Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • Battlefront.com

      Special Upgrade 4 Tech Tips   12/27/2016

      Hi all! Now that Upgrade 4 is out and about in large quantities we have now discovered a few SNAFUs that happen out in the scary, real world that is home computing.  Fortunately the rate of problems is extremely small and so far most are easily worked around.  We've identified a few issues that have similar causes which we have clear instructions for work arounds here they are: 1.  CMRT Windows customers need to re-license their original key.  This is a result of improvements to the licensing system which CMBN, CMBS, and CMFB are already using.  To do this launch CMRT with the Upgrade and the first time enter your Engine 4 key.  Exit and then use the "Activate New Products" shortcut in your CMRT folder, then enter your Engine 3 license key.  That should do the trick. 2.  CMRT and CMBN MacOS customers have a similar situation as #2, however the "Activate New Products" is inside the Documents folder in their respective CM folders.  For CMBN you have to go through the process described above for each of your license keys.  There is no special order to follow. 3.  For CMBS and CMFB customers, you need to use the Activate New Products shortcut and enter your Upgrade 4 key.  If you launch the game and see a screen that says "LICENSE FAILURE: Base Game 4.0 is required." that is an indication you haven't yet gone through that procedure.  Provided you had a properly functioning copy before installing the Upgrade, that should be all you need to do.  If in the future you have to install from scratch on a new system you'll need to do the same procedure for both your original license key and your Upgrade 4.0 key. 4.  There's always a weird one and here it is.  A few Windows users are not getting "Activate New Products" shortcuts created during installation.  Apparently anti-virus software is preventing the installer from doing its job.  This might not be a problem right now, but it will prove to be an issue at some point in the future.  The solution is to create your own shortcut using the following steps: Disable your anti-virus software before you do anything. Go to your Desktop, right click on the Desktop itself, select NEW->SHORTCUT, use BROWSE to locate the CM EXE that you are trying to fix. The location is then written out. After it type in a single space and then paste this:

      -showui

      Click NEXT and give your new Shortcut a name (doesn't matter what). Confirm that and you're done. Double click on the new Shortcut and you should be prompted to license whatever it is you need to license. At this time we have not identified any issues that have not been worked around.  Let's hope it stays that way Steve
    • Battlefront.com

      Forum Reorganization   10/12/2017

      We've reorganized our Combat Mission Forums to reflect the fact that most of you are now running Engine 4 and that means you're all using the same basic code.  Because of that, there's no good reason to have the discussion about Combat Mission spread out over 5 separate sets of Forums.  There is now one General Discussion area with Tech Support and Scenario/Mod Tips sub forums.  The Family specific Tech Support Forums have been moved to a new CM2 Archives area and frozen in place. You might also notice we dropped the "x" from distinguishing between the first generation of CM games and the second.  The "x" was reluctantly adopted back in 2005 or so because at the time we had the original three CM games on European store shelves entitled CM1, CM2, and CM3 (CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK).  We didn't want to cause confusion so we added the "x".  Time has moved on and we have to, so the "x" is now gone from our public vocabulary as it has been from our private vocabulary for quite a while already.  Side note, Charles *NEVER* used the "x" so now we're all speaking the same language as him.  Which is important since he is the one programming them
Sign in to follow this  
Kelly's Heros

Fundamental flaw in onboard mortar targeting

Recommended Posts

Mortar firing all over the map, not even close to where HQ target is, repeatedly happens across multiple fire missions. I don't believe mortar team can be that far off.

This needs to be fixed or mortars are useless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mortars useless? Wow, well, tell that to the guys on my side who got waxed by the AI mortars. I mean absolutely hammered. I have also used them to very good effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mortar firing all over the map, not even close to where HQ target is, repeatedly happens across multiple fire missions. I don't believe mortar team can be that far off

this can happen if you had smoke drift through the sight line of the spotter, but so often, it sounds like a bug to me.

@Blackcat

other threads talk about mortars in direct fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've only seen this once but it did seem further off than what you would expect. What really drew my attention was that the spotting rounds seemed to be where you would expect them, but then the "fire for effect" rounds landed in a different spot all together. Specifically, I called a point target on the AT gun in the Road to Berlin scenario and my rounds landed almost off the map. I've only seen this one time out of a couple dozen fire missions, so I wouldn't say its broken or anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed that if the spotter is under fire the accuracy usually sucks.

BTW if you order firemision as "emergency" is there accuracy penalty for it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I noticed that if the spotter is under fire the accuracy usually sucks.

BTW if you order firemision as "emergency" is there accuracy penalty for it?

Definitely, they start fire for effect immediately, and that can be off.

It is sort of a gamble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I already reported this a couple of days ago.

For me there's at last a 50% chance that mortars in a fire-mission, be it preliminary or during the battle, will lob their first 3-5 shells up to 180° away from the target and will then turn to do the "proper" fire-mission.

This mostly happens during preliminary fire-missions which are supposed to have perfect accuracy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have played Road to Berlin now twice in a row, in two back-to-back games, spotter had rounds falling on the target and mortars shifted to off the map fire. This also occurred between fire missions in the same game. I think this is definitely a bug OR we need to understand how the mortar team can be that far off from target.

I can see rounds missing by 100 yds, but this was half the map away. Since others are noticing it too, I would say it is not just my games either.

In the first game, I lost because I ran out of ammo and could not destroy the gun, in the second game, I was more sensitive to it and started watching my mortar targeting. From the HQ perspective, the mortar was targeted properly, however, from the mortar teams perspective, the target aim was way off the map.

Yes I heard that coordinating mortars in WW2 was challenging, but this is a little too far off. To mitigate this situation, until it is looked at by Battlefront, I recommend you check your mortars aim during spotting and fire mode and if they are off track, cancel the mission, move the mortar, and try again. I also moved my spotter and this seemed to help. The other thing I did notice is that it doesn't happen if you choose area fire. It only appeared to be a problem with Point fire.

Sounds suspicious to me :-)

I did finally win the Road to Berlin on Warrior with a total victory once I figure out how to use the mortar teams.

Good Hunting everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The other thing I did notice is that it doesn't happen if you choose area fire. It only appeared to be a problem with Point fire.

I didn't have any problems with mortars completely missing their target area yet, I've only had mortars fire their first 3-5 rounds off map or even as close as 20 m away from said mortars. After that they switch to the correct target for me.

Also, it doesn't matter which type of fire I choose, be it point, area or line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had no problems with mortars.

I suspect though that if you have incoming in say 3 minutes and smoke/dust obscures the spotters view say 2 minutes out then obviously he would be unable to see the spotting rounds and consequently cannot make adjustments.

I learnt this in CMBB and CMAK where this very thing would occur,in the desert with all that dust it could become quite tricky getting rounds on target.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just had an errant mortar mission. It was an Emergency request, but look at the picture and you can see they weren't set up for firing. Look out Sgt. Hulka!

All right, soldier, let's see

how you fire that mortar.

- What coordinates, sir?

- Coordinates?

Yes, sir. They determine

where the mortar's...

Soldier, the Army has spent a lot of

money teaching you how to fire that.

Now set it and fire it.

- We don't know where the shell's...

- The only way to learn is to do it!

Now fire the weapon.

All right!

I don't know how to make the pic bigger, but the blue line was my linear request and the orange arc is where they fired 50 seconds into the round. If you enlarge the pic you can see all the little yellow mortar rounds heading to the corner of the map - not even close to the target!

post-3356-141867622558_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The 60mm's blew sh%^ out of everything I targeted. Didn't see any truly wild rounds. You sure you're doing it right?

Had no problems with mortars.

I suspect though that if you have incoming in say 3 minutes and smoke/dust obscures the spotters view say 2 minutes out then obviously he would be unable to see the spotting rounds and consequently cannot make adjustments.

I learnt this in CMBB and CMAK where this very thing would occur,in the desert with all that dust it could become quite tricky getting rounds on target.

As already said, this even happens with preliminary strikes, which rules out any kind of outside influence.

It's an obvious bug in the mortar targeting system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I find odd about the targetting is that the spotting rounds can land, seemingly, pretty much anywhere. Makes spotting them a pain, and even if they are half the map away, the 'effect' fire can still be right on the money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had similar problem with the German 81mm being way off. The FO then did the only sensible thing to be done when you don't know where the spotting rounds are landing and called fire for effect. Which landed nowhere close. I don't think hedgerows make for easy arty spotting.

My arty guys were probably all deaf anyway and it was just a C2 feature.

"Hans, target bearing 062"

"roger, target bearing 247"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I don't know how to make the pic bigger, but the blue line was my linear request and the orange arc is where they fired 50 seconds into the round. If you enlarge the pic you can see all the little yellow mortar rounds heading to the corner of the map - not even close to the target!"

Having enlarged your picture I am confused. The target line runs along the road behind the tall bocage hedgerow. I can't see that any of your units would have a line of site to both ends of that line. Can you tell us which unit did the spotting for that strike amd how you managed to plot it?

Thanks in advance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just had an errant mortar mission. It was an Emergency request, but look at the picture and you can see they weren't set up for firing. Look out Sgt. Hulka!

All right, soldier, let's see

how you fire that mortar.

- What coordinates, sir?

- Coordinates?

Yes, sir. They determine

where the mortar's...

Soldier, the Army has spent a lot of

money teaching you how to fire that.

Now set it and fire it.

- We don't know where the shell's...

- The only way to learn is to do it!

Now fire the weapon.

All right!

I don't know how to make the pic bigger, but the blue line was my linear request and the orange arc is where they fired 50 seconds into the round. If you enlarge the pic you can see all the little yellow mortar rounds heading to the corner of the map - not even close to the target!

Unfortunately, the game currently doesn't distinguish between spotters that are co-located with the firing unit and spotters that are distant from the unit. If you ordered an "emergency" mission (this means no spotting rounds are fired, the firing unit simply makes their best guess at what target the spotter wants to hit and starts firing), the above outcome would be totally logical for a spotter and mortar team that were far apart and didn't know exactly where each other were on the map (remember no GPS back then), but when the spotter is right next to the mortar and can point "that way, 100m!", it definitely seems bizarre.

Regardless, you should be very, very wary of using "emergency" type missions. The outcomes are always unpredictable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stand down on my last. I have just checked this out in a saved game in which I have an HQ unit in almost exactly the same place as the highlight unit in your picture. There is a gap in the Bocage which gives a view to the right of the line and I can get a partial view (grey line) to almost but not quite the left end, but no where in between.

I wonder if this poor vision of the target end point has soemthing to do with the behaviour you saw. It is worth noting that the line from the HQ unit to the left end of the line goes straight through a tall bocage tile and there is no break at that point and I think no LOS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the on-map mortars the amount of distance they can miss by is truly surprising.

Not seeking perfection but when the spotter is 20m away (visual and voice), immediate superior, no pressure the amount of time it takes to get the first rounds away then adjust them if they do actually commence firing a long way off target is frustrating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had two fire missions last night land about 50 meters from where they were targeted. They were during play.

The first one I ordered in the Road to Berlin scenario was a line and it worked fine. The other two where area targets and both landed well wide of the target.

I actually thought they might have been from the opposition as I double checked my targeting and the spots were still there even as the tubes were firing. I think they might have been at emergency where as the first one wasn't, but I can't be 100% sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For the on-map mortars the amount of distance they can miss by is truly surprising.

Not seeking perfection but when the spotter is 20m away (visual and voice), immediate superior, no pressure the amount of time it takes to get the first rounds away then adjust them if they do actually commence firing a long way off target is frustrating.

I am begining to feel a bit left out, I have not had any problems with odd behaviour from my mortars. They haven't been super accurate and they haven't done anything super daft either. What am I doing wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×