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DreDay

Dissapointed with the research that went into this

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I was curious about the 5.54 vs the 7.62 ammo of the 74's and 47's and what that meant for the logistics for the squads. The magazines were so similar between the weapons I believe they had to add ribs to the front of the 74's mag's to keep soldiers from trying to insert them into 47's.

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I greatly appreciate your response and the attention given to the issues that I have raised. Here are my humble comments...

My understanding is that, in fact, the weapons were mixed to some extent for the reasons Amedeo mentioned. Having said that, there were some limitations within the game system itself. It was fairly easy for us to set up the TO&E to be one way all the time, every time. It was a little trickier, but not that difficult, to have some variations within a single unit. But with the underlying game system that CM:A uses it's very difficult for us to have small arms variations be more widespread and yet follow some sort of directed logic (i.e. not random). The new TO&E system in Normandy and beyond has largely addressed this problem.

Mixing of the different weapon types at squad/platoon level was rare with the units of the 40th Army. GRU Spetsnaz and other reconnaissance units would generally have one or two AKMs/AKMSs per group/platoon. This was due to the fact that it could be fitted with the suppressor and use subsonic ammo, while the AK-74 had no such option. That's about it... It is true that some of the more experienced soldiers would occasionally prefer to use AKMs instead of AK-74s; but this was a fairly rare occurrence. For that matter, some of them had preferred to use the captured M-16s; but I don't think that the game benefits from trying to simulate that. Generally speaking, Soviet infantry units were equipped with either AK-74s or AKMs; but almost never both. Yet, they always seem to have both in the game. Perhaps there is a way to use the "mixed weapons" feature for the Mujaheddin, but not the Soviets?

As for them swapping out the BMDs for BTR/BMPs, this isn't surprising to me but I don't think Snowball wanted to take away from the uniqueness of the VDV forces by giving them the same vehicles as the others. At least not by default. I can probably address this in a patch. I'll have to look into the TO&E to see how I structured it. The TO&E was frozen in late 2009, so it's been a while since I've looked at it.

Your research into this would be greatly appreciated. As you probably know, Soviet airborne and air assault forces had borne the brunt of the fighting throughout the whole conflict. Unfortunately there is no way to create realistic scenarios reflecting their actions while they only have BMD-2s available to them. I don't mind BMD-2s being present in the game and I enjoy an occasional "what-if" scenario as much as anyone else; however I don't believe in doing this at the expense of the equipment that was actually used in reality.

The rest of your comments make perfect sense and I have absolutely no objections to them. Again, thank you for taking the time to hear out and to address my concerns.

Peace,

DreDay

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I believe they had to add ribs to the front of the 74's mag's to keep soldiers from trying to insert them into 47's.

Monkie, the AK-74 magazines are made out of plastic while the ones for AK/AKM are metallic. They have different weight, curvature, and size... Moreover, the late model AKMs had plastic magazines that were very similar to those of the AK-74.

Peace,

DreDay

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Nice to see, on this forum people who know history of Soviet-Afghanistan war. So if we toking about details may be should look not on mixed AKs, but on some more seriously, for example soviet soldiers don't have bodyarmor ;)

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Nice to see, on this forum people who know history of Soviet-Afghanistan war. So if we toking about details may be should look not on mixed AKs, but on some more seriously, for example soviet soldiers don't have bodyarmor ;)

Yeah and a vid link in the thread a few down reminded me of how often I saw riders on vehicles in news clips. Shame they didn't get that in.

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Nice to see, on this forum people who know history of Soviet-Afghanistan war. So if we toking about details may be should look not on mixed AKs, but on some more seriously, for example soviet soldiers don't have bodyarmor ;)

Well maybe it's simulated, in the same way the crews carry AKM's when they should be pistols, you don't see it, or it's modeled incorrectly but the game engine takes it into account.

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Yeah and a vid link in the thread a few down reminded me of how often I saw riders on vehicles in news clips. Shame they didn't get that in.

They would rather risk a bullet or shrapnel vs being trapped in a furnace on wheels/tracks.

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They would rather risk a bullet or shrapnel vs being trapped in a furnace on wheels/tracks.

Anybody seen riders in Chechen clips? I seem to recall some troops made the same decision there.

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Quick comment:

I don't mind BMD-2s being present in the game and I enjoy an occasional "what-if" scenario as much as anyone else; however I don't believe in doing this at the expense of the equipment that was actually used in reality.

The BMD-1 is in the game already. I just checked the TO&E code and it's there. Just change the Equipment Quality to a lower setting (especially dead last) and you'll see them.

Looking at the code now I think I can slip in BMP-2 into the mix without too much difficulty. But the old way of handling vehicle choices starts to break down when I add more than two unique types of vehicles. So I think perhaps the best I can do is have a choice between two types of BMDs and two types of BMPs.

Steve

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Quick comment:

The BMD-1 is in the game already. I just checked the TO&E code and it's there. Just change the Equipment Quality to a lower setting (especially dead last) and you'll see them.

Looking at the code now I think I can slip in BMP-2 into the mix without too much difficulty. But the old way of handling vehicle choices starts to break down when I add more than two unique types of vehicles. So I think perhaps the best I can do is have a choice between two types of BMDs and two types of BMPs.

Steve

Thank you. Looking forward to the squad size change as well.

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The over-reliance on RPGs in Soviet squads. It is true that regular Soviet infantry squads had and RPG gunner and assistant per squad... However, most of the time there were not enough targets for the RPGs in Afganistan and RPGs were left at the base or in the IFV/APC, while their gunners carried regular assault rifles.

DreDay,

Just wondering where you have this information from? From countless russian sources I have information that reliance on RPG was high due to their great firepower. So much that towards the end of the war they tried to give every solder the "Mukha" (RPG-18). So RPG's were very popular among russian troops too.

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Dima,

There is plenty of evidence from the memoirs, AARs, ptographs, and video footage to indicte that the RPG-7s/RPG-16s were not normally used at the squad level. At best, Soviet soldiers would carry one per platoon. I would be very curisous to see what evidence you have found to the contrary.

RPG-18/22s are a whole different story, 40th Army command had recommended that they would be issued at a rate of 1 per every 2 soldiers (if operating on foot) towards the end of the confilict... BTW, has anyone seen those in the game?

On a whole different note, I have gone back to some of my sources and it appears the Soviets did infact institute the 4 man dismounted squads in the mid 80s. The mechanised (either BTR or BMP) squad of the 40th Army would have 6 soldiers in it, 4 dismounts + 1 driver + vehicle gunner. The driver and the gunner would normally operate on foot along with the rest of the squad if the vehicles were left at the base...

Peace,

DreDay

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I also don't hear about lowering numbers of RPG in soviet platoons, but of course was a problem with RPG effectives against enemy infantry (but don't remember that HEAT works good against fortress positions) without HE grenades (by the way mujaheddins had HE grenades for RPG-7 - chines or Iranian). But I want to say, that soviets forces used in Afghanistan very powerful rocket-propelled flame-thrower RPO "Shmel"/"Rias" - unfortunately we don't have it in game.

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Nooo..... you just reminded me of thermobaric weapons!

Give us RPO and artillery support with TOS-1! :D

(I would also like to have flamethrowers and laser guided 240mm mortar rounds but I am aware that the current incarnation of the CMx2 game engine is not able to handle these)

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I noticed that certain command units have a rifle and 2 pistols. In CMSF the pistol representation didn't much bother me, but in CMA it becomes a bit more irksome to see a pistol armed company command represented with AKs. Is this ever going to be changed? Or is modelling a pistol just too difficult in this game where it seemed easy in cm1 games?

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I think that a more poignant question is - why are they armed with pistols in the firtst place? No one, from soldiers to generals, would have taken a pistol as their primary weapon in Afghanistan. Even the fighter pilots had found ways to cary AKSs/AKSUs in their tiny cockpits...

Peace,

DreDay

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I think that a more poignant question is - why are they armed with pistols in the firtst place? No one, from soldiers to generals, would have taken a pistol as their primary weapon in Afghanistan. Even the fighter pilots had found ways to cary AKSs/AKSUs in their tiny cockpits...

Peace,

DreDay

I agree. I always thought there was at least one AKS/AKSU in a tank.

At least give us some pistol models!

Oh, anyone noticed the Soviet DShK firing animation? It's just the HMG with a kneeling rifleman behind it, firing his imaginary AK.

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Animations seem to be one of the biggest drawbacks, or pluses depending on what side of the abstraction perspective you come from.

If you choose to go 1-1 or represention, then you should try and get those animations right.

Definitely, if you decide a Company HQ has 2 pistols, then you should represent it. No reason not to really.

As an aside, there are plenty times when I have been issued a side arm where I though a proper rifle would be better, Kosova for one.... But the powers that be decided I didnt need it... So, if we folow TOE for Soviets, then its side arms for Coy HQ, never mind what anyone else says...

Cheers

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Yeah, but then we'll need an animation for U.S. Airborne troops scavenging Lugers off dead German Officers, in the middle of battle no less. :)

Don't forget later accidentally shooting themselves in the foot :)

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Don't forget the "Raiding the cellar of Calvados" animation, along with the "Stop to paint a Kilroy on a farmhouse wall" animation.....

Although to be honest, I will happily forgo any and all pistol firing animations for a "Close Combat" animation and mechanic.

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