regiment (155mm Gun) (Mobile) (Colored)

76th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored)

77th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored)

90th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored)

99th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored)

100th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored)

369th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Colored)

612th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored)

613th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored)

41st Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

45th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

91st Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

92nd Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

93rd Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

94th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

95th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

96th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

98th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

224th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

226th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

350th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

352nd Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

354th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

356th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

357th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

362nd Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

364th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

365th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

366th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored)

758th Light Tank Battalion (Colored)

761st Tank Battalion (Colored)

784th Tank Battalion (Colored)

614th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun)

646th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Self-Propelled)

649th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun)

659th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun)

669th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun)

679th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun)

795th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Self-Propelled)

827th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Self-Propelled) (M18)

828th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Self-Propelled)

829th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun)

846th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun)

77th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm Gun Trac-D)

79th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (75mm How H-D)

159th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D)

333rd Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D)

349th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D)

350th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D)

351st Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D)

353rd Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm Gun Trac-D)

578th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (8-inch How Trac-D)

593rd Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D)

594th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D)

595th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D)

596th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D)

597th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D)

598th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D)

599th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D)

600th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D)

686th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D)

732nd Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D)

777th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (4.5-inch Gun Trac-D)

795th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (8-inch How Trac-D)

930th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D)

931st Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D)

969th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D)

971st Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D)

973rd Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D)

993rd Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm Gun Trac-D)

999th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (8-inch How Trac-D)

49th Coast Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm Gun)

76th Antiaircraft Artillery Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

77th Antiaircraft Artillery Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

90th Antiaircraft Artillery Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

99th Antiaircraft Artillery Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

100th Antiaircraft Artillery Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

234th Antiaircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

235th Antiaircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

318th Antiaircraft Balloon Battalion, Very Low Altitude (Colored)

319th Antiaircraft Balloon Battalion (Colored)

320th Antiaircraft Balloon Battalion, Very Low Altitude (Colored)

321st Antiaircraft Artillery Balloon Battalion (Colored)

334th Antiaircraft Artillery Searchlight Battalion (Colored)

338th Antiaircraft Artillery Searchlight Battalion (Colored)

361st Antiaircraft Artillery Searchlight Battalion (Colored)

369th Antiaircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

374th Antiaircraft Artillery Searchlight Battalion (Colored)

394th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

395th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

450th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Mobile)

452nd Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Mobile)

458th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

466th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

477th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

484th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

492nd Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

493rd Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

538th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

606th Coast Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm Gun)

607th Coast Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm Gun)

741st Antiaircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

742nd Antiaircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

790th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

819th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

846th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

870th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

871st Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

933rd Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

938th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

[apd1004]

The 758th, 761st, and 784th Tank Battalions were African American units and saw combat. The 24th and 25th Infantry Regiments both were African American and saw combat in the pacific. Most of the segregated units had white senior officers and black junior officers and NCO's.

There are plenty of African American combat units that served in WWII. Not all saw action, some units were assigned rear area duties or other non-combat operations. Most of the African American units that participated in combat operations served with honor and distinction even though the Army at the time considered them "inferior" to white soldiers. The term "Buffalo Soldiers", originally the moniker of the 10th Cavalry Regiment, eventually grew to be used to refer to any all-black segregated unit.

Cheers

EDIT: Wow! Gunnergoz posted the list above after I started to type my reply. That's quite a list.

[JonS]

One list I ran across of "Colored" WW2 US Army units:

Of which, these ones are possibly relevant to CMBN:

*

[xian]

I don't think African American troops were used on the front lines, being used as drivers for the most part.

Unless you're doing a convoy ambush?

Aha - I gave the game away.

[gunnergoz]

Of which, these ones are possibly relevant to CMBN:

Maybe the combat units but are you sure about all the artillery and AA units in the list, Jon? BTW, I was expanding upon another poster's mentioning of the 92nd ID.

So what is your relevant list? How about all the TC colored truck companies on the Red Ball Express? That will keep you busy looking for say, 2 minutes.

[JonS]

I was responding to GGs excellent list. At first blush it makes it appear that omitting black faces was an astonishing and possibly offensive omission by BFC, but it turns out that NONE of those units served in NWE during June-July-August.

The problem you have, for your particular scenario, is that - as I understand it - any face from the pool can be applied to any soldier. So you might get your black drivers (which would make sense), but you're just as likely to get a black Battalion or Platoon commander (which wouldn't). Edit: depending on how you set your scen up that may not matter, but it's something to be aware of.

[MarkEzra]

...astonishing and possibly offensive omission by BFC, ...

No, Not BFC..., The United States of America.

[JonS]

are you sure about all the artillery and AA units in the list?

Yep, those were the easy ones to rule out. AA isn't in CMBN, and all those artillery units are off-map in CMBN terms.

edit: "it turns out that NONE of those units served in NWE during June-July-August" in a combat role that is represented within CMBN.

[liquidcactus]

lol @ gunnergoz and his list

[gunnergoz]

lol @ gunnergoz and his list

And your constructive contribution to the conversation is...?

[gunnergoz]

Representative of the initial use of the Negro battalions was the earlier career of the 969th Field Artillery Battalion, which landed at UTAH Beach on 9 July 1944, under the command of Lt. Col. Hubert D. Barnes. The 969th's first mission was to reinforce the fires of the 8th Division through the 3334 Field Artillery Group. On 10 July the battalion took its first positions at Lattage du Pont in the vicinity of Le Haye du Puits. At 2205 its Battery A fired the unit's first rounds in combat. The battalion commander was wounded that night, but this circumstance had little adverse effect on the unit. The battalion, under its executive officer, Maj. Einar Erickson, for the next fortnight continued to support the 8th Division through the 3334 Group, and later, from 14 July, through attachment to the division. The 969th fired special missions for the 90th Division as well.

OCMH UNITED STATES ARMY IN WORLD WAR II, Special Studies, THE EMPLOYMENT OF NEGRO TROOPS

Blanket dismissals serve no one.

[JonS]

Blanket dismissals serve no one.

Maybe, but irrelevant sidebars don't help much either

[lookeylou]

what about the Italians?!:eek::eek::eek:

[xian]

I was responding to GGs excellent list. At first blush it makes it appear that omitting black faces was an astonishing and possibly offensive omission by BFC, but it turns out that NONE of those units served in NWE during June-July-August..

Even if it was an omission by BF it certainly wouldn't be offensive. There aren't any Panzer IIIs either but I doubt this was due to Panzer III prejudice of BFs part.

I only raised the issue to see if a modder might feel like adding a few new skins because I greedily wanted to include them in my upcoming 'Red Ball Express' mission.

[MikeyD]

The game's not set up to do seperate ethnic faces for whole units (CM:Afghanistan is). You really didn't see the 'Dirty Dozen' pattern of one-of-each ethnic group in a squad back then. I recall my dad commenting on the outragious racial attitudes on some of the southern rednecks serving with his unit back in WWII. It wasn't a pretty picture. A black infantryman might be as likely to be shot in the back by a cracker as by the Germans in those days.

If you own a copy of CMSF, I did a sub-sahara African theater mod pack several years ago. New splash screens and unit pictures, all ethnic African faces for the Red side (meant for Red v Red play). If you combine it with 3rd party horizon & grass mods it becomes and entirely different game. I meant to do several scenarios but I only did two, then a big game patch killed one of those scenarios off.

[Sergei]

The US armed forces were racially segregated during WW2, there were even Japanese infantry units serving in Italy but it would make little sense to see rifle squads with Caucasian, African and Asian faces mixed together.

What interests me is the Free French, who recruited thousands of Senegalese and other colonial troops. The US leaders demanded, for some reason, that the French units participating in the liberation of Paris should not have coloured men among them, though. How they should look like in the game, I have no idea.

[Sergei]

The game's not set up to do seperate ethnic faces for whole units (CM:Afghanistan is).

Not really - there are separate faces for the different sides, ie. Soviets, Afghan army and Afghan rebels, but you don't have actual ethnic differences among them, eg. a unit from Leningrad area would look (and sound) different from a unit coming from Kyrgyzia. This is no different from CMBN.

[gunnergoz]

The US armed forces were racially segregated during WW2, there were even Japanese infantry units serving in Italy but it would make little sense to see rifle squads with Caucasian, African and Asian faces mixed together.

What interests me is the Free French, who recruited thousands of Senegalese and other colonial troops. The US leaders demanded, for some reason, that the French units participating in the liberation of Paris should not have coloured men among them, though. How they should look like in the game, I have no idea.

Hadn't heard about LeClerc being told to hold back his colonials in the 2nd French AD. Was that a SHAEF order? Personally, I can't see Ike making such an order but there were others below him in the chain of command that were not as diplomatic as he was.

Wiki says about 3600 of the division's troops were colonials and that some of the first to enter Paris were with a regiment from Chad.

[Vencini]

An european film about nort african's troops in WW2...Greetings!

[Glukx Ouglouk]

Wiki says about 3600 of the division's troops were colonials and that some of the first to enter Paris were with a regiment from Chad.

The RMT (Régiment de Marche du Tchad - the regiment from Chad you are referring to) wouldn't have included any black soldiers at the time. The other colonial troops in the division at the time were from North Africa, and included both Europeans and North Africans. So there were colonials in the 2e DB, but no black Africans.

An european film about nort african's troops in WW2...Greetings!

Indigènes (Days Of Glory for the US release) isn't the most historically accurate of movies, but it's still very much worth watching - and it's a good reminder of the sacrifices of French colonial troops, and of how little they got in return for their efforts... It also helped raise again the issues surrounding the pensions of former soldiers from the colonies which had become independent - that there was still a need for that in 2006 is frankly a shame.