CM:BN Beta AAR/DAR Bois de Baugin - German side

[vincere]

Ohhhh...ohhhhh.....maybe we can have a note when they are done for the day so I dont keep on refreshing like a nutjob!

German....we are waiting your write up!!!

SCHNELLLLL!!!!!!!

Yes, and let us know if your like out of town for a day or two. I don't want to be disappointed on booting up after work

[LongLeftFlank]

[Battlefront.com]

The answer to the question about the Unit Info (and other stuff) along the bottom is the version these guys are playing is a bit older and only about 1/2 of the UI artwork and tweaks were in at the time. We thought it best not to show people a mix-mosh of CM:BN and placeholder CM:SF graphics when we have, in fact, replaced almost everything already.

They could, if they wanted, mod their version with the new graphics but there are code changes that would make those look... icky

Steve

[Kwazydog]

Those bright CMBO-like graphics will be improved??? Or, are we relying on the army of volunteer mod makers again?

I think your referring to the off map grass there...if so I have requested that it match the on map grass (this requires a code tweak). Remember we are still in beta guys

[JonS]

2: Ten Minutes of Probing

The first ten minutes pass pretty quietly. All my off-map artillery arrives shortly after the 5-minute mark, and Elvis starts moving up with what must be small portions of his overall force.

(larger image)

The above is at minute 7 – there’s a platoon on the left, one on the right, and a couple of MGs on the lateral road. There’s no main effort apparent yet, but it certainly doesn’t look like he’ll be coming up the middle. Those spotting icons near the top edge were Shermans that made an early appearance, promptly obliterated a sniper pair on Hill 154, then vanished. After that salutary lesson, I pulled an HMG team next to the ex-snipers back into the woods, and sidestepped them over to the edge of the map, setting up further inside the treeline in the hope they’d still be able to see reasonably well, but wouldn’t be left hanging out in the breeze.

A few minutes later at minute 9, and the fog of war is lifting:

(larger image)

That’s an awful lot of activity, heading directly for Hill 154 and the Bois de Baugin. Time to bring up some reinforcements:

(larger image)

I’d earlier moved one of the Jg.Pz.IVs up onto the high ground next to the Bois de Baugin to overwatch the open ground in front of la Campagne. It also meant I could Hide the 50mm PaK tucked into the wood, just inside the treeline there on the right-hand edge of the image above. That means the PaK should stay hidden for longer, and unmask at a good time later on.

With the US forces massing on the right flank, I decided to Hunt the Jg.Pz. through the standing wheat in the field just over the fence, forward to a point where he’d be able to look down on the lateral track. The Jg.Pz. has pretty good frontal armour, and should be able to safely absorb a fair amount of punishment. Also, by moving along the edge of the safe treeline the thinner side armour is protected, at least from that direction.

Here’s the position at the end of minute 10:

(larger image)

The Jg.Pz.IV (circled and labelled ‘The Hunter’) has moved forward to the edge of the wheat field, from where it can see three Shermans in the field over the lateral track. The timing was accidentally impressive – The Hunter arrived right at the end of the minute. The first 10 minutes were quiet, but the next 60 seconds are going to be exciting!

[Runaway!!!]

Light those zippos up!!

[Jaws]

Light those zippos up!!

I think they called the Shermans "Ronsons" and not zippo's

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Unless BFC have just made the quickest backtrack ever and included flamethowing Sherman Zippos. In which case: Hooray!

Probably not though.

[scottie]

I think they called the Shermans "Ronsons" and not zippo's

Wasn't its both depending on the predominate "lighter" of where the person was from ?

[~Viajero]

Given the latest position of the Jg.Pz.IV somehow I feel this picture will be part of the next installment...

[panzermartin]

I see top down trees and a hint of 3D in distant tree models! Btw is there an "underbrush" texture to make wood terrain more solid looking when shadows disappear with distance?

[scottie]

Regarding the placement of the reserve (im sure this is a good idea but in theory) its just i have always found having a reserve to the rear of the front line means when moving a reserve forward it will take all sorts of fire before it gets into position and therefore its weaker and less effective than it would have been if dug in in the first place. I have found im better off having them in a dug in , deployed in position in the first place with good LOS and as many guns on target as possible (aka Napoleon mass your arty) creating one mass brawl at first contact. Moving infantry forward needs plenty of cover behind your defensive position to manoeuvre i guess. Granted i normally play AI too which is a different beast and i certainly am not as skilled as many

[undead reindeer cavalry]

I think your referring to the off map grass there...if so I have requested that it match the on map grass (this requires a code tweak). Remember we are still in beta guys

i'm the last person to complain about graphics, but if you are going to do something about the look of that grass, consider also what the grass texture look like at those views where the camera is far above the terrain. detail texture is showing at too great distances or sumfink? it appears to give an unintended (i guess?) miniature table look (which may be cool for some players, perhaps me myself included) - like the map was a 1-2 meters wide board placed on lawn.

[panzermartin]

Yes, it would be nice if the "surrounding" grass texture and the horizon looked faded a bit. I also personally prefer the wargame table look of CMx1 than the fighting on a paper sheet of CMx2.

PS. Sorry for commenting on beta graphics but we regular posters here feel more or less like unofficial beta testers. Hope feedback is constructive

[Gryphonne]

i'm the last person to complain about graphics, but if you are going to do something about the look of that grass, consider also what the grass texture look like at those views where the camera is far above the terrain. detail texture is showing at too great distances or sumfink? it appears to give an unintended (i guess?) miniature table look (which may be cool for some players, perhaps me myself included) - like the map was a 1-2 meters wide board placed on lawn.

I hope the "underlying" grass texture is seperate so I can just make it black or somefink. I really miss the massive "clump" of terrain feel from CMx1 (just look at the map sideways); if you look at the map sideways in CMx2, at the edges you'll see that the world is paper thin. It looks rather silly imho; but I understand that it can't be changed.

[Krilly]

I just loooove this pic:

(larger image)

The game certainly has some pretty looks on it. Love the little bucket on the back of the Jagdpanzer

And I just will ignore that other somewhat spoilirish pic, we will see how well those ronsons burn

[JonS]

I feel this picture will be part of the next instalment...

~Viajero wins a virtual cookie

[JonS]

Regarding the placement of the reserve (im sure this is a good idea but in theory) its just i have always found having a reserve to the rear of the front line means when moving a reserve forward it will take all sorts of fire before it gets into position and therefore its weaker and less effective than it would have been if dug in in the first place. I have found im better off having them in a dug in , deployed in position in the first place with good LOS and as many guns on target as possible (aka Napoleon mass your arty) creating one mass brawl at first contact. Moving infantry forward needs plenty of cover behind your defensive position to manoeuvre i guess.

I agree with this, and generally find that setting up reserves is impractical or unnecessary. Sometimes it's that the map lacks depth, so that your entire defensive zone is under observation and fire from the outset. Sometimes it's that the map lacks covered or concealed routes ... which is essentially the same as lacking depth. Sometimes it's that you don't have sufficient forces. Or, sometimes, the objectives all boil down to one location, so you may as well just start there.

When I was building BdB I tried to avoid all or most of that so the defender would be an active participant in the scenario. The forces aren't huge, but if you're prepared to go skimpy on the outpost line you can build up a reasonable reserve. Perhaps more importantly, the woods on the two Hills, the buildings of the Hamlet, and the dead ground to their rear all allow the defender to actually get up and move about without being head stomped. Visibility in the woods, especially, is very restricted, so moving forward or back is do-able, if a bit risky since very short-range ambushes can happen at any time!

[JonS]

Hmm, interesting. How much would it benefit AT guns to be in C2 through their own HQ? Since AT seems mostly there to ambush any armor that appears in LOS...

Yeah, the A-Tk guns are mostly in an ambush role, and I could reasonably have put them all under one platoon - or company - HQ. But I wanted to give the player the flexibility of putting them together or apart anywhere on the map, without C2 penalties. This way they get to share spotting information, and having an HQ about makes their morale a little more robust. All my forces have been headcount reduced leaving the gun crews only three men strong, so they can use the extra stiffening.

[Gryphonne]

JonS, some practical questions if you may answer these.

What does the TO&E look like for individual German squads? How many StGs or G43 do these guys carry around? Is this random?

In an era with mostly semi auto/bolt action rifles and the 1:1 modelling, do you notice a large benefit from having lots of automatic weapons?

Also, since I _guess_ that some squads may either have a mix of Mp40s, Kar98s as well as StGs, how is ammo tracked for all these individual weapons? CMSF for example only has two ammo bars making it impossible to see a third type of ammo in the squad..

Thanks for you time

[JonS]

4: The simple beauty of ... a road

As the CMx2 engine matures, it’s easy to overlook some of the subtler things that are making the lives of scenario designers easier, and providing much prettier maps.

I don’t know exactly when it was added, but a while ago I noticed that roads around the sides of hills were ‘cutting in’ to the hill, leaving the road flat – as it should be – and automatically creating cuttings and in-fills as needed. This means that roads now look much more like they belong in their environment, without the designer having to fiddle about for ages setting elevations tile by tile. Also, since setting the elevation creates a drain on performance, it also means the scenarios play just that little bit faster and smoother. It’s win win all around.

Now, sit back and look at the simple beauty that is a road cutting around the side of a hill. All the cuts and fills you see along the sides of the road here were created automatically when the road was laid down.

(larger image)

Just look at it!

[panzermartin]

Wow is this new?

[Pvt. Ryan]

Another ammo related question:

In CMx1 it only took a few minutes of fighting for an infantry squad to exhaust its ammo supply. In CMSF it seems like a squad can fire for quite a while before running out of ammo, even with automatic weapons (plus they can resupply). Does the ammo supply last longer in CM:BN? I realize it has not been an issue in this battle yet, but what about other scenarios you may have played? And (you may not be able to answer this) is there any resupply in CM:BN?

[Rocky Balboa]

4: The simple beauty of ... a road

As the CMx2 engine matures, it’s easy to overlook some of the subtler things that are making the lives of scenario designers easier, and providing much prettier maps.

I don’t know exactly when it was added, but a while ago I noticed that roads around the sides of hills were ‘cutting in’ to the hill, leaving the road flat – as it should be – and automatically creating cuttings and in-fills as needed. This means that roads now look much more like they belong in their environment, without the designer having to fiddle about for ages setting elevations tile by tile. Also, since setting the elevation creates a drain on performance, it also means the scenarios play just that little bit faster and smoother. It’s win win all around.

Now, sit back and look at the simple beauty that is a road cutting around the side of a hill. All the cuts and fills you see along the sides of the road here were created automatically when the road was laid down.

(larger image)

Just look at it!

The pic is lovely indeed ... I especially like the shadows ... Do units in shadow have a decreased chance of being spotted?

[JonS]

Hi Gryph

What does the TO&E look like for individual German squads? How many StGs or G43 do these guys carry around? Is this random?

I might get round to a detailed look at the sections later, but the short version is: no surprises. If you're familiar with German TOEs, you'll be comfortable with how they appear in the game. Most guys are carrying around standard weapons, but there is a scattering of rarer or unusual models, like the G43.

In an era with mostly semi auto/bolt action rifles and the 1:1 modelling, do you notice a large benefit from having lots of automatic weapons?

Funnily enough ... last night I was testing something for which I needed 3 units from either side, so I grabbed a typical German platoon and stripped off a couple of units, and an a-typical US platoon that only has rifles. I didn't need them to fight - it wasn't part of the testing - but once I'd finished what I was testing I thought "hehe - have at it guys" This was a dead flat map, no cover, nothing. I just pressed go then left them to it. In the first run the two platoons started at about about 20m apart, and the Germans - aided especially by their SMGs - quickly attained firepower ascendancy and then proceeded to wipe out the Americans. In the next test the platoons started about 250m apart, and the reverse happened. The SMGs didn't have the reach and were ineffective, the MGs got knocked out and suppressed, then the mass of Garands tore up the remainder.

It wasn't a realistic test, and there weren't any iterations so no statistical significance, etc, but it did reflect what I expect to happen although I suspect with a slightly different setup, or a little bit of luck, in the second test the two German MGs would have dominated instead of being dominated.

Also, since I _guess_ that some squads may either have a mix of Mp40s, Kar98s as well as StGs, how is ammo tracked for all these individual weapons? CMSF for example only has two ammo bars making it impossible to see a third type of ammo in the squad..

Good question. Ammo is displayed differently in CMBN