Russian front

[Erik Springelkamp]

From the movie Enemy at the Gates:

"The man without the rifle follows the man with the rifle. When the man with the rifle gets shot, the man without the rifle should pick it up and begin shooting. The man without the rifle must follow the man with the rifle..."

I think the TAC AI for these guys would behave a little different from a GI paratrooper dropping with 120 pounds of equipment on D-Day.

But not because of nationality, but because of the equipment the team has.

Actually I think CMx2 already can show this behaviour: men in the same team keep together anyway, and if the one with the rifle is shot, the other will recover the rifle. No need for specific AI behaviour, although one could argue that buddy aid might be speeded up a little under such conditions.

[Krautman]

Latest iteration of the plan that was announced was

Soon to be released:

CMBN, covering normdany through to market garden (2-3 modules planned, adding extra TO&E)

Definitely planned:

CM: first east front title, covering bagration (2-3 modules to get everything in)

CM: Battle of the Bulge, which with modules added should cover up to the end of the war

CMSF2, balanced red v blue modern warfare

Things it has been said are vaguely planned:

1-2 more east front titles (plus modules)

Too bad no East Front 41-42 title is definitely planned. I really prefer nice squeaky T-26s and Pz 38(t)As to big cats and 34/85s. Hail to the tin can!

[Sequoia]

Too bad no East Front 41-42 title is definitely planned. I really prefer nice squeaky T-26s and Pz 38(t)As to big cats and 34/85s. Hail to the tin can!

Well it is the present plan to do 4 Ostfront games:

1st Bagration June '44 to war's end

2nd Kursk July '43 to May '44 or about.

3rd May '42 though Stalingrad and June '43 or about.

4th June' 41 to April '42 or about.

Note this is really only very early planning on Battlefront's part. I seem to recall the plan is also to have much of the development will be done by a Russian team (Snowball?) but I won't swear to that.

[Renaud]

I'd love to see something done that hasn't been covered many times before. There are so many interesting actions out there that are overlooked. Ideas: cherkassy (korsun) pocket; novorossisk; Crimea april-July 42 (Sevastopol, etc); caucasus mts (elbrus, taupse).

Cherkassy might be the best of the lot, featuring a wide range of units and vehicles, high intensity combat (especially the breakout), and cliffhanger suspense (things could have gone far differently at many decision points in the battle), and the time scale is just a few weeks. Admittedly I'm biased having just completed nash's Hell's Gate, an amazing read.

[Krautman]

Well it is the present plan to do 4 Ostfront games:

1st Bagration June '44 to war's end

2nd Kursk July '43 to May '44 or about.

3rd May '42 though Stalingrad and June '43 or about.

4th June' 41 to April '42 or about..

I wish they would proceed chronologically. Is the general gamers' preference/sell-ability with late war games then? I always found lots of opponents who were willing to take me on in summer '41 battles. Wait - maybe that was because I chose the Axis...

[Sergei]

I wish they would proceed chronologically. Is the general gamers' preference/sell-ability with late war games then?

If you were first developing games with 1944-45 Germans and Western Allies, and then were going to move onto East Front, you would pick a time period where you could use those same late war Germans (a good part of them, anyway, plus some L&L Shermans). Doing it any other way just wouldn't be efficient, meaning it would considerably delay the game. I think you'd prefer to have a late war game sooner than an early war game later! (Did I confuse you yet? )

[Krautman]

I think you'd prefer to have a late war game sooner than an early war game later! (Did I confuse you yet? )

Well, to be honest, it was not until the second reading that the lightbulb appeared on my head... And yes, you're absolutely right, I do prefer an early late war game to a late early war game.

Lately, however, I've come to realise - early enough - that I'd wish for an early war game which comes earlier, in summer at the latest, later to be followed by a late war game, to be published as early as next winter.

[Battlefront.com]

Just to chime in a bit here...

Sergei is quite correct about the sensibility of leveraging what we have to get you guys something new instead of starting from scratch. It's far more efficient, and cost effective, to combine things we've already done with new stuff.

Taking CM:BN's German component as a base (it's not a perfect overlap, mind you) and adding 1944 era units means getting the first Eastern Front game out in about 1/2 the time as it would take to get out a 41/42 or 42/43, or 43/44 game out the door. And after we have a 44/45 game done there will be maybe 25% development overlap with the 43/44 game, which in turn probably has a 25% overlap with the 42/43 game, and in turn a 25% overlap with 41/42.

Note that I'm talking about the core, mandatory stuff like voices, soldier models, weapon models, common vehicles, common AT Guns, etc. There's still PLENTY of new stuff to add. But if we went all the way back to 1941/42 we'd have to do much more basic stuff and that would mean reducing how much of the less common stuff we added.

Steve

[Michael Emrys]

And we all crave the less common stuff, don't we?

Michael

[ZPB II]

Speaking of the Eastern Front, just yesterday I came across these great documentaries on Youtube, they're Russian so it's interesting to see things from that perspective. Not to mention the series is very visceral, lots of re-enactment scenes and CGI. Very gripping, I watched Barbarossa, Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad in one sitting, now I'm working on Kursk with Bagration coming next. Some absolutely spectacular stuff.

I'm highly recommending this, remember to turn the subtitles on from the CC button, the sentence structure is in Russian but with English words, I found it easy to understand, not to mention it's a great aid if you're interested in learning Russian.

Here's a link to part 1 of the first episode, Barbarossa. The series is titled "Great War", I think. So just search for great war + the battle you want to watch, or do as I did and watch them all. Can't recommend this stuff enough. The perspective is a real eye-opener.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gb-jbVWn30

[Andrew H.]

Just to chime in a bit here...

But if we went all the way back to 1941/42 we'd have to do much more basic stuff and that would mean reducing how much of the less common stuff we added.

Steve

I'm a big fan of early war, but starting with Bagration would probably be easier for non-grogs than dealing with T-26s and BT-7s vs. Pz. IIs and 35ts.

[DLaurier]

Speaking of the Eastern Front, just yesterday I came across these great documentaries on Youtube, they're Russian so it's interesting to see things from that perspective. Not to mention the series is very visceral, lots of re-enactment scenes and CGI. Very gripping, I watched Barbarossa, Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad in one sitting, now I'm working on Kursk with Bagration coming next. Some absolutely spectacular stuff.

I'm highly recommending this, remember to turn the subtitles on from the CC button, the sentence structure is in Russian but with English words, I found it easy to understand, not to mention it's a great aid if you're interested in learning Russian.

Here's a link to part 1 of the first episode, Barbarossa. The series is titled "Great War", I think. So just search for great war + the battle you want to watch, or do as I did and watch them all. Can't recommend this stuff enough. The perspective is a real eye-opener.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gb-jbVWn30

thankyou.

And appearantly "thankyou" is to short to post.

[panzermartin]

Speaking of the Eastern Front, just yesterday I came across these great documentaries on Youtube, they're Russian so it's interesting to see things from that perspective. Not to mention the series is very visceral, lots of re-enactment scenes and CGI. Very gripping, I watched Barbarossa, Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad in one sitting, now I'm working on Kursk with Bagration coming next. Some absolutely spectacular stuff.

I'm highly recommending this, remember to turn the subtitles on from the CC button, the sentence structure is in Russian but with English words, I found it easy to understand, not to mention it's a great aid if you're interested in learning Russian.

Here's a link to part 1 of the first episode, Barbarossa. The series is titled "Great War", I think. So just search for great war + the battle you want to watch, or do as I did and watch them all. Can't recommend this stuff enough. The perspective is a real eye-opener.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gb-jbVWn30

I thought I was fed up with WW2 docs but this approach is quite refreshing. Seems very accurate and objective too. Thanks for the heads up!

[DMS]

From the movie Enemy at the Gates:

"The man without the rifle follows the man with the rifle. When the man with the rifle gets shot, the man without the rifle should pick it up and begin shooting. The man without the rifle must follow the man with the rifle..."

I think the TAC AI for these guys would behave a little different from a GI paratrooper dropping with 120 pounds of equipment on D-Day.

Are you serious? This is just a movie ! There were no 1 rifle per 5 men, and no NKVD units were shooting in fleeing soldiers .

Now I am afraid to see NKVD zagradotryadi in Russian organizational structure

.

[Erwin]

While the financial logic of starting with late war and working backwards is understandable. It seems that most gamers are less interested in the "pea-shooter" units from 1940/1941 and it could actually harm sales numbers as the series goes from 44 to 43 to 42 etc.

I worry that the conclusion will be that "not enuff people are interested in that era" and we'll never get to 1942 and 1941.

It seems that the business plan for all other game series that I know about is to add more powerful and sexy weapons systems as the incentive to buy more modules - NOT to to backwards to crappier systems.