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GreenAsJade

Can't get units properly into foxholes/trenches

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At first I thought, with "abstract representation thinking" that it doesn't matter that it's difficult to make each individual man get into a foxhole, because surely the game knows that the squad is entrenched.

But reading about geometry blocking bullets etc, I'm thinking actually this is bad, right?

If you plonk a mortar unit into a foxhole, and half the guys are clustered around the mortar tube but not _in_ the foxhole, then those guys are really exposed. Ouch!

Same with trenches: it seems to be quite a trick to get all the men of a rifle squad into a trench... so the guys who line themselves outside the trench against it's "back wall" ... they seem to be worse off? Do trenches protect against HE? Are these guys who are "outside" the trench not protected in that way?

GaJ

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I had the same issue. I gave one of my squads move order stopping just short (on my side) of an enemy trench. They arrived, jumped into the trench for cover, then half jumped over the top and onto the far side (enemy side) of the trench and promptly got swiss-cheesed by a hidden enemy squad.

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Apparently, the 'Face' command can be used to get troops to occupy fortifications in a beneficial way. I'm guessing that if you put the squad on a fortified action point, then face them towards the long side of the trench, they'll point out that way, same as they do if they're in a room with multiple possible outlook directions.

Mortars in foxholes probably shouldn't be getting much protection, since the little scrapes aren't meant for mortars to be fired outof... that'd be a 'mortar pit' and significantly deeper.

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There's probably some more tweaking we need to do with placements, but as stated above... foxholes are not intended for crew served weapons. In real life this would be difficult to do with foxholes as it is in the game. You need a LOT of room to effectively work something like a mortar. Way more than you're going to get out of a foxhole.

Steve

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I'm not sure if the original question has been answered. If I have a squad occupying some foxholes but one member is not occupying a foxhole (even if one is available right next to him) then that one man does NOT receive the protection bonus of the foxhole, correct?

I was originally thinking that the game had little square tiles like CMx1 and that a soldier may be getting the protection since he is in a foxhole tile, but I get the impression that this is not the case if the damage model takes polygons into account.

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There's probably some more tweaking we need to do with placements, but as stated above... foxholes are not intended for crew served weapons. In real life this would be difficult to do with foxholes as it is in the game. You need a LOT of room to effectively work something like a mortar. Way more than you're going to get out of a foxhole.

Steve

Not to muddy the waters too much, but machinegun and mortar teams traditional dig special fighting positions when digging into a defensive position. Note:

http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/survival/fighting-position-design-.shtml

Would it be possible to include something like this, perhaps, when establishing defensive positions at the beginning of a QB or scenario?

Also, and perhaps I'm getting a little too detailed, but how about hasty defense positions? Perhaps if a unit is under fire and in a position for a period of time they might dig hasty positions (a la "ranger graves" and the like). This would not be out of the ordinary.

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I haven't had enough experience with them yet, but I think a foxhole (set of four holes) is meant to hold a team, not a whole squad, so you would need two or three foxholes to accommodate a whole squad, depending on the number of men in the squad. And the best way to get the whole squad in is to break it up into teams and place each team into a set of foxholes.

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I haven't had enough experience with them yet, but I think a foxhole (set of four holes) is meant to hold a team, not a whole squad, so you would need two or three foxholes to accommodate a whole squad, depending on the number of men in the squad. And the best way to get the whole squad in is to break it up into teams and place each team into a set of foxholes.

Yeah, this came up during the dissection of the WEGO VAAR. Each tile's worth of foxholes is for one squad. IIRC, 5-man squads will double up on one scrape, and yes, anyone outside their excavation doesn't get the bonus.

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I can totally accept not to put mortars in foxholes.

MGs should go in them though: surely that's exactly where MGs belong?

If we forget I mentioned these, it's the "everyone doesn't get in" problem I was really raising.

There's a related one: with trenches on a slope, the "top" half of each trench segment is pretty-much nothing: there's nothing (visually) there for the troop to get behind, because the sloping ground rises through the trench. Are the guys who position themselves in this place in the trench equally exposed?

GaJ

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And, while I'm here, what about ATGs in trenches? Once again, I thought this was totally a done thing in real life? At the moment my ATG has half it's leg sticking out of the trench, is this bad?

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And, while I'm here, what about ATGs in trenches? Once again, I thought this was totally a done thing in real life? At the moment my ATG has half it's leg sticking out of the trench, is this bad?

There is, I believe, a "Sandbagged Emplacement" which is what ATGs and HMGs are prolly meant to go in. Foxholes are/should be, in my estimation, only really useful for sqaud-type weapons: small arms, LMGs and infantry AT. Stuff that can be used lying down.

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