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Vanir Ausf B

Osama Bin Ladin Has Been Killed

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Religion is the last thing humanity needs to retain as it progresses towards the future. Talk about debunking things... the major influences on peoples minds are of ancient and moronic origins. Get rid of religion and perhaps folks can get along better between the East and the West. That takes education, not bombs.

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OK, granting 9/11 was not an inside job, how do you justify the illegal invasion of two countries and the subsequent death and torture of hundreds of thousands of people based on that criminal act? Now that the dubious official story claims OBL is dead we have brought justice to the crime and can now return home to live peacefully once more... right? What a joke...

There have still been over 1000 attempted "Islamic" attacks in the USA since 9-11, and over 17000 in the world since then. As I prepare to go BACK over, AGAIN, in a couple of weeks, it is definitely my hope that it ends, but it cannot end while one side is continuing to fight.

Also as a side note, the numbers of "hundreds of thousands" of death and torture has been debunked as well, these are numbers based upon what the enemy has said, and many thousands of the purported 'victims' have been found, to have been killed by the previous regimes,rather than by western military action.

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Well lets home the need to be over there is brief AB and you can get back to the US - to torment us : )

I don't know where you get your figures from AB but these are from Wikipedia, and include US figures courtesy of Wikileaks

Source Iraqi casualties Time period Iraq Family Health Survey 151,000 deaths March 2003 to June 2006

Lancet survey 601,027 violent deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths March 2003 to June 2006

Opinion Research Business survey 1,033,000 deaths as a result of the conflict March 2003 to August 2007

Associated Press 110,600 deaths March 2003 to April 2009

Iraq Body Count project 98,170 — 107,152 civilian deaths as a result of the conflict. 150,726 civilian and combatant deaths[1] March 2003 to October 2010

WikiLeaks. Classified Iraq war logs[1][2][3][4] 104,924 recorded iraqi deaths, including 92,003[5] (or 66,081[6]) civilian deaths. January 2004 to December 2009

You say

but it cannot end while one side is continuing to fight.
- does that mean when the US leaves that will end the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think you are being optimistic. But it may well reduce any US based attacks

As for the terrorist attacks can you give the sources for the information.

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Hey Diesel,

Yes..much more fun antagonizing you guys on the board, than getting shot at or dodging IEDs :-)

I agree with the number slightly over 100k..which is why I doubted the numbers of hundredS of thousands...still, amazing how many different figures there are. And quite a lot of those were killed, not as a result of combat by western (read, American and British,primarily) forces, but by the lawlessness which almost instantly appeared (obvious to anyone with a brain, but somehow missed by such as Rumsfeld) once the existing government was removed, and various tribal prejudices reared their ugly heads.

While these casualties may have been caused indirectly by the invasion, they were not directly..and even the 'indirect' argument is something close to a person who sneaks into a house to commit a murder against its sleeping occupants, claiming that the occupants really were at fault for not having better security...never mind the fact here, that the former Iraqi regime killed ,tortured, and beat, more in the years before the war, than were killed during the war.

Still, sorry for pulling the thread so far off its topic, it was about bin Laden..I for one am glad the guy is dead.

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abneo3sierra,

Well then, you could always try and stop things by not going to an Islamic country to fight. Maybe start a trend?:)

As to the number of "attempted Islamic" attacks, first thing, that's what the Feds tell us. I see no reason to believe them without corroborating evidence.

Second, just count the bodies. Dead Americans vs. dead people over there. The survivors over there, they're not going to be convinced you're helping them, pretty much no matter what you do. Pretty much ever one has seen people just like you (in their eyes) kill, maim, and ruin the property of people just like them.

So I'm pretty much as pessimistic as you. Just a question of time before the Americans get sick of it all or run out of money and they pull the plug.

You keep your head down and good luck.

There have still been over 1000 attempted "Islamic" attacks in the USA since 9-11, and over 17000 in the world since then. As I prepare to go BACK over, AGAIN, in a couple of weeks, it is definitely my hope that it ends, but it cannot end while one side is continuing to fight.

Also as a side note, the numbers of "hundreds of thousands" of death and torture has been debunked as well, these are numbers based upon what the enemy has said, and many thousands of the purported 'victims' have been found, to have been killed by the previous regimes,rather than by western military action.

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Get rid of religion

As much as I see/hear people go on and on about how bad religion is and about how stupid and hateful religious people are, I have yet to see/hear anyone actually go all the way (so to speak) with the basic anti-religion thought. If one takes the statement "religion is evil" to its logical conclusion, one arrives at a getting rid of religion. But one ought to think long and hard about all that getting rid of religion would involve. It would involve destroying all religious books (or at least locking them away, as if they were ink-and-paper bombs), demolishing all religious buildings (even the great cathedrals and such, which now are more tourist attractions than houses of worship), and imprisoning all religious people (i.e. those who refused to renounce their beliefs). So basically getting rid of religion would involve temporarily going Nazi on a world-wide scale. <good-natured sarcasm> But hey, if that's what it takes to ensure those who don't care for religion never have to see, hear, or even think about it ever again, then go right ahead. =) </good-natured sarcasm>

If I had the opportunity to interview Richard Dawkins, one question I put to him would be: "Mr. Dawkins — given your stance regarding religion and the fact that religion is responsible for much harm throughout the world and throughout history, would you be in support of an actual ban on religion? If yes, would you concur that such a ban ought to be in effect worldwide?"

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I do not think that "going nazi" on religion is the best way to get rid of it. I think, and I mentioned before, that it takes education. More science literacy in the world, and I mean more ingrained scientific method within our minds (see General Semantics), would help to create a generation of people who are not taught to blindly follow some invisible tyrant all seeing and immoral deity but who use their actual senses in order to navigate the world. Not saying it would end war and violence, but I would be willing to wager that it would drop enormously. If the people are well educated with scientific values then they will likely just throw away the old holy books themselves, retaining some for historic values. Creating museums dedicated to the religious chapters in human history lol OK sorry now I am just daydreaming :P

Check out this little clip:

(kill the music too unless you like it)

take from it what you will.

Oh and AB good luck out there... Get them Taliban *******s! As much as I like to play devils advocate, I am firmly on the US side of things.

As much as I see/hear people go on and on about how bad religion is and about how stupid and hateful religious people are, I have yet to see/hear anyone actually go all the way (so to speak) with the basic anti-religion thought. If one takes the statement "religion is evil" to its logical conclusion, one arrives at a getting rid of religion. But one ought to think long and hard about all that getting rid of religion would involve. It would involve destroying all religious books (or at least locking them away, as if they were ink-and-paper bombs), demolishing all religious buildings (even the great cathedrals and such, which now are more tourist attractions than houses of worship), and imprisoning all religious people (i.e. those who refused to renounce their beliefs). So basically getting rid of religion would involve temporarily going Nazi on a world-wide scale. <good-natured sarcasm> But hey, if that's what it takes to ensure those who don't care for religion never have to see, hear, or even think about it ever again, then go right ahead. =) </good-natured sarcasm>

If I had the opportunity to interview Richard Dawkins, one question I put to him would be: "Mr. Dawkins — given your stance regarding religion and the fact that religion is responsible for much harm throughout the world and throughout history, would you be in support of an actual ban on religion? If yes, would you concur that such a ban ought to be in effect worldwide?"

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I do not think that "going nazi" on religion is the best way to get rid of it.

It is not about religion it never has been, religion simply provides "authorisation" if you like for the evils of people.

Of the many millions of Muslims in the world a slim few of them use the tenants of their religion to do bad things.

Same for Christianity there are those who do terrible things and cover it as God's work.

Totally apart from the logistical hurdles faced by expunging religion like burning books and churches, how are you going to get the notion out of peoples heads?

"Removing religion" will not solve anything it will just make people look for something else to believe in.

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I concur, Magpie_Oz; and the points you made were implicit in what I sought to convey.

"Removing religion" will not solve anything

But that's just it: Critics/opponents of religion imply that if there were no religion, there'd be less brainwashing (being told to believe and do the supposed bidding of a "sky bully"), mutilation (female circumcision), murder (honor killing), terrorism, war, genocide, etc.

Scientists, philosophers, pundits, and comedians (many of them well-educated and intellectual white guys; show me the Tibetans who decry Buddhism or the Japanese who decry Shinto! =P) in recent decades have merely taken advantage of the anathematic name religion in general has earned for itself. "Religion", "Christian", "Muslim", etc. have effectively become four-letter words. And to top it all off, those are already areligious themselves have nothing to lose by denouncing religion.

Then again, if religion were done away with, pundits and comedians would have a lot less to mock and rail against. =P

(For the record: I'm not anti-religion; I'm not anti-science. In my previous post I simply used sarcastic hyperbole to make a point.)

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It is not about religion it never has been, religion simply provides "authorisation" if you like for the evils of people.

It certainly does that. But Christianity, and Islam in particular do much more than just that. They avoid the truth. If you don't believe that the Bible or the Quran is the literal word of god than you are not actually a believer and are just being dishonest if you say you are. Without those holy books as representations of the divine word of god than the religions have no basis for existence. They are just another fiction on the shelf. This is not to say you cannot learn anything from fiction, but what is the point in pretending to know answers to profound questions without actually knowing?

I think it is quite in our human nature to fight, but maybe, just maybe if we can get these ancient and obsolete religions out of our systems we can have some proper, honest fights, for honest reasons. Raw, greedy bickering with no imagined "authorizations" from some divine source.

I think that the core essence of the teachings of the Buddha and of Lao Tzu and Kuo Hsiang are the best models of spirituality that have been invented so far. They do not suppose of some imaginary entity influencing our lives and are fully compatible with the scientific method.

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