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Other Wars/Conflicts for CM?


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What other post-WWII conflicts (real or hypothetical) due you think would work well for the Combat Mission/Shock Force?

I have already suggested "Chechnya" in another thread. Vietnam might be interesting as well. As for hypothetical scenarios, Russia vrs. China might be fun as would Nato vrs. Iran

Any thoughts?

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My wishlist:

1. 1956 Arab-Israeli War

2. 1973 Yom Kippur War

3. Vietnam - French Module

4. Vietnam - USA, early and late modules with a final Tet module

5. South African Border War : 1966-1989 - this conflict had conventional and coin operations.

6. First Gulf War

7. Falklands, yes please !!!

8. Malayan emergency - maybe not enough for a game there but this is a wishlist !

9. Korea

10. Iran-Iraq War

11. Balkan Wars 1990-??

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In my humble opinion I think that, after CMSF and CMA another heavily asimmetric conflict will be a "game" too far for CMx2! I think that CM excels at reproducing mechanized combat, better than guerrilla or infantry-heavy scenarios.

My suggestion would be a Central-European Cold War game (1983 could be the right date... it was the war scare year). I know that probably, as BFC said many times, Cold War ain't gonna happen but, for sure, it would be more interesting than a SF2 set in present day Europe (exactly who would fight, why and where?).

Speaking about actual conflicts, for the above mentioned reasons, I'd prefer the Arab-Israeli wars to Chechenia, Vietnam or the Falklands. And, instead of going for the 1956, 1967 or 1973 wars, I'd vote for a Lebanon '82 game (that could also use a lot of CM:SF terrain/units).

My 2 eurocents! :)

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First Gulf War could be interesting. The two gulf wars were pretty much the template for CMSF when it comes down to it, so it wouldn't be very hard to put out a Iraq vs Coalition game, much of the equipment is the same, it would just need some TO&E and some slightly altered models and textures. OTOH there weren't that many real set-piece battles in GW1, and virtually none in GW2

Fulda gap would be pretty stupid on a 2kmx2km tactical map. The soviet invasion scenario would be massive and more suited to a larger operational scale game than something at CM level.

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First Gulf War could be interesting. The two gulf wars were pretty much the template for CMSF when it comes down to it, so it wouldn't be very hard to put out a Iraq vs Coalition game, much of the equipment is the same, it would just need some TO&E and some slightly altered models and textures. OTOH there weren't that many real set-piece battles in GW1, and virtually none in GW2

Fulda gap would be pretty stupid on a 2kmx2km tactical map. The soviet invasion scenario would be massive and more suited to a larger operational scale game than something at CM level.

My first scenario, Death on the Sand, is a Gulf War scenario. It's a real blood bath, but you get the very long ranges for the tanks to play with. Just add Desert Storm style uniforms (mod is already made) and have at it!

Mord:

Vietnam would be fun, but BFC has repeatedly said NO to that one. :(

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In my humble opinion I think that, after CMSF and CMA another heavily asimmetric conflict will be a "game" too far for CMx2! I think that CM excels at reproducing mechanized combat, better than guerrilla or infantry-heavy scenarios.

While I agree CM always did the vehicle combat quite well, I disagree about the infantry. I think that despite its faults, CM's infantry remains one of the best simulated infantry in a tactical game like this.

I also think people will be surprised just how symmetrical the combat in Soviet Afghanistan can be. The Mujihadeen were pretty well organised as a conventional force, and the Soviets certainly weren't up to the level of modern US forces. It's a lot more like a CMSF Red vs Red and I think the game might just surprise people with just how much fun it is.

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Mad crazy wars not many have heard about, like chechen wars or...

Abkhazia: Untold War Story:

http://fora.tv/2008/02/06/Abkhazia_Untold_War_Story

Immortal Fortress:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kuh8n_M0Kg

Check out some of these varied and interesting battles/operations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizlyar-Pervomayskoye_hostage_crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(November_1994)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatoy_ambush

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Height_776

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Komsomolskoye

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(August_1996)

Close up and personal in modern settings. Technological superiority vs heart/warrior culture/fanatacism.

Fulda gaps or China vs Russia, no fun tactically. Im not sure most people have thought these trough. Bigger and grander is not necessarily better.

I remember the glory days of Steel Panther fulda gaps scenarios; basically a shooting gallery.

Operational scale games of these settings? Sure.

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Mord:

Vietnam would be fun, but BFC has repeatedly said NO to that one. :(

I believe Steve stated a couple times that they wouldn't rule out a third party developer doing it if one came along...if we have a Soviet Afghanistan game, who knows? There could be hope. I'd love to see it...especially at CM's level...only thing I ever saw that came close was a mod of Close Combat and that only made me wish for something better. Outside of that, the only decent Nam game I've played was Seal Team and that was like 96 or so, and was more a tactical FPS hybrid.

Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope somebody will take up the mantle!

Mord.

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For me, the real joy of CMSF is the mission editor and Red vs. Red scenarios. I find them the most fun since there is no real advantage to either side. I like to use the Syrian Army and Airborne/SF units against large numbers of irregulars to simulate something close to todays INA and ANA forces against the Taliban and other insurgent forces. It really puts a lump in your throat when your T-72 has to take on T-62's and static T-55/54B and you know you may not win the battle through superior firepower, tactics are a must. Although, the T-90 and super upgraded T-72 can wreck and M1 in certain conditions, the M1 normally gets the best of the encounter. And the well trained, motivated, and supported US Army and US Marine Corps soldier is way more then a match for his adversaries. The RvR really gets my heart pumping, so it's pretty much all I play now, except when I really want to play with the US uber toys to get the frustration RvR can bring on out of my system. ;)

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Personally I would go for a Korea (50's) one. It would be similar to the WWII ones, but you would have all the late war toys to play with. Kind of WWII 1.5 if you will.

For the US, sure, but for the Communists? T-34/85, and that's about all of it. It just doesn't sound like a very interesting setting for a tactical wargame.

Addendum: a 1955 NATO vs. Warsaw Pact slug out in Europe might be interesting, though. T-54's vs. Conquerors, that kind of stuff.

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@" Schmoly War"

Glad to see someone else is up on their Chechen War history. I agree and think both Chechen Wars would make an excellent follow up to Afghanistan.

You could easily include Abkhazia & Georgia scenarios in the same game (as well as the invasion of Daghastan).

The Caucuses region is full of good gaming potential!

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@Insurgent

Probably too soon for russian developers to start making games about the Caucasus region.

Wikipedia articles in russian (translated) give widely different casaulty figures than the official english one.

Ever read up on "Bear went over the mountain"? Just about every single engagements in the book were won by the russians. I think thats how they approach this game as well; a couple of glorious scenarios like Operation Storm 333.

Most of the russian propaganda post chechen wars is how they managed to hunt down the main rebel leaders, and almost nothing from the how the main army fared. The catastrophic debacle that was "Hill 776" was as a source said: "enshrined in heroic myth".

I think TOAW was the only game to include the chechen war (excluding the Alpha game):

http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/scenarii/display_scenario.php?Id=74

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Any era in which long range accurate weapons, ATGM's etc. are NOT present would make an xnt addition. (Hence Afghanistan could be terrific.)

Because of CMSF's relatively small maps so many weapons systems are firing at essentially point blank range. It's the almost 100% accurate and frighteningly lethal weapons that make CMSF frustrating and maybe too hard for average players (non asperger people who have lives etc).

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1984: Soviet Invasion of West Germany. Combat Mission:Fulda Gap. I'd buy that.

My military wet dream! Chieftains, M60s, Sheridans, early Abrams and Leo IIs facing off against T72, T80 etc...

Just need to find a plausible excuse for the non-use of NBC weapons.

Edit to add: yeah a post war game would also make my juices run: Centurions vs T54s etc

Why hasn't a CM-like game come out for these sorts of scenarios? I'm sure with European translations the market would be big enough to sustain it.

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