rich12545 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Is there a way to download your AI without having to join the yahoo group? I applied for that but they refused membership. PM me with your email addy and I'll send it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I think you are totally misinterpreting what Brit meant. He NEVER said that the AI had to be changed to make EOS a good game. It's already a great game. He wanted to change because it would a good improvement; it certainly is not a required part of the game. You all have taken this whole all seeing AI thing to an extreme. Brit was good enough to share some of the innerworking of the AI and you all go off the deep end when it is desgined like MANY game AIs. The only difference is that you just don't about some of those. My suggestion is don't ask or give computer gaming because if you knew all the dirty little secrets you would always be angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich12545 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 All this ranting about the AI is pretty amusing. Brit has given far more than the original content and still people say the game is not "finished". That's just crazy talk. How many free patches and added content/functionality did you all get with Oblivion? Civ? I can guarantee you 99% of all games have some cheats for the computer. Programming a true AI is an immense task. Two of us spent one year working about 10 hours a week doing an AI for a game that was far less complex than EOS. We had no terrain to worry and only two simple objectives, destroy all enemies encountered at a certain point in space or avoid destruction. The basic fire control system for direct fire weapons design for AI (no code just calculations and diagrams) alone was someones entire term project in college. We had improve upon that later then add navigation AI, objective AI and a module to decide when and how to employ unguided bombs. Since it was a tactical game we didn't have to worry about building units or supplies. We're not even talking all the other programming GUI, game design, etc... the two guys I worked with on the project were both physics majors and we all had at least 10 years of programming experience. If you want see how good other games AIs are look at the credits for any major game you're going to see very few programmers and tons of artists ... that should give an idea of how the major producers think about good AI. It's easy and quick to write a semi-competent AI if you allow massive cheating so that's what they do. All really care about is flashy graphics and sound. This is total BS. If you would bother reading previous posts you would know that. I've stated several times that the dev at Killer Bee Software did develop a very good AI for Empire Enhanced and t doesn't cheat at all. What part of this don't you understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich12545 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I think you are totally misinterpreting what Brit meant. He NEVER said that the AI had to be changed to make EOS a good game. It's already a great game. He wanted to change because it would a good improvement; it certainly is not a required part of the game. You all have taken this whole all seeing AI thing to an extreme. Brit was good enough to share some of the innerworking of the AI and you all go off the deep end when it is desgined like MANY game AIs. The only difference is that you just don't about some of those. My suggestion is don't ask or give computer gaming because if you knew all the dirty little secrets you would always be angry. Many game AIs? Name 10 that you know for sure. Otherwise issue an apology for misrepresenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_WAR Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 No, you mean you dont agree with some peoples opinion and dont want them to be able to state their opinion. You are calling people idiots because they want Brit to live up to his promise of completing the game before walking away,.... No, this thread would not be locked in any form that I frequent,....because the forums I frequent dont lock and delete threads just because a fanboy or two dont agree with what people are posting,....especially when what they are posting is 100% true. I have saw forums that do that,...... mostly forums for games that usually deserve the negative comments they get, but the mods cant let anything negative be posted,....and the game never improves becasue any time someone tries to point a problem with the game their post gets deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Balaban Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 PM me with your email addy and I'll send it to you. Can I too get your EDEE AI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_WAR Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I think you are totally misinterpreting what Brit meant. He NEVER said that the AI had to be changed to make EOS a good game. It's already a great game. He wanted to change because it would a good improvement; it certainly is not a required part of the game. You all have taken this whole all seeing AI thing to an extreme. Brit was good enough to share some of the innerworking of the AI and you all go off the deep end when it is desgined like MANY game AIs. The only difference is that you just don't about some of those. My suggestion is don't ask or give computer gaming because if you knew all the dirty little secrets you would always be angry. Wow,....you sure changed your tune from when you made this post..... However, the fact that subs are hunted down like dogs by the AI because it knows where they are at all times galls me to no end. Subs have always been hit and run weapons and that just doesn't work right now nor do my SF units that are always seen by the AI and blown up by artillery when they are hiding the middle of a mountain range with no other enemies around. Even you know that the AI doing what is currently doing is wrong. In NO other industry can you accept full payment for something and not deliver it withot getting sued, fired and eventually blackballed in that industry. Yet for some reason a few peope here,...the developer included thinks there is nothing wrong with it. Well guys,...next time you pay someone to fix your car and you find out the next day they only did 80% of what they charged you for I want you to repeaet the same excuses you have made here............... and not go back to that mechanic and complain........... When you call roto rooter to unclog a drain,... and they tell you they could only get it draining at about 80% of what it should,...but hey thats good enough, now pay full price,.....smile and say its good enough.................. When you go to the grocry store and your groceries are totaled up and you realize you are being charged for a few items you dont have,.....dont ask for your money back or for those items,.....the owners of that store need to make a living too........... When you pay a guy to paint your house, and find out that he has taken your money but only painted the front and sides of your house,....not the back,........make sure you defend him and call anyone that says he should finsh the job an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich12545 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Can I too get your EDEE AI Sure, same thing, pm me with your email addy and I'll send it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I was complaining about two small problems that I suggested a very limited fix for. Not an entire revision of the AI to include complete FOW. Nor did I say the game was unplayable or that I was unhappy with my purchase. The sub and artillery thing does bother me, but its not a show stopper. I have no problem with the AI knowing where my other units are really. It's nearly impossible to hide a large military unit completely. Besides games are sold As-Is if you didn't like the AI when you demoed it you shouldn't have bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 This is total BS. If you would bother reading previous posts you would know that. I've stated several times that the dev at Killer Bee Software did develop a very good AI for Empire Enhanced and t doesn't cheat at all. What part of this don't you understand? Didn't you say in an earlier post that it took you FIVE YEARS of script work to get the AI to play really well? Obviously the non-cheating AI was lousy. No developer has five years to get a game out unless it's hobby and not a business. One thing i sort of agree wirh you on, I wish EOS had some type of API then we could continue the AI work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich12545 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Didn't you say in an earlier post that it took you FIVE YEARS of script work to get the AI to play really well? Obviously the non-cheating AI was lousy. Your problem is that you don't bother reading posts before replying. I said there are two levels. The basic one is the AI.dll which is very good and doesn't cheat. The script has details and roe plus a few other things. This was so bad that the game functioned dumb as a rock. If I had even a small amount of programming experience I could have fixed the whole thing in a couple of days. As it was I knew less than nothing. Really it took me five years not so much to fix the script but to understand it. Maybe you could have done it right away but the whole thing was Greek to me. I think you and others way overestimate what Brit needs to do to fix the AI and how long it would take. What he needs to do is program units to search, like send out aircraft and destroyers, and then take off the all-seeing AI. That's it. I'll bet the whole thing would take maybe 10-20 hours max. In his spare time. He owes it to his customers. Anything less shows a complete lack of integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich12545 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Besides games are sold As-Is if you didn't like the AI when you demoed it you shouldn't have bought it. Sorry but this is a dumb thing to say. Demos don't show the whole game. It's difficult to tell that the AI doesn't need to search. It's difficult to know that the AI's sub went after my battleship because it knew where it was and hadn't searched and found it. Etc Etc. Now you're really stretching. What Brit should have done from the beginning was be honest and let potential customers know about the all-seeing AI. This is such a big thing that not letting us know borders on fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich12545 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 And, StellarRat, you're flaking out. You have not posted a single other game that you know uses an all-seeing AI after posting that many of them do. So it looks like your posts are less than honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 in any other forum would have been locked long ago Shauny1987, Moon knows. The clock is ticking. It's not worth trying to discuss anything further on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich12545 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Shauny1987, Moon knows. The clock is ticking. It's not worth trying to discuss anything further on this thread. Nobody forces you or shauney or stellarrat to post anything. You don't even have to read this thread. I'll bet that if Brit had let people know about the all-seeing AI from the beginning he would have gotten very few sales. That is such a game killer for most warganers hardly anybody would have bought the game. I challenge Moon to post in the CMSF forum that the AI does not use FOW and see the response. There would be a virtual riot. No AI FOW is such a game killer that I have NEVER in 30 years seen it in any other wargame. Maybe it's in a few that I missed but not many. It is a total game killer for a huge majority of wargamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_WAR Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Shauny1987, Moon knows. The clock is ticking. It's not worth trying to discuss anything further on this thread. Really,....you are the one that has actually broken the forums rules. for some piss-ant whining about "moral obligation" to provide some marginally better AI, you must be high on drugs. Rich, I was your age for a whole year once. Maybe someday you'll grow up Anything else, kid Seems you like to throw around insults, but want to run to the mods when they are thrown back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosseau Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 All-seeing AI or not, I am curious: How does the AI perform in this game. Is it fun? Is it a challenge? Do you get the feeling that the AI is pretty good (a la WitE)? I tend to give a blind eye to AI "advantages" because I just want to feel like I'm being challenged. So how does this game rate in that dept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_WAR Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The AI is actually good except that you might as well not buy certain units as they are worthless as long as the AI knows where they are at al times. Of course it could be said the AI is only good because it cheats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich12545 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The AI is actually good except that you might as well not buy certain units as they are worthless as long as the AI knows where they are at al times. Of course it could be said the AI is only good because it cheats. Correct. The AI knows where all the cities are. It knows where all the best cities are. The AI knows where all the player's cities are. It knows where all the player's units are. It knows where his battleships are so it can his subs. It knows where all his subs are so it can send its destroyers. And on and on. Do you get the picture yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosseau Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I guess that kind of ruins the suspension of disbelief that the AI is good. To go off-topic for just a second: Scott, do you think the AI in World Supremacy cheats, now that it actually has an AI? thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_WAR Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I guess that kind of ruins the suspension of disbelief that the AI is good. To go off-topic for just a second: Scott, do you think the AI in World Supremacy cheats, now that it actually has an AI? thanks guys World Supremacy............thats a game that has all the potential in the world but is pretty 'rough' right now,...... to put it nicely. I cant honestly answer your question becasue the AI still isnt right in that game. I dont think it does,...but mainly thats me hoping, becasue if the AI in that game sees through fog of war,....then its really bad. It still doesnt react well enough to what it can definately see,.....much less what it shouldnt see. Dont get me wrong though,...its a huge improvement in the latest patch,..and he is still working on it. We shall have to wait and see (it seems like I am waiting on more and more games to get finished to really start playing) but I think that game has some real potential. On the bright side the developer of that game has a very solid reputation for continuing to work on his games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 If I had even a small amount of programming experience... I think you and others way overestimate what Brit needs to do to fix the AI and how long it would take. What he needs to do is... ROTFLMAO. Someboby with zero computer programming experience dishing out advice (directives?), and refusing to listen to anything to the contrary. Too funny. This provides some comic relief to an otherwise obnoxious "discussion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich12545 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The only person who's obnoxious is you. You consistently come up with meaningless posts that are nothing more than personal attacks. No content. Just enough to show what kind of person you are. Kind of shallow and bitter. Nobody forces you to read this thread. If you don't like it, if it's so obnoxious to you, feel free to stay away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich12545 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The real problem with this thread is Brit is AWOL. Why should he post when he has his groupie fanboys to do it for him? WHERE'S BRIT????? He should be here explaining, honestly, how many hours it would take to fix the AI and why he is refusing to do it in his spare time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly's Heros Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The real problem with this thread is Brit is AWOL. Why should he post when he has his groupie fanboys to do it for him? WHERE'S BRIT????? He should be here explaining, honestly, how many hours it would take to fix the AI and why he is refusing to do it in his spare time. Rich, You need to let this go. Brit has supported EOS way longer than he should have given the amount of money he has been making. He has a new job and probably a new life away from EOS now. Sorry that you aren't happy with the game, but get over it. The AI is as good as it is going to be. If you don't like the game, quit playing it. Brit may continue to support the game, but not like he has been in the past. Find another place to complain. We're all tired of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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