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normannobrot

info on "out of memory error"

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3GB is still a 50% increase to your system RAM, and a bigger increase to what's available to the game, since there's a certain base amount that's always taken up by the operating system.

Overall, upgrading to 4MB is very worthwhile, even on XP. No point in going higher than that, though, until you are running an OS that can address it.

Im running 6gb of ram... and still having issues only with Battalion sizes. All the scenerios run fine...its only Large scenerios that have this issue.. lots of buildings???

example. I made the SW portion of Carentan. Germans have 2btn worth of men and material.. to some degree. Airborne forces are E,F,D companies... reinforcements include a Large element of the 327th Glider Btn. and about 12 armored vehicles from the 2nd CCA.

Anyways after about 8-10 turns.. Out of memory... I cant imagine I need more then 6gb of Ram?

running Windows 7 64bit system.... 6gb ram.

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Im running 6gb of ram... and still having issues only with Battalion sizes. All the scenerios run fine...its only Large scenerios that have this issue.. lots of buildings???

example. I made the SW portion of Carentan. Germans have 2btn worth of men and material.. to some degree. Airborne forces are E,F,D companies... reinforcements include a Large element of the 327th Glider Btn. and about 12 armored vehicles from the 2nd CCA.

Anyways after about 8-10 turns.. Out of memory... I cant imagine I need more then 6gb of Ram?

running Windows 7 64bit system.... 6gb ram.

Combat Mission is a 32-bit process and can't use more than 2GB of RAM.

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Do you know what a memory leak looks like? I doubt it - there are a number of *programmers* who have never diagnosed a real memory leak.

I can say in the case of CMBN (at least on my machine and from what I understand a significant number of others), there is something very wrong with the way memory is being handled, be it a textbook memory leak or something else. CMBN seems to access system memory for "one off" tasks (like calculating a WEGO turn) but then never releases it back in to the memory pool so it can then re-use (re-cycle) it again next turn.

Throughout that 1hr 30min WEGO battle in the campaign "Courage and Fortitude", I ended up having to endure about 25 (or more) annoying crashes/restarts to progress and finish the battle. I had to basically save the game every few turns in the last 30min. I ended up having to create 25 save files that I would then have to reload each time the game crashed.

But - you're helping neither yourself nor me by talking about bad programming, or talking as though there's something I'm not "acknowledging". I'm simply keeping an open mind, and hoping you'll do me the same courtesy.

I really just would like this problem addressed and I am sure you do too. I do appreciate your comments on this topic.

I have played the next 60min battle in the campaign which wasn't as large as the 1hr 30min battle. For some reason I was "confident" I wasn't going to have the problems of the previous battle. And for the first 45min I was right. I STUPIDLY didn't even bother to save at any point. Then.....AGHHH!!!!! Crashiola "Out of Memory"! Had I bothered to keep track of CMBNs memory allocation via the Task Manager I woudl probably have been able to predict WHEN the game would crash.

I am now going to play that battle again (talk about SPOILERS) and plot the memory allocation vs the turn. I predict a linear increase in memory allocation.

i have no issues with the game just interested in this thread.

For those people who say they DON'T have crashes, is it because they just haven't played over 45min of WEGO CMBN in a stretch?

Are there any players out there who can definitely say that when playing WEGO CMBN, by simply checking the Task Manager System resources screen, that the memory allocated to the CMBN process DOESN'T gradually increase as each turn is played?

Anyone reading this thread saying they have no "Out of Memory" problems are not helping problem solve this issue if they:

a) haven't played a significantly sized WEGO CMBN battle continuously beyond 45-60min

B) fail to comment on whether the Task Manager Resource Monitor shows the memory allocation to the CMBN process progressively increase as you play each WEGO turn.

@Phil Culliton: One of the features of CMx1 I miss (opps! probably shouldn't have said that) is the AUTOSAVE feature! I was surprised to find that CMBN doesn't have one. Any chance of implementing it? Would make dealing with this issue as a player a lot less severe.

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I can say in the case of CMBN (at least on my machine and from what I understand a significant number of others), there is something very wrong with the way memory is being handled, be it a textbook memory leak or something else. CMBN seems to access system memory for "one off" tasks (like calculating a WEGO turn) but then never releases it back in to the memory pool so it can then re-use (re-cycle) it again next turn.

Throughout that 1hr 30min WEGO battle in the campaign "Courage and Fortitude", I ended up having to endure about 25 (or more) annoying crashes/restarts to progress and finish the battle. I had to basically save the game every few turns in the last 30min. I ended up having to create 25 save files that I would then have to reload each time the game crashed.

I really just would like this problem addressed and I am sure you do too. I do appreciate your comments on this topic.

I have played the next 60min battle in the campaign which wasn't as large as the 1hr 30min battle. For some reason I was "confident" I wasn't going to have the problems of the previous battle. And for the first 45min I was right. I STUPIDLY didn't even bother to save at any point. Then.....AGHHH!!!!! Crashiola "Out of Memory"! Had I bothered to keep track of CMBNs memory allocation via the Task Manager I woudl probably have been able to predict WHEN the game would crash.

I am now going to play that battle again (talk about SPOILERS) and plot the memory allocation vs the turn. I predict a linear increase in memory allocation.

For those people who say they DON'T have crashes, is it because they just haven't played over 45min of WEGO CMBN in a stretch?

Are there any players out there who can definitely say that when playing WEGO CMBN, by simply checking the Task Manager System resources screen, that the memory allocated to the CMBN process DOESN'T gradually increase as each turn is played?

Anyone reading this thread saying they have no "Out of Memory" problems are not helping problem solve this issue if they:

a) haven't played a significantly sized WEGO CMBN battle continuously beyond 45-60min

B) fail to comment on whether the Task Manager Resource Monitor shows the memory allocation to the CMBN process progressively increase as you play each WEGO turn.

@Phil Culliton: One of the features of CMx1 I miss (opps! probably shouldn't have said that) is the AUTOSAVE feature! I was surprised to find that CMBN doesn't have one. Any chance of implementing it? Would make dealing with this issue as a player a lot less severe.

I will play a very large WEGO battle and see if the same problems occur. If it helps :-)

8gig ram

64bit win 7

Nvidia G force 9800 GT card

all drivers up to date

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As expected, I can confirm that playing CMBN WEGO continously (at least on my machine) results in the CMBN process steadily accumulating memory for itself, at a rate which seems dependant on how many units are on the battlefield.

This graph shows it in detail.

cmbnmemory.jpg

You can see that saving the game does little to reduce the amount of memory associated to the CMBN process.

Not shown on the graph, at the 39th turn, with the CMBN process holding approximately 1.4GB of system memory, I actually decided to first just EXIT the campaign and reload the saved game (rather than exit out of CMBN completely). To my surprise the CMBN process retained 1.28GB of memory while I was at the Menu Screen! :eek: (compared to the 0.086 GB it does when you start CMBN from scratch).

It is quite obvious why I am getting "Out of Memory" errors with CMBN. Had I continued to play the campaign without saving, exiting CMBN completely and restarting CMBN to continue, the game would have eventually crashed out with the "Out of Memory" error.

I would not be surprised if this memory hogging behaviour is common for all Windows systems running CMBN.

Houston, we have a problem....

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Lt Bull, I'll respond in more detail later, but with literally tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands, or *millions*) of WEGO turns played during the years of testing CMBN (most of them in 90 or 120 minute scenarios, since that's what our testers and designers seem to favor), we have not seen constant game crashes. Your graph indicates an *enormous* amount of memory usage, the likes of which I have not personally seen with the Windows version of CMBN.

I ran through 90 minutes of WEGO last night and did NOT crash. Data good; sweeping generalizations bad.

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I have a saved game from that campaign that will consistency crash with the "Out of Memory" error during turn calculation about 5-6 turns in from the save. This campaign battle timer is at 27min (started at 1hr 30 I think) and I believe all the US reinforcements have arrived.

I have exactly the same problem as Lt Bull, i had already post a ticket to the tech support with save game corrupted. Schrullenhaft of

Battlefront Tech Support said me it was under consideration.

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Ummmh, quite strange Mr Lt Bull…., I was preparing a post with a guess, which was completely different to yours till I saw your graphic…

As I’m suffering the “29% loading crack” too, I suspected the “out of memory crack” was somehow related to the way CMBN store/save things.

I was guessing, and I can be miserably wrong, that while the blue bar is running some kind of “1 minute realtime” is processed, stored/saved and then loaded to allow its review (so blue bar collapse at almost the end while savedgames collapse at 29%of loading)

Let my explain to Mr Culliton why I guessed it:

- I got 53 bbt files from a self made scenario, most of then (48) are within 4000kb to 5900kb, increasing steadily as the game progress.

- 3 of then are over 10.000kb and always produce the “29% loading crack”, they are random numbers not related to times of reinforcements arrival, and I can not consistently relate them to anything (no repetition of the previous no-corrupted savedgame produce a corrupted savedgame, but, of course, it gives the impression/feeling that something happens when more units arrived)

- And I have also 1 btt with a size of 1 kb which also produce A VERY NEW “2% loading crack”

- As far as I know, the "29% loading crack" might not be something exclusive of “we go” players. Out of memory might be exclusive of we go players… and I am guessing “we goers” are abusing of the saving/storing part of the program.

- I have changed between computers (32/64- xp/win7), changed graphic cards on each (ati5770/nvidia gt220) and no different “behaviour” at all.

But now, after Lt Bull graphic’s post, the only thing that could relate them is if I’m saving the game at the edge of the memory collapse…wich is also strange as intermediate save games are not that inconsistent on their size and...

Knowing that my complete ignorance of the subject is know stated, I would like to end this begging Mr Culliton to give us a solution asap, you know… the game is superb and you could easily figure out how I like it that even with these uncomfortable issues I am playing it any spare time I have.

P.S.- Mr Culliton, it is with much disconfort that i hear that you are not suffering the expected out of memory issue (size of map and forces?), bad cause no consistency is shown and no way to traze the root. So if you like i sent my pc to your location, but would be great if somebody nearest than i am could.

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2nd battle of Road to Mounteberg campaign WeGo out of memory error after 20+ turns.

During the battle after about 10 turns it started to get sluggish.

I'm sure this is not even the biggest battle of the game unit wise either

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fugazy: yes, it's under consideration. It's one of the things I'm working on at the moment.

Dan Dare: excellent info, thanks.

Lt Bull: thanks, that info was very helpful. I would like to caution anyone reading this that unless you're a programmer with access to the code and necessary tools, drawing sweeping conclusions is fruitless at best.

For one, I expect to draw my own, and really dire conclusions, no matter what they're based on, can lead other people to be more aggressive and less helpful. If people are coming in / filing tickets and shouting at us about apocalyptic memory leaks I end up having less time and energy to spend finding solutions. So: again, info good, generalizations that only muddy the waters bad.

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I get Out of Memory crashes consistently in my current game, a Huge QB against the AI on the 078 QB map (large village bocage). I can play 2 turns safely before I have to exit the game and reload. Otherwise it will crash on the 3rd or 4th consecutive turn, usually during the calculating "blue bar" phase, but I've also had it happen once when saving the game (fortunately it did not corrupt the save!)

------------------

System Information

------------------

Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7600) (7600.win7_rtm.090713-1255)

Language: English (Regional Setting: English)

System Manufacturer: ASUSTek Computer Inc.

System Model: G60J

BIOS: BIOS Date: 06/15/09 18:50:05 Ver: 08.00.10

Processor: Intel® Core i7 CPU Q 720 @ 1.60GHz (8 CPUs), ~1.6GHz

Memory: 4096MB RAM

Available OS Memory: 4086MB RAM

Page File: 1231MB used, 6937MB available

Windows Dir: C:\Windows

DirectX Version: DirectX 11

DX Setup Parameters: Not found

User DPI Setting: 120 DPI (125 percent)

System DPI Setting: 120 DPI (125 percent)

DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled

---------------

Display Devices

---------------

Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M

Manufacturer: NVIDIA

Chip type: GeForce GTX 260M

DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC

Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0618&SUBSYS_20331043&REV_A2

Display Memory: 2792 MB

Dedicated Memory: 1005 MB

Shared Memory: 1786 MB

Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)

Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor

Monitor Model: unknown

Monitor Id: AUO15ED

Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.008Hz)

Output Type: Internal

Driver Name: nvd3dumx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um

Driver File Version: 8.17.0012.7061 (English)

Driver Version: 8.17.12.7061

DDI Version: 10

Driver Model: WDDM 1.1

Driver Attributes: Final Retail

Driver Date/Size: 4/7/2011 23:14:00, 12934248 bytes

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as unpredictable as life is....., and to correct some info i had conveyed....., i have just got an "out of memory crack" with the blue bar still at the 1st cuarter of its length...this is getting really interesting

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I ran through 90 minutes of WEGO last night and did NOT crash.

But did you monitor the memory usage per turn as I did? Did your CMBN memory usage stay constant throughout? Are you running WinXP (32bit)?

I get Out of Memory crashes consistently in my current game

OK but have you also monitored the memory allocation to the CMBN process while you are playing?

For those unaware of how to do this (on Windows systems), you just need to run Task Manager in te bckground while you play CMBN and ALT+TAB in/out of the game to record/inspect the memory usage between turns.

1. From your desktop CTRL+ALT+DEL to bring up the Task Manager (you can ALT+TAB out of CMBN to do this)

2. Click on the Processess tab

3. Look for CM Normandy.exe in the left column

taskm.jpg

4. Read/record the Mem Usuage value

5. Without closing down the Task Manager, return to CMBN to play another turn.

6. Repeat end of each turn...

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But did you monitor the memory usage per turn as I did?

Yes. I did. Note that I simply said it didn't crash. I didn't say anything about memory usage.

Edit: Seriously, though? I've got a task list as long as my arm and more waiting for when I finish those. Of course I monitored memory usage. I'm using several sets of tools to monitor memory usage, OpenGL allocations, OS and VRAM paging, you name it, I'm probably tracking it. And then afterward I dig through logs and work out if anything out of the ordinary is happening, with every single run.

Did your CMBN memory usage stay constant throughout?

No. And it shouldn't, as I feel I've explained several times. Resources are loaded mid-scenario, memory is allocated that will stay allocated throughout the scenario. Whether there's anything *abnormal* in that memory usage, I'm still looking at.

Are you running WinXP (32bit)?

Both WinXP 32-bit and Windows 7 64-bit.

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Yes. I did. Note that I simply said it didn't crash. I didn't say anything about memory usage.

OK, it didn't crash for you, but did the memory usage steadily increase (approximately in a linear fashion) which each turn, maybe not as steeply as it did in my example? If it did, then I doubt you would contest the notion that your game would eventually crash. I don't think you have infinite memory resources. You should even be able to predict when your game will crash based on the trend data you gather over the course of a few consequently turns. The fact that your game didn't crash in this scenario is not that important in diagnosing the problem.

No. And it shouldn't, as I feel I've explained several times. Resources are loaded mid-scenario, memory is allocated that will stay allocated throughout the scenario. Whether there's anything *abnormal* in that memory usage, I'm still looking at.

If you are talking about inconsequential small memory fluctuations or slight increases due to say the arrival of reinforcements I would agree.

But if you are saying that steady gradual memory increases/"creep" (like in my example) over the course of a game is normal, then I would disagree. It is evident that the game can and should be able to run WITHOUT taking up more and more memory each turn. This is evident when you exit and restart CMBN and find that for the same turn, like shown on my graph. In that instance, the CMBN process now only needed to use less than 0.4GB of memory rather than the 1.4GB of memory it was using prior to the restart.

From my own experience using software, this memory creep phenomena that I am describing is not "abnormal", it happens quite a bit. However "abnormal" does not imply acceptable or desirable.

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OK, it didn't crash for you, but did the memory usage steadily increase (approximately in a linear fashion) which each turn, maybe not as steeply as it did in my example? If it did, then I doubt you would contest the notion that your game would eventually crash. I don't think you have infinite memory resources. You should even be able to predict when your game will crash based on the trend data you gather over the course of a few consequently turns. The fact that your game didn't crash in this scenario is not that important in diagnosing the problem.

Lt Bull - I don't know your background, but I suspect you are NOT an experienced programmer with an extensive set of relevant knowledge. If you *were* a programmer with years of experience in tracking down problems precisely like this, you would know that without the code in front of you, you have a snowball's chance in hell of correctly telling me what I should be doing or taking note of.

Your problem, and your satisfaction as a customer, is important to me. Your opinion regarding what is important in a problem you don't understand, is not. I know exactly what I'm looking for, and telling me how to do my job, when you likely have not done anything remotely similar even once, isn't helping me find a solution any faster.

If you are talking about inconsequential small memory fluctuations or slight increases due to say the arrival of reinforcements I would agree.

But if you are saying that steady gradual memory increases/"creep" (like in my example) over the course of a game is normal, then I would disagree. It is evident that the game can and should be able to run WITHOUT taking up more and more memory each turn. This is evident when you exit and restart CMBN and find that for the same turn, like shown on my graph. In that instance, the CMBN process now only needed to use less than 0.4GB of memory rather than the 1.4GB of memory it was using prior to the restart.

From my own experience using software, this memory creep phenomena that I am describing is not "abnormal", it happens quite a bit. However "abnormal" does not imply acceptable or desirable.

You understand that not all information is saved in a saved game? That when you load a game there is a veritable ton of information that still needs to be generated on the fly, with each turn? And that all of that uses memory? And sometimes that memory can't be released until the scenario ends?

I'm not sure how many ways I can put this - yes, I believe you have a real problem. I am working on solving it. Your information is very helpful.

You do not seem to be, however, in any position, in terms of knowledge, to "disagree" with me. You have no idea what is "normal" and what is not, or indeed, based on your assertions, how programs work in general. Task Manager is a blunt tool at best, and the information you're gleaning is at best terribly incomplete. I have the code, experience, debuggers, specialized tools for tracking memory usage, allocation, and deallocation, and a bag of tricks from having solved this problem dozens of times. I am in a far better position to opine on what might or might not be evident or important.

You can certainly offer your opinion. But this type of discussion above? It only confuses people who may be trying to understand the problem they're having, and which I'm attempting to solve.

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Lt Bull - I don't know your background, but....

OMG are you trying to judge me? Well, start with I am not an idiot.

Phil. Relax. You are the First Second Programmer. You da man. I am not telling you HOW to fix the problem or what priority this problem should be on your "to do list". That's your job. Hey, all I have done and all I am doing is graphically diagnosing and logically identifying the problem in detail as experienced by the end user, and bringing some much needed clarity and definition to this "out of Memory" problem, for the benefit of all concerned. Last I checked no one else had done so in ANY of the various threads that are now scattered thought this forum. What you do with it is up to you I guess.

I will continue to ignore all the surprisingly personal "who the f are you" type credibility comments(*) you seem interested in establishing and will continue to respond, help out and provide any further observations I find on this tech problem. However I will address any technical assertions made that don't make sense.

You have a very interesting way of discussing technical issues. Quite frankly I am surprised. In case you are not aware, of the 343 words used in your last post, the word "you" (as in me) featured 14 times and the word "your" (me again) 7 times in ways that I really feel are disctractingly unnecessary. What have I done to deserve this kind of personal attention?

There is no need to get personal. I find it's better to work that way when dealing with impersonal technical issues such as this. It really is a waste of energy for everyone having to contend with and respond to personal "spin". It's not about me, you or anyone else. It's a stupid software problem. Sh*t happens. If anyone is going to fix it it's BFC.

If there are any other reasons for discrediting my contributions in this thread, please just tell me somehow (preferably not in this thread). It will make things easier for both of us. Do you want me to delete the post I made where I used the term "bad programming"?

Now...back to the issue at hand.

I'm not sure how many ways I can put this - yes, I believe you have a real problem.

Not sure why the contention with how to put it. What's the big deal? Just announce it in English and move on.

And correct me if I am wrong but don't you just mean "you have identified a real problem"?

I am working on solving it. Your information is very helpful.

Great. I'm happy to help out as a contentious end user.

You understand that not all information is saved in a saved game?....And sometimes that memory can't be released until the scenario ends?

What is/isn't possible in CMBN code world is all BFC's lot (and Microsofts/Macs/OpenGL etc). But does it take a programming guru to point out that ANY program that can't release memory and instead accumulates more and more over time is destined to crash eventually (unless there is a thing as infinite memory). This is what appears to be the case with CMBN WEGO (at least on my PC).

I know exactly what I'm looking for, and telling me how to do my job, when you likely have not done anything remotely similar even once, isn't helping me find a solution any faster.

Great. AS I said. You da man. No need to repeat I am not telling anyone how to do their job. Not sure why one would think that. I'm just a keen eyed observer of an annoying problem affecting a game I bought.

You do not seem to be, however, in any position, in terms of knowledge, to "disagree" with me.

Ignoring the possibility that this could be a rather arrogant sweeping statement directed to anything you have said or will say.....FWIW I don't even know what "disagreement" you are referring to. Clarify if you think it is necessary.

You have no idea what is "normal" and what is not, or indeed, based on your assertions, how programs work in general.

Refer to * above.

Task Manager is a blunt tool at best, and the information you're gleaning is at best terribly incomplete.

That's an interesting comment that I certainly must probe it further for my own sanity. Sometimes blunt tools are all that's needed to detect patterns/symptoms of problems, which is what I have done. I'm not telling anyone how to fix it. Unless someone can enlighten me, should I have reason to doubt:

a) the accuracy of the memory usage data I tracked via Task Manager?

B) that the CMBN process doesn't accumulate more and more memory with each WEGO turn with no signs of letting up?

c) that anyone else who can observe the behaviour in B) using the Task Manager can be sure their CMBN process will also crash if they play long enough?

d) that as long as this CMBN process behaviour can be observed via the Task Manager, the eventual crashes will always continue?

I have the code, experience, debuggers, specialized tools for tracking memory usage, allocation, and deallocation, and a bag of tricks from having solved this problem dozens of times. I am in a far better position to opine on what might or might not be evident or important.

Good on you. I am happy you are fixing it and not me. Just don't shoot the messenger.

You can certainly offer your opinion.

What opinion? That ANY software that steadily accumulates more and more memory over time without any sign of letting up will eventually crash? What is your "opinion" on this then? Or my opinion that not all software is perfect?

But this type of discussion above? It only confuses people who may be trying to understand the problem they're having, and which I'm attempting to solve.

Really? What confusion? You really don't want to question the intelligence of the other forum readers here as well. No one is doing to you. I really hope you back off the personal focus.

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Lt Bull, I'll respond in more detail later, but with literally tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands, or *millions*) of WEGO turns played during the years of testing CMBN (most of them in 90 or 120 minute scenarios, since that's what our testers and designers seem to favor), we have not seen constant game crashes. Your graph indicates an *enormous* amount of memory usage, the likes of which I have not personally seen with the Windows version of CMBN.

I ran through 90 minutes of WEGO last night and did NOT crash. Data good; sweeping generalizations bad.

It appears this only happens with enormus maps, or lots of units... more then Btn strength.. at least on my machine. Never had this issue before.. even with CMSF.

Until someone can figure this out.. I will constantly save my wego games every 8 turns... exit out.. then load the saved game... pain in the arse.. but what else can we do?

is it an issue of Windows 7? I have no idea... I am going to close everything I can on my desktop and see if there is any difference in the ammount of memory being eaten up every turn playing. Again the strange thing is.. I can play all the scenerio's just fine.. Its only when I have loaded a scenerio I created it has issues... 'large map of Carentan" City map lots of buildings, and Flavor objects... both sides are roughly 2 btn or more...entering at different times. My guess is ... CMBN may have issues with large scale battles? and large maps with lots of trees, or either buildings.

So I was checking the memory thru task manager in my Scenerio.. "built up area SW Carentan area... mostly buildings, some trees and 2 btn each side worth of troops etc." Turn 14 its at 429k memory.... next turn it jumped to 675k, next turn.. = Fail. Locked up.

Im guessing here.. that no one has really tried Huge Built up city maps, with Btn size or more, and most people are content with small scenerio maps. I guess I like testing the boundries, and found that I hit a huge wall wtih the capabilities here. however with CMx1 I used Regimental size for both sides and had no issues. Anyone have any ideas? Becuse this thread is going no where on actually coming up with solutions.

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Could not get through training mission 2 without hang. Saved game every 3-4 turns and reloaded and I could - definitely a memory leak somewhere. I also have helmets and weapons but no soldiers on anything set to lower display values. Win 7 4g, ATI 4650 w/ 1m upgraded to 11.5 driver (1900x1080) so that is not display issue.

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I'm not so sure it is peculiar to large maps and large forces either. Just playing the La Meuaffe map(which is not that large or unit large) and i noticed things getting sluggish after about 15turns.

So i looked at the task manager and CM was collecting(1.4g) more and more memory. So i saved the file continued on and then bang out of memory!

Re loaded the saved game and 2 turns later same again.

Win7 64b

8gig ram

quad core

512m G force 9800gt

drivers up to date

just for a computer thicko like me..why was the game not coded to utilise quad cores and 64b OS?

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Mr JRama.... you are exactly what Mr Culliton predicted...

A piece of info from Wiki ( i suppose Mr Culliton was not the writer):

"A memory leak, in computer science (or leakage, in this context), occurs when a computer program consumes memory but is unable to release it back to the operating system. A memory leak has symptoms similar to a number of other problems (see below) and generally can only be diagnosed by a programmer with access to the program source code; however, many people refer to any unwanted increase in memory usage as a memory leak, though this is not strictly accurate."

And now my dear Lt Bull, do you see what Mr Culliton was refering to?.... now think that he has to try to bring any of us back to an state of normality... time wasted for sure...and time lost to get the solution

Mr Bowlie: I doubt is an exclusive win7 issue, at least on my case is not (but my xp system is whatever but stable, too many things out of my control till my wife take over it), anyhow, sure the trying of it will bring more light (INFO) to this darkness

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Im guessing here.. that no one has really tried Huge Built up city maps, with Btn size or more, and most people are content with small scenerio maps. I guess I like testing the boundries, and found that I hit a huge wall wtih the capabilities here. however with CMx1 I used Regimental size for both sides and had no issues. Anyone have any ideas? Becuse this thread is going no where on actually coming up with solutions.

GhostRider - I'm working on diagnosing this problem now. If the problem can be found, and solutions come up with, it's very likely they won't be something easy that we can simply work out in a thread. I will attempt to keep you all updated as I go. So: keep an eye on this thread for updates from me.

Performance in CMx1 has very little to do with performance in CMx2. CMx2 is far more resource-intensive.

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Lt Bull - I see now that you're just looking for an argument. When "CM's problems can only be caused by bad programming" became "what? I didn't mean *you* guys are bad programmers" it should have been a clue for me.

Now you conveniently backpedal again - you go in one post from disagreeing with me with no technical or factual basis (and yes, your personal lack of knowledge does have bearing here), to the next, wondering where I got the idea that you're disagreeing with me (hint: search for the word "disagree" in your post, if you haven't edited it again). Engaging you simply seems to worsen your behavior, and as Dan Dare indicates is very likely not the best use of my time.

So, I will *stop* engaging with you. Your tickets will be answered, your information will be gratefully used, but further discussion regarding your advice or opinions about this problem is finished. I would ask again, very politely, that you confine your posts to actual facts.

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Lets just all hope Phil Culliton can find a solution to the problem. In the meantime, i think we should all just leave him to get on with it.

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