Bocage and Tanks

[Speedy]

I have noticed in the game that you can easily roll a combat vehicle into an excellent fighting position just behind bocage. To me this just doesn't seem realistic as although the vehicles gun might penetrate the bocage and have a clear LOF I would think that unless time was spent cutting a hole in the bocage the vehicles optics would not be able to see anything.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Childress]

One would believe that a tank with its nose in bocage has issues rotating the turret. Of course this may be already reflected.

[gunnergoz]

I would think some of it has to do with how high the bocage is at that point. In the game, a given section of bocage is by default pretty uniform looking but in real life, it was not always uniformly high or thick. It had...character, for lack of a better word, that the game can't capture, as good as it is otherwise.

[Michael Emrys]

I think one of the beta testers posted a couple of weeks ago that the thing about low bocage is that it allows vehicles to have LOS/LOF over it. Could that be what you are seeing, Speedy?

[mrpwase]

I think he's referring to moving vehicles and tanks right up to the edge of bocage (tall bocage) and being able to see and fire through, albeit in a limited fashion. The second mission of the Panzer Marsch campaign featured this heavily for me.

[Wego McPbem]

Yeah, this seemed a bit odd to me too. Damn useful though

[Michael Emrys]

I think he's referring to moving vehicles and tanks right up to the edge of bocage (tall bocage) and being able to see and fire through, albeit in a limited fashion.

Yes, you're right. Since posting the above I've had a chance to test this and most certainly tanks are able to select targets and fire through high bocage. I too question the reality of it. Would be interested to hear any official comment on the reasoning behind allowing this.

Michael

[Schmoly War]

This has proven to be unbeatable in PBEMs ive had. Roll sherman tanks up to the high bocage to defeat Panther and Tigers. Ive never seen shots penetrate my tanks from behind it.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I have a suspicion the reason for it is something along the lines of: if they let infantry do it there is currently no way to prevent tanks from doing it too.

[Sakai007]

In a QB yesterday the AI would have had me cold if it wasn't for a single Sherman 105 that I pulled from the other side of the map when things got nasty with a platoon of infantry as reinforcements. At the time they got there, the Germans were pushing a second company through and I caught the whole unit in it's flank. The 105 inflicted 79 casualties over all, even after all but one squad of supporting infantry had been killed. I did notice that the LOS of the tank was severely restricted to about 10 degrees either side of dead center. It was enough for that circumstance, but seemed realistic enough. Perhaps there was a gap in the top cover of the hedge that must be abstracted due to limitations.

[Blackcat]

This has proven to be unbeatable in PBEMs ive had. Roll sherman tanks up to the high bocage to defeat Panther and Tigers. Ive never seen shots penetrate my tanks from behind it.

Think yourself lucky. From my first introduction to CMBN at the February preview I have lost Shermans behind High Bocage.

Whilst I have sympathy for the OP point, I wouldn't want to see the current solution changed, not least because it would entail every scenario and map involving bocage to be re-done. I think this is one of those situations where playability must take precedence over realism.

[Speedy]

Yes, you're right. Since posting the above I've had a chance to test this and most certainly tanks are able to select targets and fire through high bocage. I too question the reality of it. Would be interested to hear any official comment on the reasoning behind allowing this.

Michael

Yes Michael it is the High Bocage I am referring to.

The problem is exacerbated by bocages propensity to stop high velocity AP rounds dead.