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Airsupport - how is it represented?

Peerke

By Peerke
in Combat Mission Afghanistan

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MeatEtr Senior Member

MeatEtr

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Been playing with CM WWII based first games several years ago therefore I'm wondering whether and how air support and particularly helicopters will be reflected in this modern arena based game.

Wow, this first post comes 10+ years after forum registration. Surely this must be a new record. What took you so long? :D

As for air support, surely it will be the same as in CMx1 and CMSF. No real visible chopper flying around, just the armament.

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Elmar Bijlsma Senior Member

Elmar Bijlsma

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That's some lurking skill you have there, Peerke.

I'd welcome you to the forum but I'm not sure I should, you having been here longer then I. ;)

I expect that air support will be the same as in CMSF. As in: bombs, missiles, rockets and gunfire will enter the map from unseen aircraft.

AA assets are likely limited to their ground combat usage.

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MikeyD Senior Member

MikeyD

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A description for someone who hasn't played CMSF.

'Somebody' calls in air support (it all depends on which side you're playing who has rights). You choose between point target and area target, hvy/medium/light, and you can insert a time delay (that's rarely used).

The editor comes with a long list of aircraft types and loadouts. That means you're at the mercy of the scenario designer. You may be facing oncoming tanks but if the designer put in a green pilot flying poor equipment with an anti-personnel loadout then you're basically skewered. That pilots either going to frag the good guy or expend his ordnance on an abandoned car. ;) BUT if the designer gives you a crack Apache Longbow (or Hind E, I suppose, in this game) its like the finger of God smiting your foes for you.

An awkward thing about CMSF is you've got as much info on circling aircraft loadout as your average infantry platoon - namely none (besides what can be gleened from the manual). For U.S. equipment that's not so hard to guess, but I'd need a major crib sheet to figure out Russian aircraft loadouts!

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MeatEtr Senior Member

MeatEtr

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In CMx1 games any ground units with AA capabilities would fire up at attacking aircraft, this feature is not included in CM:SF, probably because there are no dedicated AA units. It would be nice to see this again in CM:A or CM:N. Stinger armed mujahideen?

I agree, now that we have AA assets on the ground, will they fire up at enemy aircraft is a valid question. I don't see why they shouldn't.

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bodkin Senior Member

bodkin

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I agree, now that we have AA assets on the ground, will they fire up at enemy aircraft is a valid question. I don't see why they shouldn't.

Athough I don't think the mujahideen had any aircraft so it would have to be the blue side using CIA supplied Stingers or whatever else they used against Hinds.

In CM:SF it would have been good to see some of the regular Syrian forces using there Dshk's against Blue force choppers. Although the engagement distances used by Apache crews would probably mean it wasn't worth including.

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stoex Senior Member

stoex

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Peerke actually beat the 'posts per day' algorithm with his amazing perseverance in lurking:

Having been a forum member for 3774 days by my calculation, he can write another 36 or 37 posts (depending on rounding and how many days it takes him to do so) before he hits 0.01 posts per day. That's IF he ever posts again! :D

Cheers, Peerke! Way to beat the system!

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gibsonm Senior Member

gibsonm

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In CMx1 games any ground units with AA capabilities would fire up at attacking aircraft, this feature is not included in CM:SF, probably because there are no dedicated AA units. It would be nice to see this again in CM:A or CM:N. Stinger armed mujahideen?

Well the ZSU 23/4 is a dedicated air defence weapon too you know. :)

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gibsonm Senior Member

gibsonm

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In CM:SF it would have been good to see some of the regular Syrian forces using there Dshk's against Blue force choppers. Although the engagement distances used by Apache crews would probably mean it wasn't worth including.

Sure but it not just the intended target that you need to worry about.

Helo's tanding off X km from their target to engage with Hellfire, etc. still need to take into account the air defence assets closer in that aren't the target but are in range of the helo's.

So for example, if you are hovering over urban terrain shooting at the tank PL in open ground a couple of grid squares away you still need to be concerned about the AK's firing at you from the roof below or the Dshk armed technical in the nearby alley.

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MikeyD Senior Member

MikeyD

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Ah, I just thought. With few exceptions CMSF aircraft are dropping nothing but precision weapons (gravity bombs were stripped out around patch v1.06?). Also, only dedicated mudfighters were given the ability to straff (Brit Harrier lacks cannons entirely!). That means old Soviet ground attack aircraft will be a whole different experience for us! What's available for the Soviets? (opening Google in a seperate window as I type) SU-24, SU-25, SU-22, MiG-23(?). Not quite the same as an F15 dropping JDAM from 15 thousand feet.

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goodwood Senior Member

goodwood

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I like the current air support thingy. The scenario where the Brits have to rescue hostages is an excellent example on how useful a/c and smart bombs are, eg in this scenario, my air controller gets the harrier and helo dudes to take out all surrounding buildings. before assaulting the compound. A word of advice, don't get your assault teams too close, I have experienced friendly fire. a fun scenario

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LongLeftFlank Senior Member

LongLeftFlank

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Ah, I just thought. With few exceptions CMSF aircraft are dropping nothing but precision weapons (gravity bombs were stripped out around patch v1.06?). Also, only dedicated mudfighters were given the ability to straff (Brit Harrier lacks cannons entirely!). That means old Soviet ground attack aircraft will be a whole different experience for us! What's available for the Soviets? (opening Google in a seperate window as I type) SU-24, SU-25, SU-22, MiG-23(?). Not quite the same as an F15 dropping JDAM from 15 thousand feet.

Napalm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Ryujin Senior Member

Ryujin

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Ah, I just thought. With few exceptions CMSF aircraft are dropping nothing but precision weapons (gravity bombs were stripped out around patch v1.06?). Also, only dedicated mudfighters were given the ability to straff (Brit Harrier lacks cannons entirely!). That means old Soviet ground attack aircraft will be a whole different experience for us! What's available for the Soviets? (opening Google in a seperate window as I type) SU-24, SU-25, SU-22, MiG-23(?). Not quite the same as an F15 dropping JDAM from 15 thousand feet.

Well, you'll have lots of unguided rockets and bombs (they really need to add cluster bombs to CM one of these days).

It'll be very very different from the usual BLUFOR CAS. For example Hinds aren't really standoff AT choppers like the Apaches/cobras. They carry more ordinance, gun pods, rockets, bomb, fuel air explosives (got quiet a reputation in Afghanistan), 4 ATGMs on the wing tips (I think more can be mounted on the inner pylons too), and a .50 cal minigun nose turret or fixed twin 30mm (long, not Apache style 30mm short) depending on the model. Lots of strafing at relativly short range with raw firepower. Plus they can carry additional ammo in the cargo area, land away from the fighting when safe, self rearm, and get back in the fight. Not to mention they're quite hard to kill with ground fire short of RPGs or stingers and ever harder to kill when they started getting flare launchers. Very much up close and messy compared to the CMSF CAS. In general I think Soviet CAS will often be more of an area weapon than surgical removal of offending units/buildings.

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gibsonm Senior Member

gibsonm

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Well it means what it says.

The CIA either directly or via some proxies supplied them with Stingers and other weapons to help them in their war against the Soviets.

Of course US Foreign Policy being as far sighted as it is, they didn't realise that the "enemy of my enemy" now would become more simply "my enemy" a couple of decades later.

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