Technology in WW2

[JonS]

Look in the original book you cited, check the footnote or bibliography for the reference relating to the issue and give me the reference cited in the book.

John. Step away from tNA website, open your book, and copy out what is written there.

How hard is that?

Not very, for normal people. The problem is that Kettloon knows, either consiouslly or subconsciously, that if he actually provided the references (assuming they even exist) his carelessly built house of cards will come tumbling down. Therefore his best course of action is to simply ignore the request and go rambling off down irrelevant cul de sacs.

[JonS]

as far as I know there is nothing that I have posted saying what I believe of JK's.

Probably not, but you certainly egg him on. Just like the rest of us. You also post enough of your own loony links to make categorising you as Kettloon-lite reasonable.

[John Kettler]

Today's WW II technological surprise is courtesy of Spurr, who wrote A GLORIOUS WAY TO DIE, the tragic story of the Yamato's kamikaze sortie, as seen from both sides. In it, he mentioned the shocking fact that the Japanese had VT fuzed antiaircraft shells. Guess what? I just found found confirmation, in the wonderful Case Study--Innovation in World War II: The Proximity Fuze, by Lynch (Fair use) from here http://www.enginesofinnovation.com/html/proximity_fuse_case_study.HTM

"The Japanese were also introducing their own proximity fuzes in bombs and rockets (a more stable platform than cannons). In June, 1944, the Japanese bombed an airbase on recently captured Saipan, with a single1700 pound proximity bomb, which exploded 35 feet above the airfield, destroying or damaging scores of parked B-29s, (the most advanced bomber of the time), which were to be used to begin bombing raids on Japan. Proximity fuzes were scheduled to be used by Japan in a fleet of kamikaze bombers to be launched from submarines at US cities on the west coast and the Panama Canal just a month after the atom bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. As the Pacific war ended, Japan had perfected and produced over 12,000 proximity fuzes for use in AA artillery. Fortunately there was not an opportunity to use them."

Here's a great study on the Allied VT fuze, one company's role in it and even has effectiveness data.

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-075.htm

Regards,

John Kettler

[Pak_43]

Here is a citation similar to the one I gave

You haven't given me a single citation from the source book yet John, so it can't be similar to anything...

but it may not be the exact one I intended. It does show, though, that such reports were done and still do exist.

Luftfahrtforschungsanstalt Herman Goering, Volkenrode: aerodynamics of rockets and ramjets research and development work

No kidding sherlock, UK reports still exist from WWII on German WWII research into rockets and ramjets? Wow, fecking hell, I'd never have guessed, what with all those books with proper references and bibliographies on the subject of German rocket and ramjet research....

Stop shotgun searching my countries National Archives and give me the source book reference please, so I can spend (a probably not inconsiderable) sum of money looking at the source material you say exists. I'm certainly not spending around £0.40 a sheet on a reference which probably isn't the correct one...

Of course a real "researcher" might have spent the time and money themselves at the National Archives website to get to the documents and look up the reference thus validating it for themselves and then be able to provide me with the document reference and handy page numbers, politely cutting down my costs to validate it....

[Stalins Organ]

You know I have no great difficulty believing the Japanese could have developed a proximity fuse....none at all. Despite the lack of references on teh web apart from that 1 site you quote which doesn't give any.....

1/ that they put it in bombs and rockets is reasonable - those do not require miniaturised shock proof compnents as shells do

2/ they did have radar

3/ they were not idiots...well mostly not......

So although I do not consider it proved by any means, it is definitely a possiblity IMO.

Edit - remove request for info on a page discussing German prox fuses - appears to be a copy of uit (or the original?) here, and it appears they had several types for use in their anti-aircraft missiles - radio, accoustic and infrared are all mentioned here (PDF summary of German anti-aircraft missiles, not large). A description of the manner the accoustic fuse worked is on the wiki page of the X-4 anti-aircraft missile

[JonS]

Stalin:

The German proximity fuse.

The development of the US proximity fuse by the US in WW Two is

regarded as a unique allied triumph.

Little known however is that the Germans independently developed and

successfully test fired almost 1000 rounds of a similar proximity fuse

near the wars end that if introduced into service would have had a

dramatic effect. The allies estimated that the availability of the

proximity fuse would force them to abandon use of the B-24 Liberator

due to its lower flying altitude compared to the B-17.

The Allied Proximity fuse was used on both Anti-Aircraft Artillery and

anti-personnel howitzers where they were set to explode approximately

50 feet above the ground. At that height they would produce a lethal

zone over a terrifyingly wide area. When used against aircraft it

seemed to increase effectiveness of a round by 3-7 or more.

The proximity fuse was fielded as an AA weapon from ships in the

Pacific from June 1943 where it was reasoned that secrecy could not be

compromised as dud rounds would fall into the sea. (I have no

knowledge of its use against the Japanese Troops on islands). It on

one occasion apparently helped shoot down 90 of 120 attacking Japanese

planes.

It was first supplied to Britain to help overcome the V1 cruise missile

fired at London where it in combination with radar and computer

directed guns reduced the mean number of rounds expended to destroy a

V1 from 4000 to 180.

Finally there are records of it used against German troops during the

Ardennes Offensive (Battle of Bulge). It was reasoned that the

Germans would not be able to reconstruct the fuses in time to make use

of them. In fact the 'folklore' on the Internet is that they

captured some 20,000 but did not recognize them and also that they

recovered duds and reasoned that they were triggered by the Earth's

magnetic Field. (Note the magnet field theory probably came from the

troops themselves before being analysed by more technical branches of

the German forces)

The allied fuse workings.

Technically the Allied fuse was not radar: it did not send out a pulse

and listen for an echo. It had 4 tubes. One tube was part of the

oscillator. When a 'target' that was about a ½ wavelength in size

came within a few wavelengths it would load the amplifier and the anode

current would increase. Two additional amplifiers would detect this

change and then triggered the 4th valve (a gas filled thyraton) to set

of the detonator. Contrary to other reports it apparently did not

trigger on Doppler shift either or on frequency change. There were

many shock hardening techniques including planar electrodes and packing

the components in wax and oil to equalize the stresses.

The German fuse workings.

The fuse was based on electrostatic principles.

The circuitry of the German fuse is not precisely known to me as I do

not have the schematics however the details are in allied files refred

to I do not have a circuit layout drawing. It is known that the nose

of the shell was electrically insulated and isolated from the rest of

the shell. It was built by the company Rheinmetall. The program was

halted in 1940 then restarted in early 1944 and then terminated again

due to being over run by the allies at the point that it was ready for

production.

Initial fuse testing demonstrated a sensitivity of 1-2 meters and a

reliability of 80% when fired against a metal cable target. A circuit

adjustment yielded an increase to 3-4 meters and a reliability of close

to 95%.

Further work showed a 10-15 meter sensitivity. This was with 88mm

canon shells. The shell to all intents and purposes ready for

production.

References are "Truth About the Wunderwaffen" by Igor Witowski who

cites "Proximity Fuse Development - Rheinmettal Borsig A.G.

Mullhausen. CIOS report ITEM nos 3 file nos XXVI -1 (1945)

Capacitance based fuses became highly developed after the second world

war due to their high resistance against jamming techniques.

It is unlikely that the shell could have been easily degraded by

jamming or chaff. (unlike the Allied shell).

I can speculate as to several ways that this might work. It is

referred to as a "influenz zunder" based in electrostatic

principles.

Method 1: Bridge Cicuit. The shells external capacitance is made

part of a bridge circuite with an internal reference capacitor in the

other arm. Any disturbance caused by an large object such as an

aircraft would cause a current to flow across the bridge that would be

amplified.

Method 2: QT or charge transfer methods. A high speed vibrating

contact charges the shell and then discharges it into a known

capacitance which is then measured.

Method 3: making the shell body part of a resonant circuit and

detecting frequency changes.

I can not find the precise reason for the abandonment of the work in

1940 however it probably relates to the 'fuhrer befehle' or fuhrer

directive that with few exceptions all work that could not be put into

production within 6 months were to be terminated to increase resources

for those that could (in order to support operation Barborosa). It

was at this time that the Germans also abandoned their magnetron and

microwave development teams and programs. Many programs suffered

severely due to this; something that was to have far reaching

consequences for the German war effort.

What would have happened if the proximity fuse was not abandoned in

1940 but development continued such that it entered service in 1943?

Germany had a wide range of proximity fuses under development and/or

testing in the last year of the war:

Code Names & Descriptions:

BAD, Acoustic, under Graf Zeppelin Institute

ELKU (Elektro-Akoustic), and applied to PAPLITZ

FUCHS, Radio by AEG Berlin, intended for Hs-117, Hs-298, and other

missiles

ISEGRIMM, Electromagnetic by Orlich Institute of Danzig.

KAKADU, Radio by Donaulandische GmbH of Vienna. 3,000 were produced for

the Hs-293- used Doppler effect.

KRANICH, Acoustic by Ruhrstahl AG of Brackwerde. Highly rated German

proximity fuse.

KUGELBLITZ, Radio by Patent Verwertungs Gesellschaft of Salzvurg.

Developed for the Rhinetocktor missile. Used Doppler-shift effect.

KUHGLOCKE, Electrostatic by Rhinemetall-Borsig. Intended for missiles.

Prototypes only.

KUHGLOCKEN, Smaller version designed for AA shells.

LOTTE, Infrared for an unspecified missile- abandoned.

MARABU, Radio by Siemens-Halske under sub-contract of Rheinmetall AG.

Designed for the Hs-117, Hs-298, Rheintocktor and Wasserfall missiles.

Firing trials.

MARDER, Radio by Orlich Institute of Danzig.

MEISE, Acoustic by Neumann & Borm of Berlin.

PAPLITZ, Infrared by Elektro Akoustic Institute at Namslau then at

Kiel. A.K.A. "ELKU". Developed for Hs-117 and Wasserfall. Test firings.

PINSCHER, Radio by Orlich Institute of Danzig. Five prototypes.

PISTOLE, Photo-Electric, this project was incorporated into

WASSERMAUS.

ROULETTE, Infrared by Brickmann of Gera.

STIMMGABEL, Acoustic by the Graf Zeppelin Institute. Developed for

parachute-retarded bomb dropped over Allied bomber streams. Tested.

TRICHTER, Radio by Blaupunkt. Field tested.

WASSERMAUS, Photo-Electric, developed for the Wasserfall missile.

WIESEL, Radio by Orlich Institute of Danzig.

ZUNDER-19, Developed for 250kg bomb by Rheinmetall-Borsig. Started

1937. Cancelled 1943. Work continued into 1944.

Rob

I've snipped out the irrelevant "me too!" posts.

I haven't sanity checked the first post, but at a quick glance it seems to conform to the typical long-on-rhetoric, short-on-verifable-detail genre, and be posted by someone belonging to the "German design on serviette = the leetness" school.

Edit: he references Igor "Die Glocke" Witkowski. 'nuff said.

[Affentitten]

Oh. Bad luck - sorry to hear that.

Well, back to worrying sheep for you then.

The Mrs is actually still pursuing other jobs in Europe. Just not with Roche. She has an interview with IG Farben next week. At their Fliegendeuntertasse Stinktierwerke.

[Stalins Organ]

Jon looks like yuo missed my edited post sorry - I saw some "it's german so it must be better" stuff too.

But the Germans were certainly working on various prox fuses for their AA missiles as per my other links above.

[Affentitten]

the "German design on serviette = the leetness" school.

Yeah that's the problem I always have the Luft 46 bozos. So the Horten borthers got pissed one night and drew up some concepts. And that becomes "Germany successfully developed...."

Likewise testing something does not become "Germany produced...."

[Stalins Organ]

Oh look - a report on a Japanese photo-electric prox fuse for bombs - clever folks with electronics those heavenly sons of nippon!

[John Kettler]

Pak_43,

The only differences between what I gave and footnote 7 on pages 165-166 of the INTERCEPT UFO copy I own are the German names were in italics, I couldn't figure out at that wee hour how to do the umlaut, and I didn't put the report no. in this format, which came after the title ( Report No. XXV-2 , London, H.M.S.O., 1946) Other than that, and it didn't seem necessary at the time, I already gave you what you say I didn't.

In no way am I seeking to cause you to waste time or money, and I do apologize for my lack of familiarity with your National Archives, let alone properly running its interface. I have, unfortunately, not had the pleasure of ever visiting the U.K. and try not to hate my brother who lived some years in Shrewsbury and got to go to all the great grog sites (IWM, Duxford, Tower of London, H.M.S. Victory, H.M.S. Belfast, H.M.S. Warrior, Hadrian's Wall, etc., before his assignment to sort out Inland Revenue's computer systems was done and brought him back to the States

Pak_43,

Apologies for any inadvertent confusion, but I'm navigating thoroughly unfamiliar ground at the (U.K.) National Archives, dealing with an apparently very large series of reports, for which the user hostile to me interface doesn't provide much help. Spent over half an hour simply trying to get a list of, for example CIOS and BIOS Reports 1-59, but all I get is that there is such a file, with Open Access, but no list of even the titles of the 59 reports. I wanted to give you a link to the CIOS report XXV-2 on the Luftfahrtforschungsanstalt "Hermann Goring," Volkenrode, Brunswick (apologies on missing umlaut for Goering), SNIP

SNIP

Stalin's Organist,

Maybe you'll consider this more helpful and credible. From the United States Navy Technical Mission To Japan, please see USNTMJ-200E-0320-0343 Report No. 0-18.pdf which covers Japanese Ordnance Fuzes. See particularly pages 10-14 in the original and bear in mind while reading that section that the Japanese proved excellent nonadmitters to and deniers of things they wished to keep concealed. Besides, if the VT Fuze was Top Secret here, imagine the even more stringent security there. These, after all, are the people who built a superbattleship in secret, behind a high brick wall topped with bamboo screens!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Stalins Organ]

You forgot to mention page 9 of that document where they list the types of "influence or proximity fuses":

1/ Acoustic

2/ Photo-electric

3/ mother qand daughter bomb

4/ Radio - a bomb fuse to be actuated by remote control when dropped into an a/c formation from a higher flying aircraft - the circuit diagram found being cnosidered complicated, and an "illogical method of accomplishing the purpose"

the section you quote also notes that most of these were theoretical, and when questioned about use of radio fuses in artillery the Japanese were completley ignorant of any such use or research into it, and the idea inherently impractical for use in artillery due to the shock of firing - a problem the allies had to spend massive amount of effort on getting around.

And here's the link to that document, which states right at the start that the Japs designed fuses along "sound principles", but hadn't produced anything outstanding in the way of fuzes - including all those mentioned above!

I have no idea why you think the ability to hide the Yamamoto is at all relevant -that occcured when Japan was a soveriegn state and could keep out foreigners much more effectivel y than when it had allied investigators crawling all over it with legal unfettered access to anything and everything.

That you mention it at all speaks to your mindset - which is always to throw up as much "information" as possible that shows any aspect of secrecy, whether connected to the subject under discussion or not. Sadly it is human nature that some of it will stick in the minds of those insufficiently aware or critical of such a shoddy tactic.

[John Kettler]

Stalin's Organist,

I had a longer reply, but it got eaten (see Glitch thread http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=93080 for details). Briefly, the referenced report says "...close questioning...brought forth only professions of ignorance..." Were I the interrogating officer, absent reams of evidence to the contrary, I would give such "professions" exactly the same credibility I'd give a kid who's obviously raided the cookie jar after being told not to do so and is now adamantly denying the cookie raid. In fact, I'd start an all-out hunt for whatever was being so vociferously denied. The Japanese did the exact same thing regarding Unit 731 and their two competing Genzai Bakudan projects, and all three clearly existed, however much you may wish to debate whether a successful atomic test occurred in the case of the IJN effort.

The Japanese were manic about secrecy, to the point of clearing the streets when the Yamato was launched and arresting Japanese citizens who dawdled to watch the launch. Time and again Spurr is on about this Japanese secrecy mania. I said what I said to provide a context in which to view the Japanese Ordnance Fuze report, not to throw up a smokescreen. Also, given that Spurr, an old Asia hand who fought against the Japanese in the Royal Indian Navy, then came to Japan in 1952 as a correspondent for the London DAILY EXPRESS, during which he was given unprecedented access by both the U.S. Navy and Japanese sources, including being able to interview such important surviving figures as Captain Tameichi Hara, skipper of the antiaircraft cruiser Yahagi which was Yamato's principal escort and author of the excellent JAPANESE DESTROYER CAPTAIN, I deem it wise to pay attention when he talks of "the new proximity fuse shells" and of the Yahagi's gunnery officer's bugging supply officers about them in the midst of a crash effort to prepare for sea on page 16 of the trade paperback edition. In that kind of crunch, we must presume such a shell existed, else why ask for it? And I suspect Hara is the source of the information on this previously unknown to me Japanese weapon. Unfortunately, Spurr didn't bother with footnotes, so while it makes sense, it's still speculation at this point regarding Hara as the likely source.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Affentitten]

In June, 1944, the Japanese bombed an airbase on recently captured Saipan, with a single1700 pound proximity bomb, which exploded 35 feet above the airfield, destroying or damaging scores of parked B-29s, (the most advanced bomber of the time),

Considering the first B-29s didn't arrive on Saipan until mid-October http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-29_Superfortress#New_Marianas_Islands_air_bases that's one amazing weapon.

Besides which, being the "most advanced bomber of the time" isn't much of a help if you're parked on the apron and someone drops 1700 lb of HE on you. An F-22 would fare similarly poorly. I seriously doubt that "scores" (which would indicate say 60-100 aircraft) were hit by a single blast, given that (a) there wasn't that many operating off the single airfield on Saipan and ( the size and dispersal of the aircraft. JonS could probably work out a blast radius though, as it involves numbers, which are my nemesis.

[Stalins Organ]

John before you can put something liek a VT fuse into a shell you have to do a couple of things:

1/ have a VT type fuse - there is no evidence the Japanese had one

2/ be able to make shock resistant valves to run it - there is, AFAIK, no evidence the Japanese had any programme to make such components, which were difficult to develop and required extensive testing.

Given that no evidence of either 1 or 2 was ever found in Japan the simplest and most likely explaination is that the Japanese simply were not working along those lines, and they "prefessed ignorance" because they WERE ignorant on that subject.

when someone "talks" of "the new xyz" it is probably quite unwise to assume that "xyz" existed unless there is corroborating evidence. Who knows whether that conversation ever actually took place (the AA officer asking for such shells) in that manner - 7 years after the such a conversation might be the mis-remembering of someone wishing they had some of those new proximity fuses the Yankee imperialists were using, or simply wishing they had some sort of proximity fused shells at all.

To conclude the definite existance of an item from one such comment, reported years after the war, unfootnoted and unreferenced and contradicted by much better documented evidence seems quite foolish.

Looking around the 'net a bit more I found some info from ppl who have read the book and apparently Hara says that his ship actually LOADED lots of proximity fuses and "homing torpedoes". Homing torpedoes were known to have been under development (caution - it's a 65mb download - the very short section on homing torpedoes is on page 3 just after the title page) at some point, but that development was believed to have been abandoned, the torpedoes being used were electric ones so can only have been the Type 92 used by submarines, and there is no evidence of any production AFAIK. Given the absence of physical or other corroborating evidence for either type of Weapon developed by the Japanese, it is more likely that they have been mistranslated as one of the posters in the linked thread has suggested!

[JonS]

"JonS could probably work out a blast radius though, as it involves numbers, which are my nemesis."

It probably depends how you define 'damaged'. A Kettlerian definition would probably have all aircraft in the Western Pacific at the time (or at any time during the four months either side) 'damaged'. Even the definition of 'destroyed' is open to interpretation, so I've no intention of breaking out the calculator just yet.

Especially since there weren't any B-29s there at the time anyway, and we don't actually have any independant corroboration that the raid actually took place, let alone the specifics you'd need to do a meaningful calculation, like height, size, type, location, orientaion, etc.

[Stalins Organ]

There were a couple of Japanese air raids on Saipain on 7 december 1944 that destroyed B-29's - here - can't find any specific mention of a single large bomb tho - total 3 B29's were destroyed, 3 severely damaged and 20 lightly damaged.

this video purports to show a night raid that destroys some B24's and B29's in June 1944 according to the accompanying text - as far as I can se tho all the a/c are B29's - it doesn't seem to have a date on it & I don't get any sound.

[Affentitten]

It probably depends how you define 'damaged'.

Well, assuming the B-29s were pre-chambered...

[Minty]

Stalin's Organist, First time I have read this page. I just wanted to say a huge thank you for posting the link to the report of the type 3 japanese fuse. To properly understand how much I enjoyed it I have to tell you a bit about myself. I'm a Physicist / Optoelectronic specialist who works for an optics company in the US designing Laser and detectors. I also spent 3 years in japan and studied at Kyoto University. That and being a bit of a WW2 buff and my dad worked on missile and torpedo guidance system for the Royal Navy in the 70s. All in all that makes that one report about the single most perfect document I have ever seen, assuming it is real.

It is a similar principle to many Laser guided weapons used now but to make it with just a lamp, lens and simple photocell is extraordinary. Completely possible I might add just extraordinary. The circuits look real and plausible to me. I'm almost tempted to make one myself just to see if it would work (just the lamp/detector part mind you not the 500Kg part) . The problem would be getting the parts, vacuum amplifiers and those crude photocells just aren't made any more, I'd have to use off the shelf modern components and try and derate them to simulate the lower current generated which would kind of spoil the point of the exercise.

Which brings me to a simple point about believing UFO/ super soldier/ Nazi Yeti / Crazy WW2 tech /flying saucers stories. I am much more inclined to believe that 70 years ago certain technologies could have been developed which were then perfected many years later. Eg Japanese optical proximity switch , German phosphorous nightvision, Air to Air missiles etc These would have been very crude and need another 10 to 20 years to become effective such as the V2 would be eventually. But I just can't believe any attempt where some technology then was generations ahead of anything we have now eg flying discs , super soldier drugs or sprays that stop engines instantly. Someone would have developed them further during the cold war. If we don't see it today then sorry folks it simply is science fiction in 1944.

thank you again

[Pak_43]

The only differences between what I gave and footnote 7 on pages 165-166 of the INTERCEPT UFO copy I own are the German names were in italics, I couldn't figure out at that wee hour how to do the umlaut, and I didn't put the report no. in this format, which came after the title ( Report No. XXV-2 , London, H.M.S.O., 1946) Other than that, and it didn't seem necessary at the time, I already gave you what you say I didn't.

So just so I'm sure I'm on the right track...

Vesco's INTERCEPT UFO and later MAN MADE UFO 1945-1990 (revised edition for sake of info currency) by Vesco and Childress

Has a reference relating to German research into:

The citation deals with German work on an engine killing gas mixture, as described in my reply to Thomm. This development is one of the key weapon technologies associated with what is properly known in formerly Top Secret intel files as the Phoo Bomb, more commonly known as the Foo Fighter.

And the CIOS report in the National Archives of the UK with reference

CIOS report XXV-2 on the Luftfahrtforschungsanstalt "Hermann Goring," Volkenrode, Brunswick

is the reference cited as support for this case?

So if I look up this report I will find reference to German investigations into an engine killing gas mixture?

Am I correct in assuming I will find no reference to any German UFO experiments, "Kugelblitz's", "Phoo Bombs" or "Foo Fighters?" Or will this report make a link between research into an engine killing gas mixture and "Phoo Bomb" / "Foo Fighters" development...

[Thomm]

If we don't see it today then sorry folks it simply is science fiction in 1944.

We don't see it today, because those are deep black projects.

Best regards,

Thomm

[dieseltaylor]

Funnily enough the New Scientist is writing of things that were poopoohed at the time. Perhaps the most unknown was the discovery of bacteria as the cause of gastric ulcers which ran into a storm of opposition when proposed in scientific papers in 1980's and was resolved around 1985. Amusing to think of the two long-forgotten German scientista who had suggested it in 1875.

Do not take this as support for any ideas that may have been floated in this thread because I have actually read very little of it. I just wanted to make the point that just because something is not current or disappears it does not mean it was wrong.

[Affentitten]

Do not take this as support for any ideas that may have been floated in this thread because I have actually read very little of it. I just wanted to make the point that just because something is not current or disappears it does not mean it was wrong.

Yes mate, though there is a difference between postulating an idea and it going out of currency for lack of evidence before being confirmed decades later....and the case we are talking about here, which is a few wild theories before the almost immediate roll out of a mach 25 UFO that disappears off to Antractica and remains secret ever since.

[Michael Emrys]

Given the sometime trickiness of translating from Japanese into English (and here I am reliant on the testimony of those who are familiar with the problem as I am not), I would be extremely cautious about drawing dramatic conclusions from postwar interrogations. For instance, references to "proximity fuses" may not mean precisely the kind of devices that we call by that name. It may have been no more than an attempt to render into English a Japanese term for an item operating on different principles.

Michael

[Blackhorse]

Given the sometime trickiness of translating from Japanese into English (and here I am reliant on the testimony of those who are familiar with the problem as I am not), I would be extremely cautious about drawing dramatic conclusions from postwar interrogations. For instance, references to "proximity fuses" may not mean precisely the kind of devices that we call by that name. It may have been no more than an attempt to render into English a Japanese term for an item operating on different principles.

Michael

Trickiness translating Japanese??

http://www.engrish.com//wp-content/uploads/2010/07/cross-the-dateline.jpg