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CM:BN Beta AAR/DAR Bois de Baugin US side


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Notes on some technical things...

As Normal Dude pointed out, there is a bug that got in a few builds ago which leads the average American soldier to become a member of an extremist organization. This bug causes them to gather up as many weapons as they possibly can because after the war they know there will be something called the UN and it will eventually try to take away all their liberties. And the best way to defend against this is, of course, to have as many firearms as possible. Fortunately we can at least fix the bug in the game.

The other issue I wanted to mention to you is the earlier question about turning trees off. In the build that Elvis and Jon are playing now, it is either all or nothing. Trees are all on or trees are completely turned off. This is a problem for CMx2 because we do not have dedicated "forest tiles" like CMx1. Which means when you turn off the trees there isn't a great way to tell which parts of the map have trees. Especially because individual trees can be placed anywhere AND they matter tactically (in CMx1 they were just graphical abstractions).

To fix this problem, CM:BN now has the ability to turn off the trees 1/2 way. What happens is a small portion of the trunk is left on the map and the upper part (with the green bits that block view) is removed. You can still remove 100% of the trees if you want, of course. It's just that probably most people in most situations will prefer using the 1/2 way setting when the default view obscures things too much.

Steve

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Krilly...Tube Guy may or may not have made it...

tubeguy.jpg

.

Pff, thank goodness. I hope he is allright, I wouldn't know what to tell tube mom and tube dad otherwise.

As Normal Dude pointed out, there is a bug that got in a few builds ago which leads the average American soldier to become a member of an extremist organization. This bug causes them to gather up as many weapons as they possibly can because after the war they know there will be something called the UN and it will eventually try to take away all their liberties. And the best way to defend against this is, of course, to have as many firearms as possible. Fortunately we can at least fix the bug in the game.

:D Silly guncrazy americans. "From my cold dead hands!"

Though it is very nice to actually be able to eyeball soldiers on the field now and tell what kind of weapons they are holding. And yes, infantry dynamics seem so much more ... natural .. from the screenshots.

Which brings us to the platoon in the center and the Shermans. So far I have lost 3 out of 11. I'm not happy about it but it isn't devastating. The platoon in the center is also not critcal. I feel like I have enough infantry left that once I've created a break in the lines I will be able to exploit it.

Oh, 3 out of 11? Then you got way more armor then I thought and I was not paying good attention. Maybe it's because your shiny pics are from the rough action mostly and thus we primairily see the shermans and platoons which got into trouble. That gives me the impression you are mostly on the recieving end at the moment and I was worrying that casualties are mounting. Not so much so it seems.

You are taking the postions you wanted though, and getting to a point where I imagine you can concentrate firepower more easily.

Let's see how the Germans like that. Give'em hell! :D

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As Normal Dude pointed out, there is a bug that got in a few builds ago which leads the average American soldier to become a member of an extremist organization. This bug causes them to gather up as many weapons as they possibly can because after the war they know there will be something called the UN and it will eventually try to take away all their liberties. And the best way to defend against this is, of course, to have as many firearms as possible.

Not to mention that in a few decades following the end of the war they will be able to make fortunes by selling them to gun collectors, re-enactors, and WW II nuts of the more general sort.

;)

Michael

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To fix this problem, CM:BN now has the ability to turn off the trees 1/2 way. What happens is a small portion of the trunk is left on the map and the upper part (with the green bits that block view) is removed. You can still remove 100% of the trees if you want, of course. It's just that probably most people in most situations will prefer using the 1/2 way setting when the default view obscures things too much.

Steve

Cool, great feature Steve. So will it look like a tree that has been cut down at waist height? So you still have the same graphic for the base, it just suddenly gets cut at a certain height?

If so, will we be able to count the rings in the tree? Will the number of rings be accurate for that area taking into account when that tree would have been planted?

I mean, this game is realistic isnt it?

Chad

;)

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I actually liked CMx1 forest tiles. It shouldnt be a mandatory tree base in CMx2 but rather an extra terrain texture in the editor like "underbrush" put under gathered trees/woods. These would offer:

1. Some extra cover/concealment in heavy woods apart from tree trunks.

2. The ability to switch off trees and still look like you are in wood terrain.

3. A "shadow" subsitute in longer distances. Shadows appear in a small radious close to camera POV. Heavy woods dont cast shadow on ground on 500+ m away, and the terrain below looks unratural bright.

4. All trees drop leaves and foliage under shadow is different compared to terrain exposed to sun/wind etc.

5. When Autumn/Winter arrives we could make terrain like this:

Autumn_trees_7549355.jpg

Beech+tree+winter+leaves.jpg

autumn_tree-10948.jpg

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I actually liked CMx1 forest tiles. It shouldnt be a mandatory tree base in CMx2 but rather an extra terrain texture in the editor like "underbrush" put under gathered trees/woods. These would offer:

I had suggested a leaf litter layer way back when...it would function like brush so that you could put it on top of grass...actually it would be better if you could lay down grass, leaf litter and brush...The screenies look as if the forest has different ground texture than say an area with just a few trees...We may have editor settings where we can choose thick or light tree placement or it could actually go by the button that lets you choose one, two or three trees. This time if you choose the three tree button option it might make that "tile" impassable by vehicles.

All guessing...we shall see

Mord.

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There are different ground effects for trees that make some impassable for vehicles. Here is what the wooded area looks like with and without trees. The area with that has brown stuff in it is impassable for vehicles. The tree covered area that is green is passable.

sideshot.jpg

sideshot2.jpg

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Yeah, the trees look like they were cut down by a really, really bad forester. Always supposed to cut as close to the ground as possible, dontchaknow :D

Having the partial tree trucks gives you a very good idea about how the forest affects tactical decisions yet it doesn't obscure units and/or the ground so you can plot moves. I expect that it will be used very similar to the way it was used in CMx1. People turned trees off, usually, for specific purposes and then turned them back on. Up until now you could do that too, however you lost the tree information which (unlike CMx1) means something from the game's standpoint.

Steve

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Mimicking CMx1's "tree base" tiles isn't possible in CMx2 for two reasons:

1. You can have a SINGLE tree in an 8x8m Action Spot. Plopping down a bit of brush around the base would probably not show up well when the tree is removed. Especially if the base terrain (remember it can be pretty much anything!) interferes with the visuals.

2. Individual tree placements matter, therefore any sort of generalized marking just isn't good enough.

Having the tree trunks there does what needs to be done, therefore nothing else is needed.

Steve

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Elvis (or Steve for that matter)

Does your current build have the ability to show the truncated trees? Personally, I think thats a great inbetween - makes the forest area clear, but allows you to see the action. I always played CMx1 with the trees off so I could clearly see what was going on.

And if your in a picture taking mood Elvis, would love to see some closer shots of Villa Campagne. I think the new building models are just great!

I would ask what your plans are for taking it, but doesnt sound like we are quite to that point yet :D

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Elvis (or Steve for that matter)

Does your current build have the ability to show the truncated trees? Personally, I think thats a great inbetween - makes the forest area clear, but allows you to see the action. I always played CMx1 with the trees off so I could clearly see what was going on.

And if your in a picture taking mood Elvis, would love to see some closer shots of Villa Campagne. I think the new building models are just great!

I would ask what your plans are for taking it, but doesnt sound like we are quite to that point yet :D

There have been a few builds since we started the DAR but to make sure there are no conflicts we need to play it through with the version we started with, which didn't include the half trees.

I took a bunch of screen shots today of the buildings for the DAR. I will make sure to include some shortly. The next post doesn't have any but the one after that will. They are one of the things that I really dig looking at up close. The reflections in the glass and detail in doors especially. Those things have no effect on gameplay but they are so finely detailed that they add a lot immersion when you're viewing the game up close.

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Dan how exactly does that work...will the forest floor completely wipe out any tile beneath it or bleed into it? For instance if I just wanted to place one tree in tall grass could I without losing all the grass? Anyway I like that we have foresty type ground now...this was one of my questions way back.

But still no one has addressed the questions about what kind of destruction the trees will indure...just defoliation or can they snapped and broke by artillery and what not?

Elvis...I can't wait. Bring it on! don't make me wait till Monday to see those buildings!!!

Mord.

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Dan how exactly does that work...will the forest floor completely wipe out any tile beneath it or bleed into it?

To be totally honest I not sure, it was one of the more recent terrain elements added and I havnt had much time to play yet at all. I can say that the tile is placeable independent of trees though, so bottom line is that its up the the scenario designer how it is placed :)

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Thats great. Glad to hear there is effort put in to improve the trees/foliage graphics. Might sound of minor importance to some but while I like the buckets on tanks and different inf pouches, I consider terrain graphics a top priority. Terrain is the big picture, the base of the game visuals and it fills 99% percent our screens. And terrain is what our units fight for :)

No matter how detailed the vehicles are, this is the last thing someone will notice when firing up the game. Surely the game has not been made for the casual gamer and its planned to grow on you as you notice all these little touches here and there which are sure a profuct of love. But I will hate it if someone doesnt go deeper into the game because the zoomed out views are not equally attractive.

Thanks for making this game better and better with each release and each new patch :)

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To be totally honest I not sure, it was one of the more recent terrain elements added and I havnt had much time to play yet at all. I can say that the tile is placeable independent of trees though, so bottom line is that its up the the scenario designer how it is placed :)

Yes! That's what I was hoping for! It's an actual forest floor layer instead of being tied in with tree placement. Excellent. That is like what I had in mind back when I first brought this up a year or so ago. Thanks!

Ok, Elvis, lets see some more.

Mord.

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There have been a few builds since we started the DAR but to make sure there are no conflicts we need to play it through with the version we started with, which didn't include the half trees.

I took a bunch of screen shots today of the buildings for the DAR. I will make sure to include some shortly. The next post doesn't have any but the one after that will. They are one of the things that I really dig looking at up close. The reflections in the glass and detail in doors especially. Those things have no effect on gameplay but they are so finely detailed that they add a lot immersion when you're viewing the game up close.

Cool, sounds good Elvis. If the building were pink with candy canes for door jams and fruit-by-the-foot for shinging, the game would still work from a gameplay point of view. But having a sharp, realistic battlescape adds *immesely* to the play experience and judging by your DAR and all the pics, CM:BN has nailed this aspect too!

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Elvis,

As a life long Packer fan from back in the Lombardi years, I'm sorry you wasted a whole day there instead of preparing our next DAR installment! :P

I think I saw you in the stands. ;)

Go Pack!

I was the one whose tears froze as they dripped down my face (which, thankfully kept them out of my beer).

I should have something up soon.

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The next 3 posts I make with take a slightly different approach to the way I describe the battle. There are 3 separate and distinct things I feel like I want to share.

The one I am about to put up I keep thinking of as a "lite" update. Not "lite" in content but "lite" in that you will not see the battle move forward much. It could almost be seen as a snap shot made up of 7 pictures.

(And sorry Mord, this was put together before your request so I don't have what you are looking for. However, I made of point of your request and you'll be very happy with the next one.)

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