AAR GC Semi Final - Dragon vs Minty

[Dragon99]

31 August 41 and the summer campaign is approaching a very successful conclusion.

In Europe, nor could Vichy and Sweden are already captured after Finland had joined the Axis. The Russian cities of Riga, Minsk, Kiev, Odessa and Sevastopol were occupied.

In Africa, Khartoum is currently besieged by strong German units and the income is expected in the coming months.

Throughout Asia, the Philippines and Burma have been taken.

In China, Siam, also next to Chung King and the other occupied attack against the remaining Chinese units is imminent.

Manchuria was completely conquered, and at the same time, nearly all the neighboring towns taken. Only Borzzya and Chita are still in Russian hands are weak, however, already under siege.

Total loss of the Russians this summer:

2 HQ

12 Corps

8 armies

1 special army

1 Artillery

4 tanks

with very few casualties

[Minty]

blah blah blah german efficiencies etc blah blah blah 1000 year reich blah blah . We don't care about the casualties you can bleed Russia white. Stalin doesn't even know the names of these cities you are capturing let alone care. Uncle Sam is coming...you dont know where or when but he is coming.....and he is going to $%^& you up.

[Catacol Highlander]

You'll do well to do anything to stop Dragon when he plays as the axis Minty - he's the best I have encountered. I think he knows the game absolutely inside out and has come up with a formula that makes it nigh on impossible for the allies to win because he destroys their fighting capacity long before 1943 gets close. It's not a fixed strategy either - I know of at least 3 styles of play that he can use to decimate the allies, and there is nothing the allied player can do unless he gets outrageous luck. Last time I played him my Russkies got level 4 armour by the time he invaded Russia in 1941, and even that wasnt enough to stop him. Watch out especially for his use of paras.

Actually I think the way he plays demonstrates that probably the game is slanted to the axis. The "friendly" league started by Amadeus has every game now an axis win bar one. Once a player knows how best to wield the axis forces the allied player is sunk. If I were Hubert I think I would be looking to patch GC at some point to try and reduce the potential speed of the axis advance early on. Personally I would make France a slightly harder nut to crack (currently it is far too easy to have France conquered before summer 1940 gets close), and then also make tac air in general less effective, as it is the tac air that makes the axis so dominant early on. By the time the allies get any form of air force that can resist, german/Jap tac air is often on 3 or 4 stars, and that destroys most of an armoured unit in one hit or makes fast work of enemy air units on the ground. It works in reverse too, becuase it is US tac air that can wipe out the axis player late in the game without any bother at all if the axis player has made a mess of things. Tac air is just the king of the battlefield in GC, and it shouldnt be so powerful.

WW1 is much better balanced in that regard - air is important, but not that destructive and also cheaper as a result. I like the feel of it much better than the mad power of tac air in GC.

[Minty]

All good points , I said at the start of this tournament last year that it was biased to Axis when others felt it had an allied preference. All fair points too regarding Dragon, It only really dawned on me how good he is in about spring 40 and by the I had been a little cavalier. He's easily the best player I've played against. he's still not going to win this game though

Autumn 41 and barbarossa coming to a close in Russia, the lines are being drawn for Winnter. His japanese forces are pushing up into China and Burma and are scary with exp 2 or 3 each. Still early days though.

[Catacol Highlander]

Japs are the key for him. He will either use Jap engineers to start fortifying france, or try to land in the U.S or take on the UK with them. I was amazed to find the Japanese Army invading Britain in my game with him in 1943. Germany just concentrated on Russia - Japan wreaked havoc. I tried to be clever and actually got the US navy right up to Tokyo while he was doing all this, to find every square occupied with infantry, HQs and air power all over the place. Couldnt hope to invade or knock Japan out even though I had 8 US carriers and total sea control.

As I said I think he knows the game rather well.

Good luck though. I am playing him again now and taking the allies again, just to see if I can come up with a way of neutralising the speed of his play.

[hellraiser]

Axis cookie cutter at its best

I fully agree, it is easier to play axis if you managed to set your objectives and stick to them. There are no mpps shortages for Axis in SCGC, the ability to upgrade minor allies as if they were german units is extremely powerful, the german navy is strong and difficult to battle against.

The best axis approach is, in my opinion, a rather cautios one - there is absolutely no need for an aggressive style pre barbarossa. Germany don't need spain, vichy, etc so soon. I usually take the 2 freebies early in the game (denmark and norway) and capture north africa and don't bother with other minors till '42. And then i take them to use them as morale boosters for my russian campaign or to improve certain strategic positions rather than the mpp benefits. Thus, you keep the majors' readiness down making it very difficult fot the allies to launch anything serious before summer '43 or '44.

By '44, if not seriously challenged in the west, Russia is dead and the game is over.

Never bother with sealion as well. Why should I? Uk is at best a nuissance on her own. Only USA can help them do something in the west and usually if USA focuses almost everything against germany.

As allies, your only chance is to detect the correct moment when you attack in west but only if the russians are able to attack as well in the east should the germans decide to counter the western allies. That means a very conservative approach with russia and saving of tough pieces (i.e. armour). And even then it is not easy at all.

You cannot defeat Germany by mpp denial - they have them in abundance, but by killing their tough pieces and exploiting the period until the said pieces come back from the factories.

[SeaMonkey]

I agree in a way as the Axis momentum is hard to stop once it gets rolling.

Hint: For rapid, conclusive games, skipping all the early stuff, try the "Axis High Tide" campaign, both parties start off more even, with a number of preliminary goals the Allies have to complete since they are more offensively oriented, and still the Axis have a number of offensive electives also.

Offensive = More Fun!

[Gronq]

Agreed. The game is currently very weighted in favour of the Axis.

[Minty]

Feb 42. Soviets launch a counter towards Riga and Minsk in winter cover from his tac air. Killed a german corp or two and smashed one of his Elite Armies down to a 5. German retreat and no Russian losses so far but spring will bring pain.

German forces are building in Middle east. Turkey will be stuffed and roasted soon opening up soft underbelly of Russia.

In the East the Japanese infantry are unstoppable superhumans. despite US airpower in india his elite special forces press on through burma. Even fortress entrenched inf level 2 chinese armies are cut apart like butter againt his exp 3+ Str 12 + armies as they shoot down AT2 us tac air with their rifles while taking no damage.

Japanese also invade Kenya. Only thing slowing them down is they keep stopping to take so many pictures of all the elephants.

[Minty]

I've played this game a lot but Dragon is taking it to a new level. some would complain of some Gameyness in Dragon's game but this is about proving who the best game player is so full credit to my opponent eg he took manchester before London in the uK? why I thought? until london fell and I found out the hard way the game doesn't give you the option to relocate to Canada just surrender so total loss of tech tree and RN. Same with Vichy, why send a japanese engineer all the way round the world and risk him hitting an allied ship? he used german troops to smash Marseille but waited for the engineer to take the capitol. Result - this is now Japanese territory so he can operate in all the Japanese fighters and tac air if and when I retake UK or France. If Dragon was my accountant I would be paying no tax, he'd find every loophole. Going to have to work hard to turn this game around

[kalkwerk2]

kudos to dragon for inventive gameplay.

however, i do consider these strategies gamey (japan taking vichy LOL) and if they spread I wouldnt play an opponent not comitting to a few house rules, i guess...

[hellraiser]

there were always these kind of loopholes in our beloved series

i remember the SC Blitzkrieg days - don't take smolensk so you don't trigger ural event too soon, don't take alexandria to keep majors' readiness down,etc

These things, if proven to deliver an unfair advantage, can be regulated via some house rules. Till then, they're legit ^^

Don't want to downplay Dragon's smart moves here but I don;t think Axis really need those moves in order to win.

[Dragon99]

..... I think a GC game with many possibilities. Only the UK and Italy declared war on Rome without taking the axle can do about it I find something bad. Otherwise, there are many things you can do surprising ....:-) In the game against Minty was losing my mind after a mistake from him so many UK troops in France. Since it was clear that even in the UK are not much could. Otherwise, I reach for most UK reluctantly. You can see that even in this game where it was fairly easy and inexpensive that it has many disadvantages to attack the UK. And most players take Allie with everything there is at least 43 Germany. In order to survive these attacks then most of the island, well you need Japanese in Europe .... The question is just how it is best to get there because I have many .....:-) axis seen these players, the Japanese use it for the Pacific. The Chinese will be flattened, perhaps even put India under pressure and then are more or less stupid and gone, and no longer know what to do ....:-) I think that you can Southbound quiet time with China ... whether the fall is 41, 42 or even only 43 but no matter. So just attack with so many troops there as necessary and use the rest to make the world a little yellow ....:-)

Well, if I succeed in being recognized the next play however is of course questionable as this is now described as accurately ......:-)))))

[hellraiser]

I don't have extensive H2H experience with SCGC but so far i haven't seen any use of the japanese units in Europe.

To me, Germany&Minors are more than able to exercise control over Europe without many problems.

[Minty]

April 42 and the horror continues. US air smashed to pieces on the ground and in the air by the japanese as they cross into India from Burma and land troops on the coast. Indian Tanks arrive but they wont last long. India wil fall this year.

China is also just a matter of time. Engineers fully entrenched in fortresses are swiped aside by his super soldiers.

One bright spot is Russia. His Tac air is picking off my tanks one by one but my JS1s charge forward and kill a full german army outside minsk. Sevastapol is also retaken by the soviets in a clever amphib behind enemy lines move . I doubt I will hold it but Massive soviet forces move forwards to try to get to them before Germany wipes them out in Spring.

Africa is grim too. he's heading south and if he takes south africa I will have no way of getting troops to India from the US. We will make a stand there.

Turks are just plain stupid. Axis have taken all of middle east, are massing on his borders and still they are axis 4%. Idiots.

[boudi]

We want screenshots !

[Minty]

whenever I try they just end up as tiny thumbnails. how do I post 'em big?

Anyway some action from the allies in april 42.USA move forward in atlantic and pacific as they take Dakar and (with the Japanese busy everywhere else) start to island hop taking some random island back from the japanese in the solomons.

Fairly predictable pattern in Russia. Soviets launch assault , wipes out a german unit but are smashed by air power next turn. Soviets have killed around 4 or 5 germans units over winter at reasonable loss. This time though I wipe out his top army in a trap by sevastapol. His supply 9 , exp 4 str11 super morale 3rd army is sent to retake sevastapol. they are certainly the boys for the job as the rest of axis southern forces are all albanians and hungarians. However it gets shelled by my cruiser, attacked by more amphib troops, kamikazed by my special forces and finally charged full on by a JS1 which kills it but goes down to a str 1 itself! I lose two to three heavy but green units in exchange for his most experienced. worth it though to kill the cream of the wehrmacht.

In India he is slowing as supply and aircover needs to catch up. China is a turkey shoot for the mighty japanese airforce.

[SeaMonkey]

I know everyone likes to go for the kill when the opportunity presents itself, I do myself sometimes, but when faced with greatly experienced enemy units, I usually try to attrite them for a few turns as their next turn replacement cycle reduces their experience level and readiness.

This is where the numbers game helps out, you can rotate your units back out of harms way and hit those experienced enemies over and over, eroding their and the nearby supporting units' experience and strength levels to where they are reactive to your moves instead of vice versa, thereby arresting the initiative.

In other words, take an enemy local, and reduce the strength of all the enemy units in that vicinity with advantageous attacks rather than kill that one or two and suffer the consequences of your over extension in the next turn.

[Minty]

all wise words but try have you played Dragon? he'll not give you the chance to "erode" or "attrite" he'll be busy rampaging your capital. I'm smashing out at any enemy units I can and just happy to be causing any damage.

[Bill101]

whenever I try they just end up as tiny thumbnails. how do I post 'em big?

The way I do it is to open an account at http://photobucket.com/ and upload the shots to there as jpg files.

Once saved, copy the IMG link for the image, and paste it directly into your post here.

I agree that it would be nice to see some pictures here, so give it a go and if you have any problems just ask.

Bill

[Dragon99]

42 and the spring comes slowly in the new German summer offensive output.

The Army Group Finland in collaboration with Army Group North was able to destroy two special units.

Army Group South and Army Group Africa was able to conquer Turkey. During these, the major cities of Istanbul, Ankara and Erzurm occupied. Army Air Force were involved interred them and paratroopers.

Acquired special merits in turn, the one FSJ. Her awards and achievements .....

These results promise a successful year 42 and the High Command in the Kremlin hopes to be able to celebrate Christmas.

[Dragon99]

When the Imperial Japanese troops, there are currently four notable fronts.

Africa:

India / China:

Manchuria:

At the fronts in Africa, India and China are recorded gains and the terrain is at least in China, hoping for a speedy surrender of the Chinese.

[Minty]

Turkey take down was brutal. Summer will be tough for soviets as German tigers are approaching the front lines. Still the russians have some air defence, a few big tanks themselves,a lot of troops and plenty of space to retreat , there will be tough fighting in russia for a few more years. The same cannot be said for China which is being sliced to pieces. India held better than I expected but the Japanese are breaking through. Nothing from US except some bombing raids in west africa and some scouting in the pacific.

[Jollyguy]

I've played Dragon 2 times and am on my third game with him now, about 40 turns in. I think I have an Allied strategy that might even the game and am interested in trying it out on a good opponent, and have asked Dragon to send me another Axis first turn but he hasn't, I gather he's got too many games going. I also asked Colin & Sandy but they are too busy also. If someone wants to send me an Axis first turn we can run it through the paces. There's a lot of moving parts to SCG and Dragon has found many of the loopholes from the Axis side, but perhaps what I bumped into from the Allied side could even the score a bit. If you're interested send an Axis first turn to:

rrweeks@comcast.net

As to taking Manchester before London and forcing a total Brit surrender that's gamey and should be patched and going forward I'm going to make it a house rule in my games that you can't do that. I'm okay with the Japanese moving all over the place though, it gives the game variety. Afterall the Japanese attacked Ceylon and tried to push deep into the Indian Ocean, and if Cairo had fallen the Axis might have joined up, and the Allies did occupy Iran, so it was close. But if the Russians won't allow Allied units to op in, and I don't think you can do it in China either, then the Japanese should not be allowed to op all the way over to Europe and the Atlantic. Asis and Africa perhaps, but there should be a balancing limitation. Either let the Allies do it also or put limits on it.

Bob

[hellraiser]

I sent you the 1st turn , Jolly.