I wonder

[Wodin]

as CM A has winter terrian I wonder if NATO will ship with it and maybe Euro terrian so the modders can get to work on the game for the foreseeable future...it is the last in the CMSF family.......

[MeatEtr]

On that note, is there a water tile in CMA? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Syria has rivers and lakes so why not in CMSF.

[Ryujin]

On a related note... why can't my BMPs/BTRs float in said water tiles?

[born2lose]

as CM A has winter terrian I wonder if NATO will ship with it and maybe Euro terrian so the modders can get to work on the game for the foreseeable future...it is the last in the CMSF family.......

No as Nato is still based in Syria and Steve has said frequently that that euro and winter terrain is for when they re visit Modern war in a future version, unless you want to count the euro and winter terrain in forthcomming CM:N.

BF have always said each version of CM2 and its modules will stick to its theatre and respective terrains.

[sawomi]

... to count the euro and winter terrain in forthcomming CM:N. ...

CM:B ... -> (Bulge).

[Wodin]

The next modern war game will be the next version of CM wont it...with loads of new features etc etc....so why not give the modders tools to expand CMSF...it wouldn't hit on future sales of the next modern game...if I'm right in persuming that will be CMx3

[vincere]

The next modern war game will be the next version of CM wont it...with loads of new features etc etc....so why not give the modders tools to expand CMSF...it wouldn't hit on future sales of the next modern game...if I'm right in persuming that will be CMx3

No. It would be the third or fourth base game (adaptable engine) of CMx2.

I can't remember but I am under the impression that Steve did not say for sure whether it would be Shock Force 2 Euro theatre or East Front WW2 after Normandy.

[Alan8325]

It's not even known yet whether Shock Force 2 will be in Europe, only that it will be in a temperate area with more evenly matched RED forces. Europe is one possibility, as is China.

I believe East Front WWII will arrive before SF2. CMx2 might as well be CMx3, CMx4 and everything beyond because there's been official word that a new engine will not be started from scratch again. New capabilities will be added to CMx2 constantly.

[vincere]

It's not even known yet whether Shock Force 2 will be in Europe, only that it will be in a temperate area with more evenly matched RED forces. Europe is one possibility, as is China.

I believe East Front WWII will arrive before SF2. CMx2 might as well be CMx3, CMx4 and everything beyond because there's been official word that a new engine will not be started from scratch again. New capabilities will be added to CMx2 constantly.

Interesting way of looking at it. Do you think that will stand in another 6 years time? Or more for that matter. They may retire but, keep the buiness going.

True,no announcement; I was betraying an assumption that I made. That it that it makes sense to have it in Europe or Russia because I guess a significant amount of the work for one can be used for the other. But who knows; hmm I wonder if they have made a decision yet.

[purpheart23]

Co-play please.

[Alan8325]

Yeah that's true that a lot of Russian stuff is already done and can save some time. Also, the European climate and terrain is done as of CM:N, also saving time. For the purpose of creating an even RED side however, China seems suitable at the moment because of the political climate and rates of economic and military advancement, but we'll see.

I'm not sure what will happen with CMx2 years down the road, but from my understanding almost all of it is upgradeable and different parts are easier to upgrade than others. Things that are easy to change but create big improvements in the game are the things that change first, obviously. Really big changes would almost be akin to starting from scratch but even if done, the engine would still be called CMx2, IIRC.

[vincere]

Yeah that's true that a lot of Russian stuff is already done and can save some time. Also, the European climate and terrain is done as of CM:N, also saving time. For the purpose of creating an even RED side however, China seems suitable at the moment because of the political climate and rates of economic and military advancement, but we'll see.

I'm not up to date on it enough to pass serious comment, however:

Chinese combat effectiveness is overestimated. Russian = underestimated especially if fighting on home soil imo.

I'm not sure what will happen with CMx2 years down the road, but from my understanding almost all of it is upgradeable and different parts are easier to upgrade than others. Things that are easy to change but create big improvements in the game are the things that change first, obviously. Really big changes would almost be akin to starting from scratch but even if done, the engine would still be called CMx2, IIRC.

He he, we could get into philosophical realms here. When constituent parts are changed over time at what point is it something else....

[Battlefront.com]

It's not even known yet whether Shock Force 2 will be in Europe, only that it will be in a temperate area with more evenly matched RED forces. Europe is one possibility, as is China.

Yup, temperate for sure. Red will be current non-NATO technology. Whether this is literally Russia and/or China is still something we're discussing.

I believe East Front WWII will arrive before SF2. CMx2 might as well be CMx3, CMx4 and everything beyond because there's been official word that a new engine will not be started from scratch again. New capabilities will be added to CMx2 constantly.

We have no specific threshold that will determine when we index the CM number from CMx2 to CMx3. But for sure at some point we'll do something really large, like redo the entire graphics core, that will warrant a new engine number. But the evolutionary approach we have means that we won't often gut something or indeed add something massive.

Steve

[Alan8325]

Yup, temperate for sure. Red will be current non-NATO technology. Whether this is literally Russia and/or China is still something we're discussing.

Both sounds good.

[Sequoia]

Yup, temperate for sure. Red will be current non-NATO technology. Whether this is literally Russia and/or China is still something we're discussing.

Steve

Well I'd bet good money on Russia since you already have a (apparently) good relationship with Snowball and I'd bet they'd be just as interested as the people on this board.

Alternatively you could make Belorussia the bad guys and have the Russians join in on a gang tackle as you did with everybody against Syria.

[Battlefront.com]

Well, according to some the US is about to become a Communist state (some say it already is). As with all good Communist states, this means the US armed forces will discard their bourgeois tanks and go with a Chinese knockoffs. Probably purchased through the nationalized Walmart (renamed Proletariatmart).

And while this is going on, Canada, which some say is a right wing junta waiting to happen, will of course cut social services and take the savings to buy expensive military hardware. Then, without a second thought, will do a sneak attack on the United Soviet States (the renamed US) at the "Niagara Gap", as many have predicted.

So you see, lots of possibilities!

Steve

[Alan8325]

We don't have to wait for SF2 for that. The U.S. - Canada war can be simulated with the NATO module. It will just take some imagination to see the Syrian terrain as part of U.S. soil.

[Dietrich]

...So you see, lots of possibilities!

[Russian super-villain accent] "In United Soviet States, possibilities see you!" [/Russian super-villain accent]

The U.S. - Canada war can be simulated with the NATO module. It will just take some imagination to see the Syrian terrain as part of U.S. soil.

Another good use for the "Syrope" mod, I reckon.

[vincere]

Yup, temperate for sure. Red will be current non-NATO technology. Whether this is literally Russia and/or China is still something we're discussing.

Steve

Nato + Russia v China would be handsome, and a different take on how China's claim to supremacy by arms could pan out.

[LongLeftFlank]

Nah, US-Canada joint intervention in post-secession Quebec 2020 to put a stop to "ethnic cleansing" in Montreal and Hull by a chauvinist French-only regime, as well as a brutal civil war with the Cree Nation aided by Newfoundland. Swap the Uncon headscarves for Habs tucs and you're pretty much there. It's a fairly open secret that 82nd AB and 10 Mountain Division in Fort Drum have kept invasion plans up to date ever since the 1960s.

[AslakH]

The next modern war game will be the next version of CM wont it...with loads of new features etc etc....so why not give the modders tools to expand CMSF...it wouldn't hit on future sales of the next modern game...if I'm right in persuming that will be CMx3

because Battlefront would run out of buisness if modders could add new content.

Let's face it.. the "modules" could've been made by a modder at home.

Let's say CM:N came out in December(aha-haha), maybe by February we'd have twenty mods. Some with SS and FJ! There would be no need for modules to be churned out every 4-5 months. Like with the Windows Vista/Win7 patches for CMBB, CMAK... I have to PAY for them?? Hello, the pirate bay! They should be free!

Battlefront will not go under as a result of "too few people playing our games", they will go under because they have pricey games that don't deliver.

Textures do not count as mods. Saying they are is nothing short of a kick in the balls.

[AslakH]

That might've pissed someone off. Well, well.

[Tactical Wargamer]

Co-play please.

<Sigh> I too would love this feature. It has been on their lists I believe for some time. Unfortunately MP lists usually are secondary to SP lists.......

It is a blast in another excellent tactical wargame. Gettysburg has it. It is amazing to maneuver with live elements in the field that respond to your requests....or not!! Trying to maneuver 3 divisions together in an coherent combat formation can be challenging but what a pure enjoyment.

[Battlefront.com]

I've discussed the reasons why we don't open the game engine to Modders probably 1000 times over the last 11 years. The reasons never change because the likely result will never change... our customer base fracture (definitely) and Battlefront financially harmed (likely). All arguments to the contrary have always been successfully countered by me because successful modding examples used are never comparable to a niche game by a niche company.

CoPlay is a HUGE investment of time on our part. We're not sure it's worth it. If lighting ever strikes, and we get a military contract, CoPlay would be assured. But since we refuse to play the DoD's game of "build it first and maybe we'll buy it" we're in a Catch-22. To get a military contract we probably have to make CoPlay first, but to make CoPlay we probably need to have a military contract first.

Steve

[Mord]

There's about 100 things I'd like to see included in CMX2 before Co-play. Doesn't interest me in the least...

Mord.