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Tank Hunter

List of Known Issues

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Abandoned tanks/guns SHOULD be allowed to be re-maned.... Think "Audie Murphy".

I have read many books where tank leaders with blown or immobilized tanks abandon their tank and take a tank from a green crew. THIS SHOULD be allowed.

Firing at tanks with small arms is stupid and breaks the game. You can try to use "realism gymnastics" to explain this away but you are wrong and it needs to be fixed.

Being allowed to target next unit or cycle through possible targets needs to be added.

Ammo sharing for mtr and mmg needs to be tweaked. I can't get anyone other then an "official" support team to carry ammo to a mtr that needs it. Why cant a HQ or rifle squad jump on the truck, acquire ammo, get off and then go share?

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Gun crews cant rejoin is by design. They also arent set up to be shielded from artillary and the like. Field guns are meant to sit way back and fire.

Silly.... Have you read any WW2 stories or AARs? There is no reason a crew can't set up a gun then leave it. They can go hunker down in a trench. Once the barrage is over run over to the gun and start plugging away.. completely historical.

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I suppose he's talking about the accuracy when the unit has been spotted but not the building againest the area fire.the issue seems long exist from the CMSF era,the small arm's area fire nearly can do little harm to the enemy except the surpressing effect but when a unit in building has been spotted and be targeted then,the incoming fire become deadly effective even the targeted unit has prone and seeking cover.

Yes, that's true, I was using area fire. I didn't realize aimed fire would be different. Thank you for pointing that out, it does explain a lot of what people have been seeing.

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Silly.... Have you read any WW2 stories or AARs? There is no reason a crew can't set up a gun then leave it. They can go hunker down in a trench. Once the barrage is over run over to the gun and start plugging away.. completely historical.

Indeed. If a crew had to bolt they'd dismantle the firing mechanism and take off, if they came back they'd re-install the mechanism and are good to go. (57mm gun at La Fiere bridge being a relevant example)

Not something that has come up in regular play for me, but if it did I'd rage a little.

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I am, occasionally and only when I have attempted RT play (at least I've only noticed it then) had tanks and other units suddenly plot a movement order and move.

This usually happens to tanks that are part of a particular unit which is engaged with the enemy, but the particular tank is not engaged and is most-definitely out of LOS from anything.

I have seen then suddenly back up a long distance for no obvious reason. I have seen them move laterally to the MLR using hunt and slow with no input from me. Again, they are always out of LOS (often of their own units as well).

In one slightly different case, I saw one move where I had set a waypoint. It then turned around, when back to where it started, turned around and then went off in another direction.

The other thing that often puzzles me is a tank that I have plotted waypoints for will begine moving through the way points, then will suddenly turn around (taking forever) and then finally turn back to the indicated way point and continue. I have looked and looked at the terrain, but I cannot figure out what is triggering their behaviour of turning around in the middle of a road and then continuing on. These are always solitary tanks, so it is not a case of conflicting movement.

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i haven't seen this mentioned in this thread, so i'm not sure it's an issue or not. regarding minefields and specifically the "mark mines" move order, my engies don't seem to do anything. they simply hide and/or spot as if they were given no order at all.

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The other half of their ammo is in their halftracks/trucks but dismounting them in the editor/QB purchase screen does not transfer ammo (and same is true for the dismounted PG armored battalion available under the infantry-only force setting in QBs).

Also, mortar ammo bearers don't carry ammo in QBs, which is probably why you are seeing them with no mortar ammo. For QBs (and the first time you hit deploy in the editor) the available ammo will all be with the mortar team.

Is this also true for AT guns? When doing setup in a QB; my AT guns always lose the ammo that the bearers carry when i move the AT gun from their orginal starting location. When I place the ammor bearers close (or on top of) the ATs new location, the AT gun does not regain that ammo.

This has also happened a few times with Mortars and the ammor their bearers carry.

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Is this also true for AT guns? When doing setup in a QB; my AT guns always lose the ammo that the bearers carry when i move the AT gun from their orginal starting location. When I place the ammor bearers close (or on top of) the ATs new location, the AT gun does not regain that ammo.

This has also happened a few times with Mortars and the ammor their bearers carry.

Are you sure it is lost? In QBs, all the ammo is with the weapon team, not divided between the weapon team and the ammo bearers.

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Are you sure it is lost? In QBs, all the ammo is with the weapon team, not divided between the weapon team and the ammo bearers.

Yes, before i moved the AT gun it had 48 AP rounds (at work, I'm guessing atm). After I moved it (and the bearer) the gun had about half the ammo (24 AP rounds).

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Yes, before i moved the AT gun it had 48 AP rounds (at work, I'm guessing atm). After I moved it (and the bearer) the gun had about half the ammo (24 AP rounds).

I had that happen too the first time I played the demo. The mortar team that started at the farm had double the usual load of ammo for a 60mm. As soon as I moved them more than a few feet, that ammo was lost. I assumed it was some sort of "stockpile" bonus ammo that couldn't be transported.

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I had that happen too the first time I played the demo. The mortar team that started at the farm had double the usual load of ammo for a 60mm. As soon as I moved them more than a few feet, that ammo was lost. I assumed it was some sort of "stockpile" bonus ammo that couldn't be transported.

The mortar didn't lose the ammo. It was close enough to another mortar to share ammo and so the total rounds for BOTH mortars is shown. If you move one mortar away, they can no longer share, so each mortar shows only its own ammo. This behavior had me fooled too.

Only mortars that are part of the same unit can share. I don't know if it is a bug or intended behavior, but if a mortar crew takes casualties it can lose its ability to share. I had two mortars side by side, one with 30 rounds and the other empty. The empty mortar showed 30 rounds due to sharing. The 30 round mortar took four casualties. The remaining crewman could no longer operate his mortar or share his 30 rounds with the empty mortar. Quite frustrating. Perhaps I should have shot him and collected the ammo through buddy-aid.

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The mortar didn't lose the ammo. It was close enough to another mortar to share ammo and so the total rounds for BOTH mortars is shown. If you move one mortar away, they can no longer share, so each mortar shows only its own ammo. This behavior had me fooled too.

Only mortars that are part of the same unit can share. I don't know if it is a bug or intended behavior, but if a mortar crew takes casualties it can lose its ability to share. I had two mortars side by side, one with 30 rounds and the other empty. The empty mortar showed 30 rounds due to sharing. The 30 round mortar took four casualties. The remaining crewman could no longer operate his mortar or share his 30 rounds with the empty mortar. Quite frustrating.

Although the addition of a stockpile option for stationary units would be great. Tanks used for preparatory bombardments would use ammunition stacked next to the tank for this part of the battle and then would use internal stores once on the move.

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Although the addition of a stockpile option for stationary units would be great. Tanks used for preparatory bombardments would use ammunition stacked next to the tank for this part of the battle and then would use internal stores once on the move.

Yes. I have petitioned BFC for stationary stockpiles of ammo that could be purchased for mortars, etc. The solution they currently have is vehicle stockpiles that can be accessed using the Acquire command.

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The mortar didn't lose the ammo. It was close enough to another mortar to share ammo and so the total rounds for BOTH mortars is shown. If you move one mortar away, they can no longer share, so each mortar shows only its own ammo.

This was the Road to Berlin scenario in the demo, where only 1 mortar started on the map.

Interestingly, before posting this reply I decided to run the demo again just to make sure. What I found was that the extra ammo for the mortar that started on the map was from the mortar that was due as a reinforcement on turn five. What's more, you could fire all the reinforcement mortar's ammo before it even arrived!

So it appears there's a minor bug in that a unit's ammo starts on the map where the unit will arrive later.

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"QB" again. It seems in selecting units you can delete formations but once you go to add special teams and vehicles they do not appear on the list of "Activated." Then if you make a simple error and go over the point count you must cancel and start over.

I checked the manual but see no way to delete a special unit or vehicle if you exceed the point count.

Sure it can be worked around by starting over but its annoying. This isn't friendly and very unlike CM1.

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Narses.... That rings a classical bell. Wasn't he that that Byzantine eunuch who became a great general? Around the time of Justinian? No inference, of course, on the state of your pudenda, Narses.

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Yes. I have petitioned BFC for stationary stockpiles of ammo that could be purchased for mortars, etc. The solution they currently have is vehicle stockpiles that can be accessed using the Acquire command.

It just occurred to me, with the bug you can do exactly that. I tried it out in the editor and it works perfectly.

Just add a few extra mortar teams to your weapons platoon, designate the extra mortars as reinforcements, schedule them to arrive after the scenario is over, then place them on the map and voilà! When your on map mortars move to the area where the future replacements are, the extra rounds show up in the on map mortars ammo count.

I've only tried it with the US 60mm mortars, but so far so good.

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Regarding the 60mm mortars, if players care about realism, the unit of issue was 220 rounds per mortar, divided this way:

Unit - 60

Trains - 60 (typically Division)

Upper echelon - 100 (corps or army supply depots or en route to trains)

The unit of fire (UoF) was noted to be 400 rounds, with the estimate of the manual being 1 UoF per day for most battle situations, except the 1st day of an offensive or of a defense, when the expenditure being estimated as 1.5 UoF per day on those days.

Data is from FM101-10 Organizational, Technical and Logistical Data 1941.

What I find interesting is that the 60mm mortars had a Unit of Issue that was approximately half of the Unit of Fire. Given that this data is from very early in the war, it is possible that the planners did not anticipate the degree to which the Army would eventually become almost totally motorized in the logistical components.

So if mortar ammo issued seems skimpy, there may have been doctrinal reasons for it, though for the life of me I cannot imagine why...perhaps they felt the 60mm mortars ammo was too heavy compared to its utility. But that was in '41 and I'm trying to find later data to see if it changed after wartime experience.

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"QB" again. It seems in selecting units you can delete formations but once you go to add special teams and vehicles they do not appear on the list of "Activated." Then if you make a simple error and go over the point count you must cancel and start over.

I checked the manual but see no way to delete a special unit or vehicle if you exceed the point count.

Sure it can be worked around by starting over but its annoying. This isn't friendly and very unlike CM1.

When you go to select special teams and vehicles look at the Activated units section and you will see a little golden arrow next to one of the formations you purchased. You can choose which formation by highlighting it and then returning to the Available troop section. When you purchase your special units they are added to this formation. You can see them by clicking on the "+" sign next to the formation. You can then delete them or do whatever you need.

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I have a couple suggestions: Could a "delete file" command be added to the saved game menu? My files are cropping up and, while I can navigate Windows and delete them that way, I'd like to have a simple button to click. We had the option in the CM1 series...

I've had a couple of facepalm moments when moving my tanks. I gave a tank a hunt order and noticed later that the crew had bailed out and proceeded on foot along the hunt order path. When I thought I had ordered the tank to "hunt," I had actually ordered the crew to bail out. What I didn't realize was that I had the special command panel selected instead of movement. I had ordered a machine gun team to deploy before selecting the tank. Having the "K" key bound to both commands in separate panels is the problem. I changed the hotkeys so this won't happen again, but I wonder how many times this has ruined a battle for others.

Pressing "O" while on the combat panel will select a target arc. If you switch to the movement panel and press "O" again, the "move" order will be selected. Is that a glitch?

Oh, and bring back the armor arcs!

Now, don't be so sensitive about this criticism, folks. I still love the game.

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1. Regarding re-mannable AT guns: This should IMO be looked into. There's gonna be problems for an eastern front game if it's not since Red Army practice was to have two adjacent foxholes for the crew and commander to hide in/retreat to until it was time to engage. Usually they took the optics with them as they were sparse/expensive and easily damaged by shelling.

2. Small arms vs armor: Again it's something that's a bit bothersome but should not be eliminated completely. It wasn't unusual AFAIK. Where there was a tank there were usually infantry and separating the infantry from the armor was key to isolating and destroying the tanks. Usually done by small arms fire against the vehicles combined with random mortar rounds in the vicinity. "Bullet magnets" are usually avoided by the infantry and the CMx2 engine does a well enough job in simulating this. Not saying that it shouldn't be looked over but nerfing it too hard might result in problems.

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Narses.... That rings a classical bell. Wasn't he that that Byzantine eunuch who became a great general? Around the time of Justinian? No inference, of course, on the state of your pudenda, Narses.

Your exactly right about Narses.

I was reading a book called "Hammer of the Goths" when I needed a log on name so I chose Narses and btw I'm about the same age as Narses when he made his mark as a great general replacing the even more famous Belasarius.

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When you go to select special teams and vehicles look at the Activated units section and you will see a little golden arrow next to one of the formations you purchased. You can choose which formation by highlighting it and then returning to the Available troop section. When you purchase your special units they are added to this formation. You can see them by clicking on the "+" sign next to the formation. You can then delete them or do whatever you need.

Appreciate that, thanks much its a big help.

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Firing at tanks with small arms is stupid and breaks the game. You can try to use "realism gymnastics" to explain this away but you are wrong and it needs to be fixed.

Stupid? That it was shown to be historically accurate and it is effective at reducing observation from Tanks (I have both used it and had the AI use it against me effectively) is "realism gymnastics"? There are definitely some nuances in behavior I would like to see modified (like getting an armor covered arc), but eliminating small arms fire against armor isn't one of them.

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Indeed. If a crew had to bolt they'd dismantle the firing mechanism and take off, if they came back they'd re-install the mechanism and are good to go. (57mm gun at La Fiere bridge being a relevant example)

Not something that has come up in regular play for me, but if it did I'd rage a little.

I would assume that in this instance if the original crew didn't come back the gun would continue to be inoperable as the firing mechanism would now be missing? Is that what we are asking BFC to code now, following the firing mechanism for each gun to insure who has it? Will we then ask that firing mechanisms be scrounged? And then make sure the scrounged firing mechanism be for the appropriate gun type? And then perhaps we can scrounge a damaged gun for a firing mechanism for an abandoned gun?

Pandora is laughing her britches off.

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